whatever 0 #1 April 21, 2004 I think most people will agree that the recommended way to go is S A E B, but then there are always other factors that make what we do in reality different to what we would do ideally... looking forward to hearing which way you went take it easy, sam soon to be gone Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 0 #3 April 21, 2004 Let me preface this by saying that I'm a skydiver with no BASE jumps. I can see the reasoning behind S first. Care to explain the reasoning behind the order A E B? In some ways all of those are very similar (180 degrees behind you is a wall), but I guess on an antenna that wall is skinnier, if that helps. And I could see putting B last just because in the real world, B's I would imagine are hardest to access and offer least in the choice of landing areas. But fundamentally a A, E, or B in the middle of the desert would be the same jumping experience, no? I plan to jump someday and will probably just go S E. Because of a gov't job, I'm not trespassing an A or B anytime soon...www.WingsuitPhotos.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whatever 0 #4 April 21, 2004 QuoteLet me preface this by saying that I'm a skydiver with no BASE jumps. I can see the reasoning behind S first. Care to explain the reasoning behind the order A E B? In some ways all of those are very similar (180 degrees behind you is a wall), but I guess on an antenna that wall is skinnier, if that helps. And I could see putting B last just because in the real world, B's I would imagine are hardest to access and offer least in the choice of landing areas. But fundamentally a A, E, or B in the middle of the desert would be the same jumping experience, no? I plan to jump someday and will probably just go S E. Because of a gov't job, I'm not trespassing an A or B anytime soon... OK, here goes... since I'm bored and at work, I'm going to post why I think S - A - E - B is the way to go so, please keep in mind that I'm a self-confessed newbie and a lowtimer in skydiving and let me know if my thinking is flawed here... S : first - we all agree, as you can remove any real risk of object strike and you are bound to have a good selection of objects, some of which will have nice easy landings and outs too A : second - there are quite a few of these around, they generally present less object strike risk than an E (way less than a B), the wind blows through them, unlike E's and B's - therefore the object itself creates no really dangerous wind effects - and in the correct conditions a little wind on these can even be benefitial. landing areas are bound to be better than most B's and on par or better than most E's E : third - significant risk of object strike, although some do offer nice overhangs, some offer lots of altitude to establish seperation, but that makes your launch and tracking skills that much more critical. the wind conditions are a much more critical factor here. landings can be quite nice, but in general are likely to be less so than A's and with less outs (if any) B : last - the wind blows around them, and probably around some other B's close by too. access. landing areas are generally difficult. signicant risk of object strike. limited altitude. but that's just what I think - I'd love to hear some experienced jumpers' comments on these.. soon to be gone Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #5 April 21, 2004 A-400ft- Thanks 767 E-270ft- Thanks 811 and 813 B-240ft- Thanks 813 and 811 S-143ft- Thanks Faber you hooked your ass off that S yourself and got #850besides that thanks to people who have helped this lonley wolf on his trip so fari owe some beers arround,you all know who you are... The # is a fun thing,i think it says more about the early #´s than the old #´s... now it has become a trend to get a BASE #,instead of experience... I will anyday respect a person more for his true experience than his #,a # is only 4 jumps to survive,experience is another issue. I know i have changed that oppinion after i got my #,but its how i see it now... Dosnt mean i dont have respect for the # thing just that it more has been a race against the clock to get the lowest #´s i dont think that is what Carl B and the rest of the guys meant about it.. Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 0 #6 April 21, 2004 QuoteS-143ft- Thanks Faber you hooked your ass off that S yourself and got #850 That's low. Over water? Land in the water? I've jumped a 75ft span. Without a parachute. Just jumped feet first and got wet. :)www.WingsuitPhotos.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #7 April 21, 2004 SL over water,got 4 sec of canopy time and just made it into dryland ½m from the water.I desided to jump it over dryland next time,it hasnt been time yet... I thourght i should land in water,but as the canopy were open i realized that i might could make it to dryland,which i did.. im sure my gear were happy for that.. I had only made some solo test jumps of my SL setup from 400ft and knew that it would work,as i were really high on thouse jumps... ohh and #700 were the guy that made that jump posible as he send me loads of breakcord Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #8 April 21, 2004 QuoteBut fundamentally a A, E, or B in the middle of the desert would be the same jumping experience, no? NO. Not even close, actually. The primary consideration here is the wind, and what it will do as it rolls around the solid surfaces surrounding your opening zone. Nine times out of ten, an object strike occurs not because of the size of the surface, but because the wind was blowing the canopy back into the object, or creating turbulence that took control of the canopy away from the jumper. On an antenna, the wind will pretty much just blow straight through. Turbulence created by the structure is minimal, and you can jump with a good wind at your back. This means that a smooth, friendly airflow will blow you _away_ from potential object strike, making a 180 a much safer experience. The best wind conditions for jumping an antenna are strong winds from behind--which make the object virtually unstrikable. The wind will blow over the top of most cliffs (some cliffs are more like pillars, so they need to be treated like buildings for wind, and some are in canyons, which have their own considerations). This means that a tailwind you feel at exit can flow over the top of the cliff and down, creating a downdraft at opening. A downdraft at opening, especially at low (i.e. slider down, i.e. those cliffs out in the desert) airspeed can be very bad. As your canopy expands, the downdraft can blow the expanded portions down through the still inflating portions, toward the jumper. This scenario can lead to all kinds of bad things, starting with collapsed cells, and moving up to tension knots and lineovers caused by lines going slack during the inflation sequence. The best wind conditions for jumping a cliff are zero winds. Failing that, crosswinds are generally safer than either head or tailwinds, but analysis of the individual cliff and surrounding formations is critical to understanding what the wind will do to the canopy during and after opening. The wind blows around a building. So exiting a building in a strong tailwind is actually a bad idea. Strong winds coming around the downwind corners will create rotors, which will roll back into the downwind face of the building, creating both turbulence _and_ a general relative headwind (i.e. blowing you back into the building) at opening. Analyzing the wind on a building is very tricky, and includes the shape of the building, the direction of the wind, and the locations and shapes of surrounding buildings. A cliff in a canyon has many of the same considerations. Ideally, buildings should be jumped in zero wind. If you must jump in wind, be sure you understand what's going on with all the wind, and all the things that effect it, both at opening and everywhere you could potentially fly (or end up after clearing a malfunction, or get blown by the wind) after opening. QuoteI plan to jump someday and will probably just go S E. Because of a gov't job, I'm not trespassing an A or B anytime soon... Just remember that you are skipping steps in your progression, and be cautious and aware of that. Antennas are far safer than cliffs and buildings. In fact, a good antenna with a strong tailwind can be safer than an intermediate bridge.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whatever 0 #9 April 21, 2004 ***I'm about 4 1/2 years from my "qualifying" BASE jump (my 'A').*** uhm, Tom did I not understand that quote at all? Or is this a case of a subsequent conversion to the belief that A's are far safer than B's and E's? inquiring minds would like to know... soon to be gone Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #10 April 21, 2004 Quote...is this a case of a subsequent conversion to the belief that A's are far safer than B's and E's? Well, I think I knew that all along. But knowing what is safe, and acting in the safest possible manner are two different things. The order I did the jumps was S-E-B-A. I made my first jump (S) on September 1. I then had to wait about 4 weeks for my gear. Then, I made four more jumps from the same S, then went on a road trip to Bridge Day (from California) with my mentor. My next jumps were, in order, E1,E1,E2,E3,E3,S2,S2,S3,S4,S4,S4,S2,S5,B,A,E4 (where the numbers indicate different objects). What's the old saying about experience and judgment? Something about good judgment coming from experience, I think?-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manship 0 #11 April 21, 2004 Interesting query. For Day BASE I went: S,E,A,B But for Night BASE it Went: S,B,E,A========================================== I didn't invent skydiving, but I jumped with the guys who did. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whatever 0 #12 April 21, 2004 Quote Well, I think I knew that all along. But knowing what is safe, and acting in the safest possible manner are two different things. The order I did the jumps was S-E-B-A. I made my first jump (S) on September 1. I then had to wait about 4 weeks for my gear. Then, I made four more jumps from the same S, then went on a road trip to Bridge Day (from California) with my mentor. My next jumps were, in order, E1,E1,E2,E3,E3,S2,S2,S3,S4,S4,S4,S2,S5,B,A,E4 (where the numbers indicate different objects). What's the old saying about experience and judgment? Something about good judgment coming from experience, I think? S-E-B-A eh? That makes us 2 for 2 right now, but the next letter I get will definitely be A rather than B. I used to be quite set on getting a number with 3 digits, but now I don’t really care what it turns out to be. I need to feel I’m ready for a specific object and also know that I’m prepared and I know I have quite a ways to go before I stand on the edge of a B and know that I’ve done enough preparation that I’m willing to push off and roll the dice. So you did your first E around 10-14 jumps and your first B somewhere around 20-27 jumps? Yeah, that saying, with that in mind, what are your thoughts on the progression through objects by type and jump numbers? Must’ve been a real bad-ass who got B A S E by getting B-A-S-E… soon to be gone Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDaemon 0 #13 April 21, 2004 QuoteWhat's the old saying about experience and judgment? Something about good judgment coming from experience, I think? After my plethora of skydives (99) my jumps were: A1, (500ft) (First fixed object jump, 100th parachute jump) A1, (300ft) A2, (1700ft) A2, (1700ft) E1, (3.200ft) E2, (900ft/2000ft) S1, (155ft) B1 (180ft) (where the numbers indicate different objects). I would NOT recommend this route to anyone... be careful, ambition can kill you. "But the good news is, I don't have a personality that's prone to addiction" ;-)find / -name jumpers -print; cat jumpers $USER > manifest; cd /dev/airplane; more altitude; make jump; cd /pub; more beer; Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #14 April 22, 2004 QuoteA2, (1700ft) A2, (1700ft) E1, (3.200ft) -- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #15 April 22, 2004 QuoteSo you did your first E around 10-14 jumps and your first B somewhere around 20-27 jumps? Actually first E was jump number 6, as I recall. And the B was around jump 16 or 17. That old log book is in California, so I'm not sure about the exact numbers. This is one of those cases where BASE is really, really, a case of "Do as I Say, not as I Do." Please, don't anyone do what I did.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDaemon 0 #16 April 22, 2004 ***This is one of those cases where BASE is really, really, a case of "Do as I Say, not as I Do." Please, don't anyone do what I did. *** I couldn't agree more. I wouldn't recommend anyone else follow the pattern I did. My mentors at the time were hesistant, skeptical yet generous and very wise at best, and insane at worst. Although I do need to extend my thanks and appreciation to them for helping follow my ambitions. They're fine individuals who assisted in achieving my goals, and for that they have my gratitude. Thanks for the A2 and E1 Tom :-) (they were both awesome!) :-) Special thanks to Dwain and Doug for A1, E2, S1, and B1 :-)find / -name jumpers -print; cat jumpers $USER > manifest; cd /dev/airplane; more altitude; make jump; cd /pub; more beer; Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base311 0 #17 April 22, 2004 yeah I saw that and I was thinkin' good gawd.. some folks just don't have any idea how good they got it. gardner Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #18 April 22, 2004 Did he mention that was with an elevator? And that E? Yep, it was _that_ E...-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skydawg 0 #19 April 22, 2004 S1 x 5 - 265ft E1 x 2 - 800ft E2 x 8 - 600ft A1 x 1 - 350ft E1 x 11/12? - 800ft E3/4/5/6 X 70ish - 200ft to 800ft B1 hasn't happened yet Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manship 0 #20 April 22, 2004 QuoteQuoteA2, (1700ft) A2, (1700ft) E1, (3.200ft) ^ |_________ BET I know what that smile means! Thanks again Tom for taking me on a jump I have been wanting to do ever since they made it illegal (again). I'll always owe you for that one. I say that because it is something one can't repay,so I'll just have to owe ya forever! It still brings smileys to my face when I think of it. later, t========================================== I didn't invent skydiving, but I jumped with the guys who did. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bor 0 #21 April 22, 2004 Why is this famous usa cliff illegal? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #22 April 22, 2004 QuoteWhy is this famous usa cliff illegal? It's a long story, with lots of sides and different perspectives. In my opinion, it's mostly that we (i.e. BASE jumpers) were not sufficiently respectful of the site and other people around, and were not sufficiently careful in our interactions with the governing authority. If you want more history, I'd suggest wandering over to BLiNC and starting a discussion there. There are lots of folks who can give you the various sides.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZegeunerLeben 0 #23 April 22, 2004 Quote Did he mention that was with an elevator?... >>Actually it no longer works...if you want to jump it now you gotta work for it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #24 April 22, 2004 QuoteQuote Did he mention that was with an elevator?... >>Actually it no longer works...if you want to jump it now you gotta work for it! Foolish young jedi... You must learn the power of the Dark Side...-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #25 April 22, 2004 QuoteFor Day BASE I went: S,E,A,B There's a Day BASE? I need a trip to the tater S..."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
