I have a question

[KolinskyDC 0]

Hey everyone

I am a first timer to this thread. I have a quick question. I just saw "Adrenaline Rush" today at an IMAX theater and must admit it was awesome and gave me my first desire to BASE jump. I think what you all do is amazing but swore I would never do it (risk is just not worth the benefit to me) Anyway, in the movie they show a 4,000 foot cliff in Norway, does anyone know where exactly? Next question, is can you jump off this cliff with a skydiving rig, pull after about 10 seconds and still have time to use your reserve? I know the time is there but what about the terrain below the cliff's edge? I have said that I would never BASE jump unless I could from an object at least 4,000 feet and after seeing this movie, I may have to add this one to my "To Do" list.

Melissa

"May the best of your past be the worst of your future"

[bertusgeert 1]

brother, get ready for some flaming is all I can say....

I suggest spending some more time lurking!

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As jy dom is moet jy bloei!

[KolinskyDC 0]

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brother, get ready for some flaming is all I can say....

I suggest spending some more time lurking!

I cannot understand why I would be flamed for asking questions about something I know very little about. Isn't that how people learn about things? If no-one feels like responding to me, that's fine, but I certainly would not expect people to be rude because they feel as though my questions are stupid.

I understand that sites are not named in the BASE forum but this site was named specifically in a movie which has been shown nation wide, I just forgot the name.

Sorry for asking a couple of questions, I guess I will have to just go see the movie again to find out where this place is, which I had planned on doing anyway, no big deal.

Thanks

Melissa

"May the best of your past be the worst of your future"

[leroydb 0]

not to be rude but try searching the base forum first, then ask questions. Have you read the "getting into base" article. If not I highly recommend it.

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[Skydawg 0]

Methinks, Troll... But if not, get to Lysebotn and you can't miss the cliff from there.

Take a stroll to the top(the third hill is the easiest) Don't go to exit #7, it's way to hard, and much too far to walk.

But you can take a 10 sec delay off exit#3, and look out for the large landing area on the slight slope.

Have fun.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Hey everyone

I have said that I would never BASE jump unless I could from an object at least 4,000 feet and after seeing this movie, I may have to add this one to my "To Do" list.

Over 10 people have died jumping Norwegian big walls due to unstable exits and wall strikes under canopy.

Jumping a 400 foot bridge with a big landing area would be a much safer first jump than a 4000 foot cliff.

[BASE813 0]

http://www.basejump.org/discus/articles/differences.html

Differences Between B.A.S.E. Jumping and Skydiving
by Tom Begic

Differences Between B.A.S.E. Jumping and Skydiving.

Why A B.A.S.E. Jump is Not Just Another Skydive.

You Can't Skydive From a Cliff!

Everyone has seen pictures of the amazing 3000ft cliff in Norway, known as Kjerag. This inspires many skydivers to make the pilgrimage to what is perceived as a relatively safe B.A.S.E. jump. But is it really safe? And are skydivers adequately prepared for every scenario that they may encounter. As time goes by and the number of fatalities increases, it is being proven that skydivers are NOT adequately prepared.
How do you prepare for big wall B.A.S.E. jumping? What differences are there between high and low altitude jumps?

I use a technique called Potential Problem Analysis on each and every jump. To be able to use this technique effectively, you first need to be able to recognise and analyse all possible variables (scenarios) and then map out a plan of action prior to jumping.

For a skydiver wanting to attempt B.A.S.E. jumping, this means that they should:


know about all possible skydiving malfunctions and how to deal with them.
have an intimate knowledge of equipment.
have the right motivation for wanting to jump.
obtain the right training from the right people.
know about all possible B.A.S.E. malfunctions.
know the differences between skydiving and B.A.S.E. jumping.
The last point is especially relevant because many of the incidents in B.A.S.E. jumping involve skydivers who make the statement its 3000ft, hence its just like doing a hop’n’pop on a skydive – how easy and safe is that!”. This thought could not be further from the truth.

Let's split up a jump and analyse the differences between skydiving and B.A.S.E. jumping.

SITE ACCESS

On a skydive, you just hop on an aircraft and away you go. On a B.A.S.E. jump, you may have to do hours of difficult hiking, technical climbing, and mountaineering. There is also the issue of legality and trespassing – are you allowed to walk to the exit point and jump off it?

EXIT

On a skydive, all you need to do is hop out of the aircraft. There is plenty of airspeed for you to be able to fly into the correct body position. You also have a lot of free space around you.

On a B.A.S.E. jump, quite often the exit point is difficult to access, slippery, unstable, secured (i.e. security, refer to legal access issues), radiated, electrified, etc. There is no airspeed as you leave the object. This means that you have to put your body in the correct position. If you become unstable, you must use gymnastic &/or diving techniques to regain stability. You can’t “arch” into a stable position for a number of seconds. The exit point is usually precise, if you jump a few metres either side of defined exit point you may introduce further dangers (such as a protruding ledge).

FREEFALL

Once you exit an aircraft, you have a lot of free space around you. It does not really matter what you do until you commence your deployment. On a B.A.S.E. jump, there is an object near you. Therefore you effectively lose half of your space. You must maintain separation from the object. Can you guarantee the you don’t backslide a few feet on every skydive?? On an underhung object, backsliding a few feet would probably lead to an ugly death. Your freefall time is finite. On lower objects you must be precise in calculating you delay. On a skydive, a few seconds either side of the planned opening altitude does not matter. On a B.A.S.E. jump, a few fractions of a second could mean the difference between life and death. As in the exit, you must use gymnastic &/or diving techniques to regain stability in the first few seconds of a jump if you become unstable.

DEPLOYMENT

Stability is critical on deployment. Your shoulders must be parallel with the ground and your back must point up to provide a clear space for your pilot chute and canopy to deploy. This is true in both skydiving and B.A.S.E. jumping. However, most B.A.S.E. jumpers use single parachute systems. Hence, you must guarantee each and every opening. You would usually get away with an unstable skydiving deployment and you have a reserve to deal with the consequences.

Another critical factor is the height consumed during a deployment. It is very important that a B.A.S.E. jumper uses equipment that consistently consumes the same altitude with minimal variance on every jump. 100 feet here or there are not important on a skydive, yet on a B.A.S.E. jump, it could mean the difference between life and death.

The first part of the deployment (from throwing the pilot chute to line stretch) is the most important on a B.A.S.E. jump. The slightest pilot chute hesitation on a low or underhung object could mean the difference between life and death. As an example: you are on a low jump (250ft), and have a hesitation such that the distance consumed during deployment is greater than usual. Most jumpers will begin to panic and undermine their body position. This could lead to off headings or entanglements. The hesitation may mean that you could impact the ground prior to full canopy deployment. The hesitation may be caused by: incorrect pilot chute selection (material, geometry, size, construction, etc), incorrect bridle length, incorrect stowage or holding methods, incorrect usage technique, downward wind rotors, air density/pressure/ temperature, plus many other factors.

Would you consider any of these on a skydive? You have to on a B.A.S.E. jump.

CANOPY FLIGHT

You MUST pre-plan your flight path and allow for all deployment eventualities on most B.A.S.E. jumps. Most sites have obstructions from exit to landing and may have very tight landing areas. Often there are no out landing options. You have to use all your control inputs (front and rear risers, toggles) to control the flight of your canopy. Due to the greater time and space available on most skydives, this is not usually a problem.

LANDING

Landing areas in Australia are often tight with no outs, steep, and covered in sharp rocks or other "injurious" objects. In case of injury, they are also not easily accessible to medical and rescue personnel. In contrast, most skydivers land in open fields. Hence your canopy choice, flight path planning, accuracy skills, personal protective equipment (ankle protecting and shock absorbing boots, knee pads, elbow pads, helmet, etc) must all be of a high standard.

EQUIPMENT

As long as your skydiving equipment is maintained, packed, and used correctly, you can use the same gear on every jump (notwithstanding the discipline specific equipment that is available nowadays such has CRW and accuracy gear).

In B.A.S.E. jumping every component of your gear and its configuration must be taken into account on each and every jump. This can best be explained using two contrasting examples.

Example 1: a 1500ft bridge onto a large grass landing area. You could use virtually any sort of B.A.S.E. equipment in any configuration. Example 2: a 200ft cliff onto a tight, sloped, and rocky landing area.

You need the following specific equipment:

large reinforced pilot chute (> 45 in) for extra drag and faster extraction.
longer bridle (~ 9 ft long) with NO collapsing system to avoid the burble zone.
multiple bridle attachment point preferred to minimise centre cell stripping.
brakes set appropriately (this is dependant on wing loading and characteristics of the particular canopy you are jumping).
appropriate wing loading - 0.7 lbs per square foot preferred.
bottom skin vents or pac valves to enhance early pressurisation.
a secure (but quick release) toggle system to prevent premature toggle release.
slider removed or down.
brake lines stowed outside the keeper ring.
unobstructed (i.e. cover flaps lifted) & primed pins or velcro.
pilot chute folded / stowed and used correctly (poor technique can lead to minor hesitations which at very low altitudes translates to higher potential for death).
good body position. At this altitude, head high position is preferred.
single parachute systems since there is no time for an alternate parachute.
appropriate PPE (personal protective equipment) such as shock absorbing ankle protecting boots, knee pads, elbow pads, helmet, etc. Other equipment such as back braces, abrasion resistant pants, etc could also be used.
knowledge of weather conditions & the affect wind has on deploying, flying, and landing canopies. Rotors, downdrafts, venturi affects, etc need to be considered.
the ability to say NO to a jump and to reject, peer or ego pressure.
ability to determine what skills are required for a jump & whether or not you have the appropriate skill set to perform the jump safely.
As you can see, to maximise safety on a B.A.S.E. jump you have to take into account many complexities that most skydivers would not consider. This lack on consideration is the root cause of most of today's incidents and fatalities. Take a few moments to learn about an activity before you participate. This time could save you a lifetime.

Tom Begic
October 2001

[Faber 0]

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does anyone know where exactly?

yes

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can you jump off this cliff with a skydiving rig, pull after about 10 seconds and still have time to use your reserve?

no

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I know the time is there but what about the terrain below the cliff's edge?

rocky whith loads of stones arround in the size of cars and bigger

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I may have to add this one to my "To Do" list.

i think you rather considder to move it back to "not to do" list

1.Its a BASE jump,for BASE jumps we use BASEgear(like you wouldnt use a paraglider on a skydive correct??)

2.If you shouse a rig whith a Reserve,you still have max 11secs to impact if you just jump and dont track,your sure you wanted to use your reserve then?(well im not much into reserves in BASE,so.. he he),besides cant you pack a canopy?if you dont trust your pack job you shouldnt even skydive...

3.are you good at landing at the area you want to?if not you could get wet or even hurt yourself...

4. Reasson you will be flamed here is that loads of skydivers see such a huge cliff as a safe jump(only looking at the alti from exit to lz).That aint the way to BASE jump,the cliff dont go straight down all the time...

hope you see why you should not add it to your do list hell im not even sure if i dare to jump the place... it involves a sliderunless you want to be under canopy for a looooooooooooonge ride...

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[KolinskyDC 0]

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does anyone know where exactly?

yes

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can you jump off this cliff with a skydiving rig, pull after about 10 seconds and still have time to use your reserve?

no

Quote

I know the time is there but what about the terrain below the cliff's edge?

rocky whith loads of stones arround in the size of cars and bigger

Quote

I may have to add this one to my "To Do" list.

i think you rather considder to move it back to "not to do" list

1.Its a BASE jump,for BASE jumps we use BASEgear(like you wouldnt use a paraglider on a skydive correct??)

2.If you shouse a rig whith a Reserve,you still have max 11secs to impact if you just jump and dont track,your sure you wanted to use your reserve then?(well im not much into reserves in BASE,so.. he he),besides cant you pack a canopy?if you dont trust your pack job you shouldnt even skydive...

3.are you good at landing at the area you want to?if not you could get wet or even hurt yourself...

4. Reasson you will be flamed here is that loads of skydivers see such a huge cliff as a safe jump(only looking at the alti from exit to lz).That aint the way to BASE jump,the cliff dont go straight down all the time...

hope you see why you should not add it to your do list hell im not even sure if i dare to jump the place... it involves a sliderunless you want to be under canopy for a looooooooooooonge ride...

The question may have been a little premature. I was just curious about what I saw on the film. The site looked absolutely beautiful and seemed alot safer than some of the BASE jumps I had seen before. I am fully aware that if I ever seriously decided to do something like this I would have to do a lot of training and preparation. I have read all of the things you all suggested and then some. Now I know that there is no BASE site that would be similar to a skydive. It may have sounded like a naive question, but I sincerely did not know. Thanks for the replies, sorry for wasting your time.

Melissa

"May the best of your past be the worst of your future"

[Rauk 0]

Hey, you haven't wasted anyones time, they didn't have to take the time to respond. But to add, it's not always height that makes a site safe, like Drew said. Norway is an AWESOME site, nobody can deny that, and I can appreciate and definitely understand the drive to want to go there (I will be there soon). If you want to go there and jump, you will, and I think what everyone is trying to say is, take the necesary avenues to doing so. Keep in mind that asking questions is the start to it all, so don't feel bad asking, it can keep you alive. Have fun.

[skydiveguy 0]

Melissa....

Since you and I jump at the same DZ, I highly recommend a LOT more skydives before attempting BASE.

Also, you might want to talk to a couple of BASE jumpers that jump at our DZ first (I'll point them out to you next time I see you).

Also watch the Bridge Day video we have been watching for a few weekends lately, this might change your mind.

[bertusgeert 1]

Good article - I haven't run into this site before, glad to find another site with a good amount of valuable information.

Good post, thanks.

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As jy dom is moet jy bloei!

[BASE813 0]

check out all the articles on the ABA site - there are some very good ones there......


hey "it aint no thang"!

[base283 0]

Quote

I am a first timer to this thread. I have a quick question. I just saw "Adrenaline Rush" today at an IMAX theater and must admit it was awesome and gave me my first desire to BASE jump. Anyway, in the movie they show a 4,000 foot cliff in Norway, does anyone know where exactly? Next question, is can you jump off this cliff with a skydiving rig, pull after about 10 seconds and still have time to use your reserve? I know the time is there but what about the terrain below the cliff's edge? I have said that I would never BASE jump unless I could from an object at least 4,000 feet and after seeing this movie,
Melissa

There´s a quote by some great person " it´s better to ask a stupid question and get a stupid answer than to not ask and remain stupid".
This being said, most are trying to help you understand that your priorities are misplaced according to "the way things are done".
I respect your questions and like the rest, recommend you do more research. Also note that in films, Normally the Alt. is stated from exit to LZ, the same as the DZ. But in reality it is what YOU can achieve via tracking over the ledges and talus on the early part of your jump.
No tracking skills, will likely result in an object strike. Pulling too early will also put you very near to the wall. It is a very high price to pay just to have a chance to use a reserve. You could be putting yourself in a very high risk situation just for the small amount of psychological security.
I hope this helps,
take care,
space

[KolinskyDC 0]

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There´s a quote by some great person " it´s better to ask a stupid question and get a stupid answer than to not ask and remain stupid".
This being said, most are trying to help you understand that your priorities are misplaced according to "the way things are done".
I respect your questions and like the rest, recommend you do more research. Also note that in films, Normally the Alt. is stated from exit to LZ, the same as the DZ. But in reality it is what YOU can achieve via tracking over the ledges and talus on the early part of your jump.
No tracking skills, will likely result in an object strike. Pulling too early will also put you very near to the wall. It is a very high price to pay just to have a chance to use a reserve. You could be putting yourself in a very high risk situation just for the small amount of psychological security.
I hope this helps,
take care,
space

[TomAiello 25]

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...what is the safest way to try your first BASE jump?

I'd recommend a high span jump over calm water.

Most of my advice is in the "Getting into BASE" article linked at the top of the pages of this forum.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com