"The Sorcerer"

[321Cya 0]

Gus,

I think you're 'on' the mark there. The altitude you loose after the cutaway occurs when the reserve comes out of its freebag. Normally you will start dropping straight after a cutaway and loose much more. Therefore it does look like a static line, or maybe even a direct bag opening.

In case of the skyhook you're basically attached to your 'mega' pilot chute, which is your main untill the whole lot is released (read: reserve out of freebag)

see picture

The altitude lost is just the opening altitude of the reserve and no freefall!

The reserve itself is packed in a normal way for skydiving.

J.

PS: More info here http://www.relativeworkshop.com/pdt_skyhook.html (and you'll see the Sourcerer is even mentioned there!!)

www.vandrunen.ch

[Faber 0]

i would tend to say the same as you Gus

Quote

The Skyhook then uses your departing malfunctioned main canopy as a super pilot chute to deploy your reserve canopy, taking about ½ second from breakaway to line stretch (reserve canopy out of the bag). This is 3 to 4 times faster than a pilot chute can do alone, and means that the average sport reserve can be open in 75 to 80 feet after breakaway.

taken from http://www.relativeworkshop.com/pdt_skyhook.html
which 321cya gave me on msn(cheers)

I wonder how they do that by a slider up(sports reserve= sailslider...)...

edit spell of name,sorry mate

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[hookitt 0]

The system just uses the Main as a Pilot chute and drags the Freebag out of the container and off of the reserve. Then it's just a plain ole deployment.

To give you an example of how quick a small reserve opens, I did a cutaway in front of my old team mate Evan. From an open canopy, I took a 1 second delay and had an open canopy in an additional 2 seconds. T

It was a stock Eclipse with a Micro Raven 135. The spring loaded Pilot chute is rather heavy.

With a terminal deployment it would still be around the same amount of time, but the distance would be greater.

When you use the skyhook, it's practically a static line jump. Reserves with Microline and low airspeed will inflate very rapidly. Keep in mind that reserves are generally less than 200 square feet with a large portion of them being 170ish and less.

Jumpshack used to claim 64 feet using an RSL activated reserve deployment. I'd say it was closer to 100 but still that's with out a skyhook.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[hookitt 0]

Quote

I wonder how they do that by a slider up(sports reserve= sailslider...).

No airspeed to hold the slider up. Also, microline is used on almost all reserves so it's a nice and slippery surface for the big brass number 8 Grommets to slide on.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[Faber 0]

i cant belive if a sail slider canopy can open faster than a modern BASE canopy
guess im going out to buy one now

i think theres messed up whith canopy out/flying..

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[Faber 0]

hmm we learn each day huh..

how fast does a BASE canopy open at a regular SL?

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[321Cya 0]

Quote

Jumpshack used to claim 64 feet using an RSL activated reserve deployment. I'd say it was closer to 100 but still that's with out a skyhook.

I witnessed John (Jumpshack) and Bill (RWS) having a chat while watching a Skyhook testjump...


...more than interesting!

J.

www.vandrunen.ch

[cornishe 0]

1)Why did we revive a thread from 2003, Historian?

2)Wasn't Mark Hewitt (inventor of the Sorcerer) working for/with RWS when he came up with the idea?

3)What ever happend to that guy? Still alive?

-A

Abbie Mashaal
Skydive Idaho
Snake River Skydiving
TandemBASE

[Faber 0]

how fast does the 2 canopy in the soorcer open?

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[TomAiello 25]

Hmmm. So work with me on though process. I ought to be able to get a very fast opening if I used a very small canopy (like a skydiving reserve size). Will that thing be landable in those altitudes? In other words, could I potentially freefall 150' (with no object strike potential, so no off-heading worries) into a good landing area, on a regular basis? What do you think?

Do you think the microlines contribute to a faster opening without a slider?

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[hookitt 0]

Regular basis? Heck I don't know. I'd have to try a Micro raven small off the perrine to figure it out.

The problem I would see is a Large Pilot chute and a tiny canopy.

I'd say it could be opened consistantly but how it would fly I wouldn't want to guess. In the skydiving world it obviously doesn't matter much since the PC is gone, and there's nothing to hit and altitude is available.

So I bet it would open, but landable? I don't know. I happen to have a MR 120 to try out though.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[Faber 0]

Quote

I happen to have a MR 120 to try out though

bad idea they land hard anyway i tryed it 2 times in a pink one(whith Neon yellow packing strips actualy),i wont recomend landing them other than just to save your life,probaly whith some bruises..

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[hookitt 0]

hehe... Thanks Faber. I have a few landings on that canopy and various other small reserves already. Besides the Patato bridge has a large slow moving river to land in and I've yet to do that. Next year when the river isn't icey I'll bring it along.I wondered what to do with that parachute since it wasn't being used as a reserve any more.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[CrazyThomas 0]

Quote

i cant belive if a sail slider canopy can open faster than a modern BASE canopy
guess im going out to buy one now

i think theres messed up whith canopy out/flying..

I am not sure here Faber, but from what I have heard, a slider fights the wind. The relative wind is what the slider is fighting against to slide down the lines. It is why a mesh slider travels down faster than a sail slider.
But, let's say, at a given relative wind speed of 0mph and 0kph, how much airspeed does a slider have to fight?

Yep...you guessed it..NONE. The canopy also has zero air to open with, therefore won't....but we are talking small fractions of mph or kph.......
Granted I would not be the first to take a sail slider up off a 350 foot building, but from the past, it has been done, and done successfully.
NOTE: Please don't try this at home, or any other building around your way.

This really isn't Thomas misconception I am trying to spread. I have actually heard from someone else the theory brought forth that a slider up go and throw is not much different than a slider down go and throw.

The only phenomenon about this I have experienced is slider up off the potato. Too short a delay <2sec, is still a WHACK. 2.5 to 3 becomes a "fluffy fluffy fluffy" opening. With no air to fight, the slider WILL come down quickly, and hence perform a slider down opening.....WHACK.

What about slider rebound? Wasn't that a theory at one point?

And how about direct slider control? Let's chat about this. Direct slider control is what? Putting yet ANOTHER rubber band into the system? One for the line stow byte, and another to secure the slider above the rubber band already in place?
I understand the concept of direct slider control, yet I fail to see the value.
How can one rubber band be different than two? Once force yanks one off, the second follows off quickly after.

Or so common misconceptions go....


Thomas

[peterk 0]

I can't imagine having any on-heading certainty with a zero delay slider up opening. It might open as fast, but...

---------------
Peter
BASE - The Ultimate Victimless Crime

[bps 0]

I agree with the point that Thomas and others have made: a slider-up canopy with zero airspeed has the potential to open up very quickly since there is no air pressure to hold the slider up.

I've actually been testing this idea for sometime.

This morning on an Ace 280, composite ZP, and large-hole mesh slider, I did a go and pitch (stowed). I was open just as high as a 1 1/2 second delay slider down.

A few days ago, I did a slider-up PCA (same equipment/rigging) and was open approx 10-15ft lower than a slider down PCA.

Same set-up but with a 2 1/2 second delay -- a measurably slower opening.

Undoubtedly, a slider slows down the opening by reefing the lines. But at very low airspeeds, it doesn't slow down the openings that much! (assuming that you are using an airfoil that opens rapidly and pressurizes well)

Bryan

[historian 0]

Hi, Actually I do not where Mark Hewitt BASE# 46 is right now.
Mark invented the "Sorcerer" Rig that has proven to save lives on high altitude BASE Jumps. Mark is a wonderful Very Smart Person, who has contributed with many BASE inventions during the Very Early years of BASE. I think Mark has 5 BASE inventions ! Mark helped myself and Many Many others during the Early years of BASE.
On another note: "Slim" a friend of almost every one, Probabally wishes he was Jumping a "Sorcerer"!
Thank You,
Gerald Harendza
Night BASE 24

[NickDG 23]

Hi Gerald,

Long time no see . . .

I don't think I've ever heard of an "actual save" on a Sorcerer. If there has been one (or more) please let me know. (I'd want to get that right in the book).

I have, of course, seen many funaways on the system, and I've came to the conclusion that basically, that's the niche that rig fit into.

Mark, however, does have countless saves to his credit since he showed us the line mod back in the day. I was jumping a bagged sail slider deployed, steering lines through everything Cruiselite from a local tower when I met Mark for the first time in 1985. He walked up to me, looked at my set-up and said, "You're an asshole."

It was the beginning of a wonderful relationship . . .

NickD BASE 194

[pBASEtobe 0]

Quote

snip.....But at very low airspeeds, it doesn't slow down the openings that much!.....snip

I'm not sure I agree with this. Check out this video of a PCA (thanks DexterBase) I did with a MESH slider on a vented Fox 225.
Clicky