Red Bull boycott

[base283 0]

To Zennie and Tree
First I want to state that I do not work for Redbull. So there aint spin for what I write about them.
RedBull takes care of their athletes and others. One of my friends who happened to be employed by RB came down with a rare, sudden life threatening malady, RB got him the best medical possible and probaly saved his life. RB provides emergency teams for the hi risk stuff. The norm is to have an onsite Doctor. RB takes care of their athletes. The chief of RB has an established fund for stuntmen/women (and their families) who are injured/killed in their profession. Who else is doing that? Before you boycott them, it would be clever to know what they have achieved and what they add to the “extreme” community. Some want to use Felix as a scapegoat for the world´s tallest bridge burning. Get a life, It was jumped the following weekend, multiple arrests and people are still jumping there. Many are quick to criticize the media when the media says not what the ego wants to hear, but jump on the bandwagon if it fits their ego as soon as possible because they are jealous. The media´s coverage sux equally if it is what you don´t want to hear or do want to hear Be fair and check out the facts before the media´s distortion. If you jump with video then you have no bizness ranting on publicized jumps IMHO. I ask you guys to be fair. On the other hand (besides having other fingers), I do understand consternation about burning legal sites, but mostly this comes from bounces nowadays. Red Bull has put BASE in the public eye so that now the public thinks about it being only crazy instead of illegal and crazy.. in retro from before where few had ever heard of the sport.

If you anti “more publicized than me” jealous individuals want to compete and see who is the best, then organize a competition. Red Bull has a lot of power in organizing competitions in case you haven´t noticed. Put up! Or take some cheese.
The choice is yours. Iffin I had Zennie´s or Tree´s attitude I would take them (RedBull sponsored) on rather than bitch about it. But what do I know?
Take care
Space
Still waiting for 428 to respond to my points. Are you afraid?

[TomAiello 25]

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...burning legal sites, but mostly this comes from bounces nowadays.

I disagree. Here in Twin Falls, the general population is more concerned with our disregard for law enforcement than for injuries we do to ourselves. When someone is injured (or killed) here, the general response is sympathetic. When someone is seen as disregarding the police, the response if generally negative.

Culture varies. Your experience on legal sites in Europe may be pointing you in the wrong direction as far as site preservation in Idaho. Idaho is a very "Cowboy Conservative" kind of place. Get hurt, and folks pitch in to help you. Snipe at the sherrif, and folks band together into a posse to string you up.

Obviously you have more knowledge about Switzerland than I do, but I had the impression that landing on the long grass was a big issue for the locals there, too.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 25]

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RB provides emergency teams for the hi risk stuff. The norm is to have an onsite Doctor.

Huh? I must have totally missed Red Bull providing anything like that at Bridge Day, when they sponsored it. And they certainly haven't had any medical staff out here when their sponsored athletes are jumping.

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RB takes care of their athletes.

I don't think that's the issue. The issue is whether Red Bull jumpers take care of BASE. And whether Red Bull sponsorship actually encourages them not to.

It's possible that RB Europe is acting differently than RB USA, but I don't have any specifics as far as Europe.

Personally, I still like the GoFast! approach better. They open objects and hold invitational events where a ton of people get to have fun. Red Bull appears to mostly want to get their sponsored jumpers off stuff for their own publicity. In my opinion, GoFast! is _far_ better for our sport (I'm talking corporate entities here, not energy drinks).

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Faber 0]

Hey Space
Perhaps RB then should start to think further about promoting their stuff than they do now..

Its clear to evryone that most of thouse that has been RB sponcored have also done some damegede to their sports by the action they have done...

IF RB made sure that these stuntmen/women would be abel to do their stunts legal and that way not hurting anyone,im sure evrybody would be the oppersit,and be habby and proud about them.But asking people to breaking the law and harm the sport,that is only to make their drink look cooler,which it aint in the eys to the states/countryes and also not the people that love this sport...

Felix could help him self,stand up at the boards and explain but he dont.
I never meet Felix and i probaly never will,but to vitness one thing after the other from 1 person that dont even borther to explain himself,i can only get angry at him..And i do belve moste people out there feel the same way..

If you want to be a public person you should also be abel to get some flames and not only picking the fruit.

That i dont like the taste of RB anyway dosnt mean anything to my point of weiv,this is just thourghts from a guy who have looked at these RB and Felix posts fror the last 3 years...And i dont doubt that RB also make some good things aswell..

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[base283 0]

I am not aware of Red Bull sponsoring Bridge Day. Can you enlighten me? I think there is a miscommunication here.
take care,
space

[base283 0]

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RB takes care of their athletes.
I don't think that's the issue. The issue is whether Red Bull jumpers take care of BASE. And whether Red Bull sponsorship actually encourages them not to.

Valid concern. Petronas is open. who was the first to jump it and therefore deem it possible for competitions to the officials.

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It's possible that RB Europe is acting differently than RB USA, but I don't have any specifics as far as Europe.

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Personally, I still like the GoFast! approach better. They open objects and hold invitational events where a ton of people get to have fun. Red Bull appears to mostly want to get their sponsored jumpers off stuff for their own publicity. In my opinion, GoFast! is _far_ better for our sport (I'm talking corporate entities here, not energy drinks).

If the jealous jumpers would get off their ass and quit eating cheese and challenge the Red Bull Athletes at a competion, then what? Best BASEr wins!

I think it is unfortunate that FB has to travel around the world to promote RB with BS jumps to promote RB in the said country. But that is the job he has accepted.
take care,
space

[base283 0]

Hi Faber,
I don´t beleive that Felix has posted in the last 5 yrs. Let me know if he has please. When he did try to explain, he got ripped a new asshole. so he doesn´t post as far as I know.

Felix/RB has brought to the Publics attention BASE more than any other factor if I am not mistaken. whether this is good or bad is an individual decision.

BASE is actually being perceived as a sport now and more acceptably legally due to the publicity and the skills of such as DW, JC, SM, and numerous national associations.
I still disagree with him not getting in touch with the locals.

Take care,
space

[Zenister 0]

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Felix/RB has brought to the Publics attention BASE more than any other factor if I am not mistaken. whether this is good or bad is an individual decision.

BASE is actually being perceived as a sport now and more acceptably legally due to the publicity and the skills of such as DW, JC, SM, and numerous national associations.
I still disagree with him not getting in touch with the locals.

if their actions for publicity's sake make it harder for 'average' BASE jumpers to access any object it is a BAD thing...does the public really need to know what, where, when you do what you do?

Why?
Oh yea some people want to live the ‘rockstar’ lifestyle.
Do you jump for yourself or for the money and fame?

honestly their drink tastes like crap and the publicity they gain seems to do very little to actually help BASE (or skydiving for that matter) and more to line their corporate coffers by trying to show wuffos how ‘extreme’ they can be simply by drinking a sports drink. I for one, refuse to buy, drink or the stuff or support the corporation that employs such tactics…

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Treejumps 0]

Hey Space,

How's it going. I really don't care how RB treats its sponsored athletes, or if it pays for insurance for its employees (mandatory in EUrope), or if it has ambulances standing by. I also don't really think that publicity has done anything all that positive for BASE, of which 80 percent is and always will be illegal.

I have already said that I am jealous about having sombody pay my way for base adventures, that is not at question. I do not care to support a company who's sponsored athletes take the attitude that because they are sponsored they do not have to follow basic base ethics. Frankly, if sombody sees you do it (like say, if you tke television crews to london and then jump a bridge at rush hour, and then put it on TV) that is bad. It is only done for self ego stroking, and to pay back the sponsor for the trip and stiepend. I see that type of stunt as a whoring out of base for personal interests. On the other hand, going to a legal site like Baffin and getting to jump it with helos and getting great video, that seems OK. They get footage, jumpers get jumps, and maybe a site is further opened for all. But jumping illegal sites like that bridge in france, Rio CHrist, etc, and then publisizing it? That simply can never be justified, and yes I think Felix is a punk ass bitch for doing exactly that. Just my opinion, and I'm willing to stand behind it, and back it up. If I see that sort of thing happening, and I have the opportunity, I will provide BASE ethics re-habilitation.

Cya,

Tree

[Skinflicka 0]

Since I'm the last one to have made an anti-RB comment (which incidentally was just goofin' intended to wind up Tree) I guess I'll enter the fray.

1) The fact that RB "looks after" it's athletes is neither unusual nor impressive. Hell, my company is shit but it's still provides medical protection. This is a pre-requisite for employment in my mind not a bonus.

B) When Yamaha found out Jeff Emig has tested +ve for Smoking weed they dropped him like a brick. Yamaha, a key player in the freeriding / freestyle scene are a manufacturer of performance equipment for use in a very extreme sport. They still decided that Jeff's faux pas (which in some peoples eyes gives credability to the bad-ass, extreme athlete aura) gave a negative impact to their reputation. This is a pretty typical response from a large company since it is a contravention of their ethics policy. RB is a multi-national but appears to have misplaced their code of ethics (business AND BASE ethics).

13) I somehow doubt (and this is purely personal opinion based on anecdotal info and media news) that either RB or FB have the spirit of BASE at the forefront of their minds when planning their activities. RB uses sports to sell drinks. FB uses RB to finance his play time. That's about as shallow as it gets. This is not worse or better than any other company and what FB does is really no worse than many other BASE jumpers have done. However, Felix understands before hand that whether or not he gets busted, even if he gets away clean without anyone seeing (unlikely given his mid day jumps but whatever...) that his exploits WILL be broadcast as entertainment. Many get caught in the act and reach the media in our little world. It usually has negative impacts and sometimes we are even fortunate that when things blow over and the dust settles, jumping can resume. Sometimes it's over for good. Object burned for ever. Rarely, I feel, does one of us intend and plan for this to happen for personal gain.

I like RB. Mixed with vodka it makes fantastic Loudmouth Soup. However, as a consumer I reserve the right to try to impress upon my friends and colleagues that I am displeased with the company that creates the stuff and for that reason it would mean something to me if, in support of my point of view, they would make a more informed choice of energy drink. They have the right to say "you mean less to me that my consumption of RB Mr Flicka - please be quiet while I enjoy this satisfying and tasty beverage which is made of ingredients derived from bovine testes". Fair enough?

You've touched on the ego thing. I'm kinda gonna leave that one alone. We all have them to some extent but we don't all allow ourselves to be led by them. Nuff said.

Finally, you are still the BASE Zen-Master General. I have great respect for that. You are standing up for your friend. I have enormous respect for that.

You don't, apparently, know Jack Schidt about the world of energy drinks, their marketing or the mechanisms of international business. I could give a rat's ass about that.

Hope to share an exit and a few laughs sometime,

Respectfully,

Glasshoppa'

$kin.

Prizes to anyone who gets to read my posts before Mr Aiello's son, Tom deletes them.

[Faber 0]

Space I do belive we genneral agree here

As Zennie says it can turn out bad some were.example im pretty sure that if any jumper ruin anything or make some media arround my area then im the one that gonna pay the price,as im the only one around here,and people know it but dont care aslong as it can be done in a sudden way.Let me point out that if any should ruin or even get chased off here whith out my knowlegede,and im going to pay the price,then i will find out who it were and turn them into the police to clear my name...

Call me a bitch but getting bad attention is one thing but ruin stuff for people(whith out them knowing about it),and let them pay the price is not a thing i will let happen here.

If im a part of the game.. well then its another case and i wouldnt turn any in,but then they also have given me the respect to let me know what happened around..

Its called respecting the locals,which we all must do to be sure that we can keep the objects we have.If not,expect the same shit your direction...

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[Zennie 0]

Space, you're missing my point. And you're being slightly disingenuous to say you're neutral. You're very close friends with at least one RB sponsored athlete (i.e. Felix) and have come out defending him on numerous occasions.

This isn't about publicity or popularity... at least not on my end (though it sure DOES seem to be about publicity on the RB side). It isn't about how well or poorly RB treats it's jumpers... I'm sure it treats them very well.

It's about site preservation and respect for your fellow jumpers. And I've heard too many reports now from BASE jumpers in the know of RB sponsored jumpers having a total lack of respect for other jumpers and their objects.

BASE is about community. And some folks seem to be flipping the bird at the BASE community. Sorry if I flip back.

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If you jump with video then you have no bizness ranting on publicized jumps IMHO.

Huh? So now if I have video of my jumps where I play by the rules I can't be upset with other folks who don't? That makes absolutely no sense.

For the record, I have a TON of very cool video, some of us day-blazing sites. The difference here is that the sites that we have day-blazed are all local sites, low profile, and I know for a fact we're the only ones jumping them.

Those sites are very select and very few and we know them and the surrounding area intimately. All of them, save a B that we do locally, are EXTREMELY remote. We day jump them specifically because we know we won't be seen.

This is not what the RB athletes have been doing. If they were burning their own objects that nobody else was jumping, I could give a rip. But they're not... they're jeopardizing objects that others have a far greater interest in preserving. And worse, they don't seem to care that they are.

I have yet to hear the RB people come in and say "We're sorry..." (excepting maybe Shane)... all they've done is get belligerant and take on a "screw the rest of you" attitude.

THAT'S when I got pissed and THAT'S when I decided to boycott RB.... and I'm still boycotting them.



Ahhhhhhh......

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[basehoundsam 0]

Wait till you see what gets anounced next week............ I think there will be some Gamin Goin ON !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jay

P.S. I have a feeling it'll pertain to some type of energy drink sponsored event .

[base283 0]

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Since I'm the last one to have made an anti-RB comment (which incidentally was just goofin' intended to wind up Tree) I guess I'll enter the fray.

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1) The fact that RB "looks after" it's athletes is neither unusual nor impressive. Hell, my company is shit but it's still provides medical protection. This is a pre-requisite for employment in my mind not a bonus.

Well how about that the Chief is taking care of others that have no connections with Red Bulll (stuntpersons).
Does your firm take care of stuff like that? Does your firm pour money into helping people out just because?
(general question not directed at you) Is the bonus a bonus if only you profit off of it?
RB would Drop FB if he did drugs IMHO (drugs other than bull testosterone)
FB getting busted in Europe is not normally a prob. As the police only want his autograph and fotos with him...

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contravention of their ethics policy. RB is a multi-national but appears to have misplaced their code of ethics (business AND BASE ethics).

So the Euro high bridge is still being jumped as we speak. where is the burn? It is nowhere. Every single one who complained about that jump is a person who has not tried to jump it again or at all.

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13) I somehow doubt (and this is purely personal opinion based on anecdotal info and media news) that either RB or FB have the spirit of BASE at the forefront of their minds when planning their activities. RB uses sports to sell drinks. FB uses RB to finance his play time. That's about as shallow as it gets. This is not worse or better than any other company and what FB does is really no worse than many other BASE jumpers have done. However, Felix understands before hand that whether or not he gets busted, even if he gets away clean without anyone seeing (unlikely given his mid day jumps but whatever...) that his exploits WILL be broadcast as entertainment. Many get caught in the act and reach the media in our little world. It usually has negative impacts

Show me the negative impacts. I don´t see them. It´s an illusion I tellya! hehehe

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and sometimes we are even fortunate that when things blow over and the dust settles, jumping can resume. Sometimes it's over for good. Object burned for ever.[ /reply]

Give me an example of an object burned forever. I will jump it if I have the finances. IMHO that does not exist. (finances or an eternally burned object.) Finance me and I can show ya.

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I like RB. Mixed with vodka it makes fantastic Loudmouth Soup. However, as a consumer I reserve the right to try to impress upon my friends and colleagues that I am displeased with the company that creates the stuff and for that reason it would mean something to me if, in support of my point of view, they would make a more informed choice of energy drink. They have the right to say "you mean less to me that my consumption of RB Mr Flicka - please be quiet while I enjoy this satisfying and tasty beverage which is made of ingredients derived from bovine testes". Fair enough?

Fair enough

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You've touched on the ego thing. I'm kinda gonna leave that one alone. We all have them to some extent but we don't all allow ourselves to be led by them. Nuff said.

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Finally, you are still the BASE Zen-Master General. I have great respect for that. You are standing up for your friend. I have enormous respect for that.

I am in no way standing up for FB. I am standing up for fairness. Justice. That is what I am standing up for. I would do the same for anyone.

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You don't, apparently, know Jack Schidt about the world of energy drinks, their marketing or the mechanisms of international business. I could give a rat's ass about that.

I actually do know Jack, he was the one who brought to the west the first "energy drink" that didn´t use cocaine as the stim....

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Hope to share an exit and a few laughs sometime,

me too
take care,
space

[base283 0]

Goahead,
give up, the site is burned forever. Name it. If i have the resources I will jump on my own any site that you have deemed burned by RB. Which site is it? Lets do it together. Back up your opinion. I never defend FB. I only defend Justice. I am fair. i request you and others be the same.
take care,
space

[base570 1]

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Goahead,
give up, the site is burned forever. Name it. If i have the resources I will jump on my own any site that you have deemed burned by RB. Which site is it? Lets do it together. Back up your opinion. I never defend FB. I only defend Justice. I am fair. i request you and others be the same.
take care,
space

Hey Space,
I'd be impressed if you would jump the Christ tower on your own. I would show up to join you if you do all the leg work and pay to get me out of jail

570

[Zennie 0]

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give up, the site is burned forever

I don't care if it's burned forever or 5 months. Or, in the case of the Potato Bridge, just bad publicity which may get us shut out later.

The long & short of it is... don't fuck over your fellow jumpers. What part of that is lost on you?

For the record, I don't have as big of a hangup with Felix' Christ jump... unless there were locals or other folks jumping (or wanting to jump) it as well.

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[base283 0]

Yo Tree,

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I also don't really think that publicity has done anything all that positive for BASE, of which 80 percent is and always will be illegal.

You are in the land of "Free to do as you´re told" I´m hangin in in Europe where you are free to take responsibility for what you do. I would guess that 10% of the jumps on this side of the lake are illegal and will always be illegal. I do miss the romance of doing a bandit jump with a bro who understands the appeal of banditonious.
But not enough to relocate.
take care,
miss ya,
space

[Zennie 0]

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You are in the land of "Free to do as you´re told" I´m hangin in in Europe where you are free to take responsibility for what you do.

That might be the source of our disconnect here.

The precious few legal sites that we do have are... well... PRECIOUS... so we get very defensive of them.

The illegal sites take a lot of work to get up and maintain, so if someone comes and hoses it.... temporarily or permanently... again, we tend to get a little bent out of shape over it.

BTW. Welcome back to the fold! I heard about your return jump a few weeks back (we have some mutual friends ). Congrats!

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[base283 0]

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give up, the site is burned forever

I don't care if it's burned forever or 5 months. Or, in the case of the Potato Bridge, just bad publicity which may get us shut out later.

The long & short of it is... don't fuck over your fellow jumpers. What part of that is lost on you?

The part that is lost on me is who got fucked over? enlighten me please.
Put up.

I have spent some yrs getting BASE recognized as a competent sport in 3 countries. I will never sit back silently and watch knowingly someone burn a site.
Never have, never will. I am old school. I like old school.

Put fairness and justice to your statements.
back up your claims with so called facts so i can demolish them publicly in this forum you chose. It would be nice if we can prove the fallacies together.
August in Italy is looming. Come over. Let us have fun and put the fallacies to rest.
take care, space
Thanks for the return stuff, Highly appreciated

[Zennie 0]

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back up your claims with so called facts so i can demolish them publicly in this forum you chose

The one that's at the forefront of my mind is the recent antics at the Potato Bridge.

they jumped from the railing knowing full well that that is one of the only restrictions on that site. They ignored the sheriff's request NOT to jump with skis from the bridge... instead choosing to thumb their collective noses at Don and the Sheriff.

Then, when they're called on it, they tried to downplay the seriousness of it and became antagonistic to the jumpers who were legitimately concerned.

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[Skinflicka 0]

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Does your firm take care of stuff like that? Does your firm pour money into helping people out just because?

Yeah they do but I concede that it's just because it's good for business not because they have hearts of gold.

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Give me an example of an object burned forever. I will jump it if I have the finances. IMHO that does not exist. (finances or an eternally burned object.) Finance me and I can show ya.

I'd say that any jump resulting in increased security and therefore decreased accessability is a burn. That's my definition. Perhaps that isn't the view held by most.

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I am in no way standing up for FB. I am standing up for fairness. Justice. That is what I am standing up for. I would do the same for anyone.

See, I told you he was the BASE Zen-Master General.

$kin.

Prizes to anyone who gets to read my posts before Mr Aiello's son, Tom deletes them.

[Zennie 0]

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I have spent some yrs getting BASE recognized as a competent sport in 3 countries. I will never sit back silently and watch knowingly someone burn a site. Never have, never will. I am old school. I like old school.

I like to think that, despite my high number, I'm more of an old school mentality as well.

I was taught by an old-schooler (i.e. 460) and know Rick, Randy & Joy. This sport's history and community is very important to me.

And yes... I'm all for raising the Jolly Roger... in the appropriate setting. I'm one of those mutants who actually LIKES some of the more... um... "covert" aspects of the sport.

I also have some new school in me... I like to do the flippy/twisty thing.

Video has been part of this sport forever (and hopefully I'll show that at this year's BD).

For me the thing is community & attitude. I don't get the sense that the RB sponsored jumpers are so much concerned about community as getting their latest antics on the evening news.

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[base283 0]

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back up your claims with so called facts so i can demolish them publicly in this forum you chose

The one that's at the forefront of my mind is the recent antics at the Potato Bridge.
they jumped from the railing knowing full well that that is one of the only restrictions on that site. They ignored the sheriff's request NOT to jump with skis from the bridge... instead choosing to thumb their collective noses at Don and the Sheriff.

Motherhucker nailed it when he said that Don was the F/U. one should never call the authorities.
Though I don´t agree with his actions (MH) it is a thingy for us to deal with.
take care,
space

[base428 1]

No, I'm not afraid to respond, just too busy. I'll elaborate via PM.

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Still waiting for 428 to respond to my points. Are you afraid?

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