Analyze This . . .

[NickDG 23]

Analyze This . . .

Dr. Holder, a Chiropractor (no less), says:

"As they jump off the bridge, their bodies start producing chemicals that are just like opiates," says Jay Holder, president of the American College of Addictionology & Compulsive Disorders. "It is just like if someone stuck a needle in their arm with heroin. There is no difference in how they feel. It's the same uncontrollable addiction."

What a bunch of baloney . . .

In order to rationalize behavior whuffos can't understand they generalize. BASE jumpers come in all flavors, just like regular people. Some are blathering idiots a week before and a week after a single BASE jump. Others, can knock out BASE jump after BASE jump as easily as bending down to tie a shoe.

Here is my list of some BASE jumping types: (Not putting the knock on anyone, as we all go through these stages).

Stage One: The New BASE jumper – This person started about two years ago and thinks Dwain Weston invented BASE jumping. They don’t get the big fuss over Felix. They regal all they meet with video and tales of their daring do. Many burn out in this stage and never go any further, either from a minor injury, someone(s) they know dies, or they find a easier way to get the attention they crave. This is the group that causes the BASE community the most trouble by burning sites and talking to the media as if they speak for all of us. (Gee, it would be refreshing, just once to hear, “Well, I can’t speak for the entire BASE community, but in MY case . . . blah, blah, blah . . .”)

Stage Two: Getting in the Game – In about the fifth year or so some jumpers carve out a niche for themselves in the BASE community. They become “instructors” or go into the gear side of things, some with organization skills run our biggest BASE events. These folks are at the top of their form. (Also in this stage some people “Get out of the Game” but continue to BASE jump, and they just keep it to themselves).

Stage Three: You’ve Seen it All – If you manage to be around the sport twenty years or more you see BASE jumping for what it really is. Now, I could tell you “Stage One” folks what that meaning is, but I wouldn’t want to ruin the ending for you . . .

Nick BASE 194

[freakydiver 0]

Not that I'm proud of it, but I've known a junkie. It isn't calculated, like base. It is an easy way out of hard lessons of life. Period. Most base jumpers I know are very calculated individuals and understand the risks they are taking.

-- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

[Mad47 0]

Release of certain hormones and neurotransmitters during skydiving of BASE activities is a fact. The impact of most of these compounds of human mind and physiology is well known. Addiction is a big question though. I am personally very addicted to workouts because after couple of hours spent in Gym I always feel so much better that normally. This change is to a great extent caused by increased level of enkefalins. Am I addicted? Probably yes. Can I be classified as a drug addict? Probably no. By the way, sex is also very addictive.

Dr. Mad

[QuickDraw 0]

Quote

I could tell you “Stage One” folks what that meaning is, but I wouldn’t want to ruin the ending for you . . .

Would i be right thinking its not a Disney ending then ?

(speaking as a sub-stage-one potential candidate that is...)

-- Hope you don't die. --

I'm fucking winning

[Dd0g 0]

Quote

Stage One: The New BASE jumper – This person started about two years ago and thinks Dwain Weston invented BASE jumping.

I can't quite parse whether this was intended to be insulting to a dead jumper, just reads as if it were intented to be insulting, or is simply incredibly tactless and without empathy.

Perhaps we should have an entirely different dimension here, with the following entry:

Type "A" (for "asshole"): These jumpers fell of a few things years ago, and ever since then their entire identity and self-worth is measured by how low their BASE number is. They never pioneered anything particular in the sport; their claim to "fame" (for it is a tiny and pathetic fame indeed) is that they lucked into meeting a true pioneer who taught them the sport back then. But their lack of actual contribution to the sport (beyond self-aggrandizement, and that sister to it which is the breathless hyperbole they rant whenever taking about other people with a number as small as theirs) doesn't stop them from designating themselves "mouthpiece," "conscience," or best yet "Official Historian" of our sport.

Sure, the actual sport of BASE passed by their own skill level years if not decades ago. Sure, they might not even know where the current state of the art is in the sport. Sure, they might not actually even jump anymore. Still, they cling to that all-important (to them) early BASE number. Still, they don't hesitate to talk smack about other jumpers who stood head and shoulders above them when alive and contributing to the sport. . . and will always stand tall, even in death, compared to these moronic fools.


How's that for a good "Type," Nick? Sound familiar? You want to go drop a turd on somebody, have the nuts to do it to a jumper who is still alive to call your bluff. I'd think that was more or less obvious ethics, but I guess people with cool BASE numbers don't have to bother with such nonsense.

Want to know what Dwain's number was? Most folks don't know it (nor Nik's, incidentally) because they didn't run about blaring it from the rooftops. It wasn't in their signature file, or in their email address, or written in permanent marker on their forehead. They didn't think they were "cooler" than other people (jumpers or not) because their number was lower. They measured themselves by how they treated others who they respected, and whose respect they had earned through their actions. Maybe you never quite got that lesson, but some of us fortunate enough to know them and consider them friends did.

In sum, because they had some goddamned class. . . something you appear to have either never learned in the first place, or lost somewhere along the path of life.

Too bad so many of the really amazing people in our sport are dead, and so many of the bottom-feeders are too busy stroking themselves to actually risk anything by doing much other than typing on a keyboard.

D. Spink

+~+~+~+~
But this, surely, was the glory that no spirits, canine or human, had ever clearly seen, the light that never was on land or sea, and yet is glimpsed by the quickened mind everywhere.

[Bryceworld 0]

I think that that was analyzed pretty good.

[Zennie 0]

Doug, you really need to go back on your meds...

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[hookitt 0]

Again you are such a breath of fresh air! Thanks for that delightful, AND extremely enlightening insight into the REAL world of BASE.

Stage X: Bitter
Not all people reach this stage.

Doug I've heard some good things about you but damn dude, I've read nothing but bitter angst coming from the very keyboard that you accuse others of typing their bottom feeding messages.

I must say that in a way it's entertaining to read the way you shit on people, however, It's rather childish my friend. The world is not against you. Whether you wish to beleive that or not, it's not... I repeat, not against you.

Doug, you're better than that. Let it go. Hate is bad.

Look up the word bully... never mind I'll do it for you.

bul·ly1 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bl)
n. pl. bul·lies
A person who is habitually cruel or overbearing, especially to smaller or weaker people.

Here's another one.

in·se·cure (ns-kyr)
adj.

Lacking emotional stability; not well-adjusted.
Lacking self-confidence; plagued by anxiety.

I'll just bet that in the physical world you're not insecure. You do not fear things in the physical sense. Not to say you're never scared, but physical fear is acceptable. Your mind is the part that's showing through here.

Quote

so many of the bottom-feeders are too busy stroking themselves to actually risk anything by doing much other than typing on a keyboard.

That is a very small portion of the BASE world.

Doug, I've been told you're a very talented individual. Let that part shine brother. It's in you isn't it?

I expect to hear I don't know what I'm talking about. Wrong.. I do.

I will take a screen shot of this page because I expect it will get deleted.

When the world gets you down, listen to Jimmy Buffet. You're buddy Tom said something to that affect once. Give it a shot.

Oh, I've heard smiling in the mirror is good too, but that's just weird.

Cheers.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[brits17 0]

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It wasn't in their signature file, or in their email address, or written in permanent marker on their forehead. They didn't think they were "cooler" than other people (jumpers or not) because their number was lower.

Personally, I think I'm coolest because i have the highest number, thats just me though. I guess I get points taken away for having it in my signature line, oh well. I can only hope to be as cool as you one day. Every day I think to myself, "damn I wish I had a lower base number..."

_______________________
aerialkinetics.com

[Dd0g 0]

Quote

Doug, I've been told you're a very talented individual. Let that part shine brother. It's in you isn't it?

I expect to hear I don't know what I'm talking about. Wrong.. I do.

Wrong, you don't. It's not about "me," though perhaps you aren't able to read English and figure that out for yourself. It's about respect for friends, particularly dead friends that can no longer speak for themselves.

Bitter? Yeah, well I'll be happy to hear your feedback on my mental state when you've walked in my shoes for a few miles. That is, take your best friend, have him commit suicide, know you could have prevented it, and stir. That's a start. Mix in a heap more fatalities, then stir with a whole boxful 'o knives in the back from "friends" without integrity or respect. That's the appetizer, then we'll get to the main course. I'm not bitter, I've just got a whole lot more miles under the hood than you, is all. . . and those miles teach some painful lessons.

One you've lived that, you're qualified to tell me if I'm doing well or not. In the meantime, I'm not sure you know a damned thing about the situation. I'm doin' just fine by me, thank you, and I don't give a shit if the self-sacred world of online circle jerking thinks I'm kewl or not. Sorry, not the measuring stick I use.

Anyway, Nick's pathetic slam against a friend of mine was certainly well-received by the little gang of coolies that hangs out here, wasn't it? Doubly pathetic that not one of you can read those cruel words he wrote and think they are wrong. Or say so.

Talent? I'm alive, that's talent enough for me after the last few years. The rest of it's gravy, and given that you don't a damned thing about me personally, that's a subject beyond you at present.

I'm tired of the syncophantic, self-righteous, self-censored crap that gets smeared across these pages day in and day out. To wit, where's the substantive discussion of this week's fatality? Absent and unaccounted for, is where it is - either nobody is smart enough to ask the questions that beg to be asked, or nobody has the balls to do it. Either way, it's fucking pathetic. That fatality is such a goddamned red flag for anybody who isn't colorblind, but I guess nobody here knows what the color red means.

As I said, it's a shame so many of the good ones are dead. . . the sport is far poorer for it.

D. Spink

ps: Hate isn't always bad; maybe they teach that in kindergarten, and maybe Oprah says so, but in the world of blood and guts some of us hate when people disrespect our genuine friends. I'll let it go when the scales are evened, no sooner and no later. You might not have much to hate in your own insulated world, and I hope you never have to venture out into the badlands and find out firsthand that not everybody's your friend, and not all stories have happy endings.

+~+~+~+~
But this, surely, was the glory that no spirits, canine or human, had ever clearly seen, the light that never was on land or sea, and yet is glimpsed by the quickened mind everywhere.

[Treejumps 0]

Hey DOug,

I don't think that anything the Nick said was in any way disrespectful of Dwain. If anything, it demonstartes that Dwain, while only in the sport for a few years relative to its total existance, embodied its true possibilities. I just don't know where you get these ideas. Nick IS a real pice of base history, and in fact, IS the only thing close to a base historian. Whether he continues to jump or not is his choice, but that does not change what he knows.

Your lashing out at a true embassador and gentleman is really harsh and uncalled for. Why do you take tings about Dwain so personally, especially when it was in fact a positive statement?

Tree
BASE 610

[hookitt 0]

That was very well written Doug. Well done slam

Read this slow cuz it's not written in anger. I want that understood since text does not always reflect the sound intended.

I'm not here to fight with you. Hell in real life you'd easily kick my ass. I was merely having a bit of fun pointing out some characteristics. Perhaps stooping to that level isn't called for but what I said is what other people think. I just pressed send for a change.

The shoes you walk in do not fit me. I have my own and other folks have theirs. The shoes I've walked in may be different, but keep in mind, they have been places. I don't need to put your shoes on to have had bad experiences of my own.

You're obviously an educated individual. That shows through in the posts you used to present and more recently the perfectly written attacks upon others.

I'm not so sure I understand how the mention of Dwains Name, in the context it was used, was disrespectful. When I started jumping, his name came up very often. It's not surprising that people would practically believe he did start BASE jumping.

Read Nicks thoughts without so much rage and it reads rather nicely. It may be painful to hear Dwain’s name mentioned but his name will be mentioned for years to come. He was a nice guy and quite obviously an amazing and calculated acrobat.

The torch has been passed. It will continue to burn and someone else will carry it for a while.

It's time for Breakfast and I'm pretty darn hungry so I'm finished here.

Take Care.

[The111 0]

Quote

Analyze This . . .

Dr. Holder, a Chiropractor (no less), says:

"As they jump off the bridge, their bodies start producing chemicals that are just like opiates," says Jay Holder, president of the American College of Addictionology & Compulsive Disorders. "It is just like if someone stuck a needle in their arm with heroin. There is no difference in how they feel. It's the same uncontrollable addiction."

Hmm, I'll try to put this thread back on topic. My first thought was about how fun it would be to throw Dr. Holder off of a bridge. Then I did a Google search for the name "Jay Holder." Amusingly, the first two things I saw were "the real truth about Jay Holder's degrees" and "Jay Holder, the father of all fake credentials". Good to know this guy's idiocy wasn't limited to his comment about BASE.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Quote

The torch has been passed. It will continue to burn and someone else will carry it for a while.

I'm not sure why this thread was started to begin with. I'm going to reply to you Tim because hopefully you know that I respect you, respect your knowledge and your skills and maybe I'd also reply to Nick and/or Doug. But to my knowledge I have not met either one of these guys and it's easier to respond to someone I know and someone I have met.

Yes I do agree with Nick that there are multiple personality types in this sport and the newer people tend to be pretty vocal and exuberant towards the discipline. But not all of us newbies act the way Nick portrayed the Stage One people act. Yes video is cool and good to have. But you don't see me running around showing my video to everyone and surely you won't see me running around telling people "look how cool I am, I just went belly to earth, stowed for two seconds". I mean I know that the jumps I make off of the Perrine belly to earth stowed for two seconds are the right types of jumps for me to be making right now, but they are by all means not anywhere close to being bad-ass jumps. They are jumps a newbie like myself make. So that brings me to think why some of the older jumpers (not all of course) are hostile to the new jumpers. Okay if from this point on, no first-timers will be allowed to jump because it's spoiling things for the old timers, well then I guess we are all involved in a dying sport.

As far as Dwain and the newbies perspective. Why would I think he was one of the pioneers. I do believe that he was the most talented aerobatic BASE jumper to walk this earth ... to date of course. But for sure I did not believe that he started BASE. In fact who started BASE is not important. The important thing is that BASE does exist and we must respect it.

I'm not sure what to say about Doug. I'm sure if I met him in the right environment, that we'd get along (at least I like to tell myself this). But I know he doesn't like skydivers and well I'm a skydiver. I'm sorry, I have fun skydiving (freeflying, tracking, swooping and wingsuit flight). But while I'm a newbie to BASE, I also like to think of myself as a BASE jumper too. Maybe I'm not the sort of BASE jumper that Doug likes, but I'm sorry I'm not BASE jumping for Doug, for Nick or for anyone else ... but myself.

In this thread Doug did mention something about this latest fatality in WA state and how people aren't talking about the real issues. So I will ask a few questions:

1) Was the deceased qualified to take a wingsuit off of a cliff. Wingsuit BASE is the main reason why I'm getting into BASE. But you won't see me doing wingsuit BASE jumps until I have a shit load of skydiving wingsuit jumps and a shit load of BASE jumps before I put the two together.

2) Is the object that the deceased died on really safe for wingsuit BASE jumps. Obviously it's doable (two of the three guys succeeded with their jumps). But is a 66% success rate really safe? Is this a marginal wingsuit BASE site?

If a newbie like myself starts spewing stuff about being this and that in the sport of BASE. Then yes you more experienced guys and gals have the right to shit down our throats. But not all of us are type "A" personalities who think that we are all that. Some of us are actually out for a few shits and giggles and some of us realize that we have a long road ahead of us.

I'll be back at the Perrine Bridge this weekend building some much needed experience, hopefully being safe and maybe some of you out there will also be at the bridge (not directed at you Tim as I'm sure you'll be in CA).

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[460 0]

My attitude:
I like my coffee like I like my women: bitter.

Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

[base311 0]

Quote

Quote

Stage One: The New BASE jumper – This person started about two years ago and thinks Dwain Weston invented BASE jumping.

I can't quite parse whether this was intended to be insulting to a dead jumper, just reads as if it were intented to be insulting, or is simply incredibly tactless and without empathy.

(stuff snipped)

D. Spink

Geeze Doug did I read the same post from NickDG that you did??? I must not have because I totally didn't take what he wrote as a slam on Dwain at all. I took it as Dwain is the current BASE God in the eyes of the noobs coming along these days... that he embodies all that to which they strive to become in their own right.

Now you obviously didn't take it that way (and I'm sure you have your reasons for lashing out - whatever they may be), but I'm fairly sure you read into things a whole lot more deeply (and incorrectly) than NickDG intended, and probably missed (or intentionally overlooked) the underlying meaning of his statement: The new folks have not a clue of BASE jumping's roots. I can't count the number of times I've mentioned certain BASE pioneers' names to newer BASE jumpers and had them give me that deer-in-the-headlights stare; they had no idea, nor did they really seem to give a rats ass to find out. I think THAT is the intended meaning NickDG had.

Next, and from your other post you wrote, in part:

Quote

"I'm tired of the syncophantic, self-righteous, self-censored crap that gets smeared across these pages day in and day out. To wit, where's the substantive discussion of this week's fatality? Absent and unaccounted for, is where it is - either nobody is smart enough to ask the questions that beg to be asked, or nobody has the balls to do it. Either way, it's fucking pathetic. That fatality is such a goddamned red flag for anybody who isn't colorblind, but I guess nobody here knows what the color red means.

So of all the posts I've seen anyone make regarding this accident, you appear to have more information than anyone I've seen. TELL US WHAT YOU KNOW.

Goddamn... we can't read people's fucking minds. Ask questions?

Okay...

What happened?

BSBD,
Gardner

[base386 0]

Awesome reply Canuck. Couldn't agree more. I'm a fairly old timer with my first base jump being in 1987, approximately 500 base jumps, and not one damn aerial in all of them. Maybe there's a bit of jealousy in some of the ole timers...I know I am, but I also know my limits. I'm an over forty soft cock flat and stable propecia taking ho banging has been perfectly content with the occasional SOLO jump. BASE has rapidly advanced in the past 10 years with respect to aerials/advanced exits and some ole farts are just pissed they didn't make a much bigger contribution to the sport.In my opinion, Dwain Weston has been the single most pioneering jumper in the history of the sport and most of all he was willing to share the knowledge and fill the internet with useful advice on exits, gear, techniques etc.etc... Gone but not forgotten.
386
386

[bps 0]

Doug --

I usually stay out of the mud-slinging, but I have something to say about this. I feel your statements are unfounded and unfair.

First and foremost, I think you completely misunderstood NickDG's post -- I saw it in a completely different manner than you did.

And for the record, I think NickDG is an icon of past and present. He's had his finger on the pule of BASE for a very long time and is full of useful, insightful, and witty information. I've been thoroughly enjoying hiw writings since 1995 when I started learning all I could about this wonderful and whacky sport called BASE.

Doug, it saddens me to see that you carry so much anger and emotions. By all means, I know how much it hurts to lose friends in this sport and granted, we all deal with it differently, but I really hope you could find a way to let it go and find peace within yourself. I know the friends you've lost wouldn't want it any other way.

I met Nik in Feb of 1999 and Dwain later that same year. While I certainly wasn't close dear friends with either one of them, I certainly got to know them over the next several years. Both were some of the most flavored and colored human beings I've ever met. I cried when they passed and I will never forget them or the memories I have of their lives.

Doug, I tell you these things because I hope that one day you can find peace within yourself and others -- I'd sure like to see the old dog that I used to know.

Best wishes,

Bryan

[Dd0g 0]

Quote

Doug, I tell you these things because I hope that one day you can find peace within yourself and others -- I'd sure like to see the old dog that I used to know.

I appreciate your words, Bryan.

The thing is that, in terms of Dwain's death, 99% of the way it played out is unknown to 99% of jumpers. I've stated the facts publicly, and been attacked and threatened (which is funny, all things considered) in a most aggressive and intense manner. I also saw my comments on the reality of his death censored off of this board and elsewhere - ironic, really.

So, basically, last year I just let the whole goddamned mess go and went on with my life and my jumping. Some injuries are so severe that they take months to even begin healing. However, in walking away from the details of his death and the events surrounding it. . . I didn't forget them, and I never will. I don't know - to this day - how to really make sense of what happened, and no I am not "at peace" with the whole damned mess, not one bit.

Seeing some of the key players in that drama pop up in the press lately, spewing on about Dwain's "tragic" death, that's just too much for me to take sitting down. . . and it probably always will be. Seeing a fatality in my backyard this week that was so predictable that Dwain was telling me to watch out for it back in 2001 just adds to the ennui. Seeing nobody really dive in and question WHY a low-time jumper was wingsuiting off an advanced backcountry cliff with no experienced mentors and insufficient training just reminds me that many of those who would have done this in the past - and who helped to keep us honest in our sport - are dead and gone now, and none of us left is really filling their shoes (myself included). Perhaps nobody will.

So, if I read into Nick's comments about Dwain something that wasn't intended, this I regret. However, Nick knows some of the facts about his death and he must surely know that bringing his name up in that type of context is bound to be tinder-dry, explosive material to those of us who lived that nightmare firsthand. Some things we just don't joke about, even in a good-natured way, while the wounds are still raw and for a long time afterwards.

Anybody who knew Dwain also knew that - for all his exuberant ego-centric foolishness - he was deeply, intensely respectful of the early poineers of the sport. As someone who had jumped for nearly a decade - 30% of his life, and more than half of his adult live - he did give a huge amount of himself to BASE. And the lasting legacy of what he gave isn't the "flippy do and twisty flip" stuff (as he termed it); it was the technical improvements he gave for free to every gear manufacturer in the sport, never asking for nor receiving a dime in return (he did get heaps of demo gear, some quite nice and some beyond dodgy).

Vented canopies. Valves. Fifth upper control lines. Tracking pants. The list goes on. . . he didn't "invent" any of them (and didn't care to be credited with invention or much else in the tech side of things), but he did work tirelessly to propogage sound gear tech ideas and actions. In doing so, he did revolutionize BASE for everyone who jumps today. Unlike others, he never tried to make a living doing it, never charged his many students a dime, never tried to grab a buck from his lifetime's work in BASE.

This is why seeing his name as a sort of "newbie icon" target, as Nick cast him above, is just insulting. Dwain was jumping in the early '90s, doing sub-200 foot freefalls over hard ground in the mid-90s. He pushed the sport for years and years, and any "newbie" today who takes him as their role model is, indeed, well-served. He's far from a media creation. . . he NEVER sold a second of footage to the TeeVee crews (unlike certain other SoCal jumpers who live quite lavisly off the media whore). He had fatality footage unlike anything else out there, and he destroyed it as it was hurtful and painful to the families and to him.

I can think of a few other people that make quite good "icons" for a sort of juvenile, media-obsessed BASE. . . but Dwain just isn't one of them. No less than Nik himself, Dwain was no angel. . . he was haunted by the price the sport made him pay, up until the day he died. He could be bitter and angry and resentful and yes lazy. He was human, but the side of him that touched all of us in BASE was nothing to laugh at, or make fun of. . . not yet, anyway.

I'd not joke about Carl Boenish's death, nor about Jean's problems with PC location. . . it's just not funny, not even "funny." Some things don't make good fodder for jokes. To wit, my "jokes" about Nick weren't very funny, were they? That's how the shoe feels when it's on the other foot.

Peace comes through acceptance, and I'm nowhere near accepting how things played out after Dwain flew into that bridge in Colorado last year. Several people in this sport have a great deal to answer for, to this day - they owe apologies to Dwain's family, above all else, for the lies they told them (lies of statement and of omission), and they owe the memory of Dwain the honest truth about how he chose to die.

Regards,

D. Spink

+~+~+~+~
But this, surely, was the glory that no spirits, canine or human, had ever clearly seen, the light that never was on land or sea, and yet is glimpsed by the quickened mind everywhere.

[ManBird 0]

Quote

The thing is that, in terms of Dwain's death, 99% of the way it played out is unknown to 99% of jumpers.

As far as I know, you are the only person that thinks it's a suicide. From the perspective of myself and others, 99% do know the facts, and 1% wants to think otherwise. Nothing against you, man. I'm just saying that we don't agree on this point.

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

Click

[Dd0g 0]

Quote

As far as I know, you are the only person that thinks it's a suicide. From the perspective of myself and others, 99% do know the facts, and 1% wants to think otherwise. Nothing against you, man. I'm just saying that we don't agree on this point.

What I "think" isn't of relevance here. Anybody who hasn't discussed the details of this fatality with me firsthand doesn't have anywhere near enough data to have a substantive opinion on this issue.

It is sad when something like Dwain's death is turned into a circus of argument and conflict; that's why I just stopped talking about it with other jumpers. Though, I'm certainly not the only one who knows what actually happened in Colorado - your unawareness of that further lays bare your relative removal from the situation.

It's sort of like Brian's death; there was so much dust kicked up in the barrage of personal attacks launched (primarily at Dwain, but also at Nik and myself) by the opportunistic little prick from Perris that the actual facts of the fatality got blurred so badly that many people thought there was substantive disagreement about what happened. There was no disagreement, not from those who were there and who saw the forensic evidence firsthand. However, even Dwain stopped fighting to clarify the truth after a while; there's a point of negative returns, personally, for that type of struggle.

However, even if a big chunk of the herd convinces itself that the sky is green, it doesn't make the sky any less blue. It's often a thankless task to work to set forth a truth that few want to hear, and quite a few would prefer to keep under wraps. Add in the emotional cost and wounds to those of us close enough to know what really happened, and nobody's really going to "argue" with the uneducated masses about it.

So, "believe" what you will; heck, believe that gravity doesn't work, for all I care. That won't change gravity from working, and it won't change the facts of Dwain's death.

D. Spink

+~+~+~+~
But this, surely, was the glory that no spirits, canine or human, had ever clearly seen, the light that never was on land or sea, and yet is glimpsed by the quickened mind everywhere.

[jimjenningsmpa 0]

>What I "think" isn't of relevance here.

Yeah, so shut the f.u.c.k. up!

>Anybody who hasn't discussed the details of this fatality with me firsthand doesn't have anywhere near enough data to have a substantive opinion on this issue.

Oh, I see, they need you're "self(ishly)" created data to know the "real truth?"

>It is sad when something like Dwain's death is turned into a circus of argument and conflict; that's why I just stopped talking about it with other jumpers.

Well...you didn't stop talking about it soon enough... and amazingly...you still keep talking about it!

>Though, I'm certainly not the only one who knows what actually happened in Colorado - your unawareness of that further lays bare your relative removal from the situation.

Well, I was there...you were not...and DW shared with me his thoughts about you... If anything, he convinced YOU to think if he happened to die that day (cause he knew weeks ahead of time he was going to make a do or die jump) you would live a life of self torment in the event of his death. Think about it...he played it up oh so well... Ha ha ha! how do you like them apples???!!!


>However, even if a big chunk of the herd convinces itself that the sky is green, it doesn't make the sky any less blue. It's often a thankless task to work to set forth a truth that few want to hear, and quite a few would prefer to keep under wraps. Add in the emotional cost and wounds to those of us close enough to know what really happened, and nobody's really going to "argue" with the uneducated masses about it.

The sky is green doug!

>So, "believe" what you will; heck, believe that gravity doesn't work, for all I care. That won't change gravity from working, and it won't change the facts of Dwain's death.

Gee, I hope not!

Never thought I would post again on this retarded forum...but I couldn't help myself...like I could give a shit anyway...

and gee Nick...where do you fit into the "three types" and where would I fit in???

JJ

[Dd0g 0]

I thought you "quit," pansy. What's the problem, are you too incompetent to even quit without fucking that up, as well?

Don't worry, JJ, every time you spout bullshit to some unsuspecting journalist, I will be there to correct the record. Always. I guess it's true, the only thing you've ever done successfully is be a liar. . . and, even there, failure looms.

I wish he'd have hit you, the world would be a better place.

Peace,

D. Spink

+~+~+~+~
But this, surely, was the glory that no spirits, canine or human, had ever clearly seen, the light that never was on land or sea, and yet is glimpsed by the quickened mind everywhere.

[sangiro 4]

Quote

Yeah, so shut the f.u.c.k. up!

JJ, take it somewhere else.

Quote

Anyway, Nick's pathetic slam against a friend of mine was certainly well-received by the little gang of coolies that hangs out here,

Doug, you can be angry and you can be bitter, but you can not use my forums to rip at everyone who says something that you disagree with.

Both of you take a month to cool off. Anyone else?

Safe swoops
Sangiro

[badenhop 0]

Sure, I'll take a stab at it. As usual, NickD has something worthwhile to say, and as usual, some confused freak from stage one has to rant.
Unrequited love can really mess a guy up.

The good news?
"Super" Johnny just got back from Russia where he represented
TEAM ILL VISION on the 30-way from Ostankino - way to go Johnny!
.....livin up to it!

Avery BASE 396
The first person to guess the name of BASE 395 gets a free IV gift.

==================================

I've got all I need, Jesus and gravity. Dolly Parton

http://www.AveryBadenhop.com