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metal cutaway handle

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I don't... and planning to have a pad instead of the silver once I have a 2nd rig... will nevertheless keep the silver for wingsuit jumps

edited to add : this means I don't want a metal cutaway, and I want to get rid of my metal reserve
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Fumer tue, péter pue
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ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579

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I saw a guy that had a metal cutaway handle on his rig.
Does anyone on this forum use this? Where did you buy it?



i have it. it's a standard D-ring handle. i ordered it from sun path and i'm pretty happy with it :)

stan.

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it's not about defying gravity; it's how hard you can abuse it. speed skydiving it is ...
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I have seen a few metal cutaway handles, but never really understood why anyone would want one. The whole reason for having three different shapes of handles on a rig is to remind you that they have three different functions. That way, tactile sensitivity backs up any decision your conscious mind is making. Use all your senses on every skydive.

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I have seen a few metal cutaway handles, but never really understood why anyone would want one. The whole reason for having three different shapes of handles on a rig is to remind you that they have three different functions. That way, tactile sensitivity backs up any decision your conscious mind is making. Use all your senses on every skydive.



you're right about the reason why the handles have different shape. especially it's important for someone with low number of jumps, who can get confused and pull the wrong handle. i personally go for better grip, i'm pretty sure i'm gonna pull the right handles since i've already done it. i prefer "one hand on a hanlde" procedure and having two d-rings ensure that i'm not gonna slip on cutaway and pull reserver sonner then i should. i had a hard cutaway once and let go left hand to hel to pull cutaway. since my chest strap was loosened at that moment, whne i came back for reserve handle it was almost on my back. if i had my current system installed at that time, i wouildn't have that problem. now i don't care. when time comes - one hand on one handle, another on another one, pull right, pull left. no peeling, no thinking :)

and since i'm mostly do only speed dives for my competition training, which are always solos, mid air collision and accidental pulls are not really my concerned. so this system works for me perfect and that's why i chose it.

stan

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it's not about defying gravity; it's how hard you can abuse it. speed skydiving it is ...
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Are there any drawbacks with replacing the cutaway pad with a loop or metal handle?



- possible confusion at cutaway time
- higher probability of snagging (i only compare this to two pillows vs two d-rings configuration. half way configuration doesn't make any sense in this argument of snagging)
- people not understanding what it's all about when they see you and arguing with you :)

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it's not about defying gravity; it's how hard you can abuse it. speed skydiving it is ...
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The hardest part of designing the 3-ring system in the first place was designing a handle that would stay put better than the then current metal loop ripcord handle. When a metal RESERVE ripcord handle comes loose, the pressure from the pilot chute spring on the pin will usually keep the reserve shut. However, there is no such tension on the 3-ring system, so if the handle comes loose, the whole system is much more likely to come apart. I believe that if I had set up the first 3-rings with metal loop handles, the entire system would have failed because of accidental releases. Remember, the most important function of any canopy release system is not to release. (It must stay connected for nearly 1,000 jumps for each time it is expected to release.) My soft 3-ring handle is the most snag proof handle ever invented. Please leave it alone.

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The hardest part of designing the 3-ring system in the first place was designing a handle that would stay put better than the then current metal loop ripcord handle. When a metal RESERVE ripcord handle comes loose, the pressure from the pilot chute spring on the pin will usually keep the reserve shut. However, there is no such tension on the 3-ring system, so if the handle comes loose, the whole system is much more likely to come apart. I believe that if I had set up the first 3-rings with metal loop handles, the entire system would have failed because of accidental releases. Remember, the most important function of any canopy release system is not to release. (It must stay connected for nearly 1,000 jumps for each time it is expected to release.) My soft 3-ring handle is the most snag proof handle ever invented. Please leave it alone.



OK that answers my question.:D:D I was going to ask if my new Micron could come with a soft loop handle, :D:D Guess not:D:D That's OK one of the reasons I bought the Mircon is that BillB invented it;) so his word is good enough for me:)
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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I saw a guy that had a metal cutaway handle on his rig.
Does anyone on this forum use this? Where did you buy it?



i have one onmy rig ( a 2k3 racer) it is a low profile handle with a red "rubberized" coating over the metal... i like it.......

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"i have no reader's digest version"

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possible confusion at cutaway time



If having 2 metal handles cause confusion during a cutaway, I think it is time for some added training on EP. One is right, one is left. Hard to confuse. jmo.

Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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possible confusion at cutaway time



If having 2 metal handles cause confusion during a cutaway, I think it is time for some added training on EP. One is right, one is left. Hard to confuse. jmo.

Sparky



What's your take on Bill Booths ascertion that a metal cutaway handle if dilodged can more easily extract the cables from their housings?
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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What's your take on Bill Booths ascertion that a metal cutaway handle if dilodged can more easily extract the cables from their housings?



There are a few people in this sport that I listen to without question.

Bill Booth is one of them.

If he says its a bad idea....Its a bad idea.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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What's your take on Bill Booths ascertion that a metal cutaway handle if dilodged can more easily extract the cables from their housings?



There are a few people in this sport that I listen to without question.

Bill Booth is one of them.

If he says its a bad idea....Its a bad idea.



Bill ruled out a "regular" handle even before he finished designing the thing (I worked for him at the time). Even the orange PVC stuff we were using for main and reserve handles at the time worried him. When you are not under canopy, there is no tension on the system and it is VERY easy to extract the "cables."

I would never say to anyone not to think of new things or try to improve existing things. But, to alter a well thought out proven system like this one, you'd better consider the reasons for everything Bill put into the design first (and that's not easy, I promise you).

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Roger "Ramjet" Clark
FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

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What I've always wondered is why has nobody (that I know of) made a cutaway pad with a hole in it (to stick a thumb through for better grip)? Just seems like an easy way to get the best of all the types of cutaway handles. Since I've never seen one, I assume there's a really good reason that it doesn't work like I'd expect. What is the reason?

Dave

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possible confusion at cutaway time



If having 2 metal handles cause confusion during a cutaway, I think it is time for some added training on EP. One is right, one is left. Hard to confuse. jmo.

Sparky



What's your take on Bill Booths ascertion that a metal cutaway handle if dilodged can more easily extract the cables from their housings?



my take again, if you're worried about D-Ring as your cutaway handle, but have it as your reserve handle, it makes no sense. if you have two pillows, it's a different story.

my personal opinion, for me and for my type of flying i do, two D-rings are more appropirate.

unless it's snug on something, it's really hard to dislodge the rings.

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it's not about defying gravity; it's how hard you can abuse it. speed skydiving it is ...
Speed Skydiving Forum

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What I've always wondered is why has nobody (that I know of) made a cutaway pad with a hole in it (to stick a thumb through for better grip)? Just seems like an easy way to get the best of all the types of cutaway handles. Since I've never seen one, I assume there's a really good reason that it doesn't work like I'd expect. What is the reason?



I have seen righs with soft cutaway loops. Parachute de France offers them on their Atoms. Semi-stiff "soft" loop.

Attached is a different concept - a photo of the cutaway handle with a pocket (not hole) in it. After what Bill Booth said, probably it is not such a good idea. If dislodged in freefall, it would catch more air (due to a pocket) and possibly extract the cutaway cables.

Here is the thread on that handle: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=187982#187982

Blue Skies!

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my take again, if you're worried about D-Ring as your cutaway handle, but have it as your reserve handle, it makes no sense. if you have two pillows, it's a different story.



From Bill Booth's post, few posts above: "When a metal RESERVE ripcord handle comes loose, the pressure from the pilot chute spring on the pin will usually keep the reserve shut. However, there is no such tension on the 3-ring system, so if the handle comes loose, the whole system is much more likely to come apart."

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my take again, if you're worried about D-Ring as your cutaway handle, but have it as your reserve handle, it makes no sense. if you have two pillows, it's a different story.



From Bill Booth's post, few posts above: "When a metal RESERVE ripcord handle comes loose, the pressure from the pilot chute spring on the pin will usually keep the reserve shut. However, there is no such tension on the 3-ring system, so if the handle comes loose, the whole system is much more likely to come apart."



i saw that post. with D ring, matching parts of velcro lock around the ring , making it really hard to
dislodge in first place, unless it's snagged on something. with lower profile than pillow and fact, that
majority of my jumps are speed dives with no one near me, i, personally, opted for 2 D rings.

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it's not about defying gravity; it's how hard you can abuse it. speed skydiving it is ...
Speed Skydiving Forum

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What's your take on Bill Booths ascertion that a metal cutaway handle if dilodged can more easily extract the cables from their housings?



There are a few people in this sport that I listen to without question.

Bill Booth is one of them.

If he says its a bad idea....Its a bad idea.


Toatally agree Ron, I was just interestedin Sparkys' view on it, that's all:)
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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saw that post. with D ring, matching parts of velcro lock around the ring , making it really hard to
dislodge in first place, unless it's snagged on something



Reserve ripcords come out. They come out more than pillows. Same setup, but the weight of the metal D ring makes them come out more.

Bill Booth one of the pioneers of the sport, AND THE INVENTOR OF THE THREE RING RELEASE gave you his reasons why a metal handle is bad.

Simply put there is little to no preasure on the three rings if the parachute is not open.

Just the weight of the handle is enough to pull the cable through the three rings causing the release of the canopy.

I fail to see how anyone can disagree with the guy that INVENTED the three rigs *about the very product he invented*:S

Three ring releases changed the sport.

Bill knows what he is talking about.

If you CHOOSE to trade one risk (The risk of your handle comming out at 200 MPH and the drag pulling your cables out and releasing your main forcing you to use your reserve). For the tiny reward of less drag (When you could easily make a pillow smaller, or use the plastic loop cutaway handle)

Thats your choice...I think its a poor choice.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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If you CHOOSE to trade one risk (The risk of your handle comming out at 200 MPH and the drag pulling your cables out and releasing your main forcing you to use your reserve). For the tiny reward of less drag (When you could easily make a pillow smaller, or use the plastic loop cutaway handle)



less drag was never my intention. better grip was. and using your argument about plastic loop cutaway handle, why not use the same for reserve then ?

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it's not about defying gravity; it's how hard you can abuse it. speed skydiving it is ...
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why not use the same for reserve then



Because there is a much lower risk that a metal d-ring reserve handle will cause an early reserve deployment simply though it's own weight because the pressure of the reserve pc spring and closing loop on the ripcord will hold the weight of the d-ring. The same cannot be said of the cutaway system.

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