0
CanuckInUSA

Which is more dangerous

Recommended Posts

If it were up to me, and wouldn't get me banned from skydiving, I would make every skydive with a BASE rig.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ha ha just to spear thwe mony from a cypress and a reserve?
i like the idea,but i would still use skydive gear for skydives(well atleast most of them;))

I might explained myself wrong.I mean that in most cases under a skydive i want to use skydive gear.as the rule here is that i need to be in the saddel at 2000ft then i see no reason not to wearing a reserve.I aslso like my cypress,in the case i should get knoced out on a skydive.however if i do a really low jump then i rather jump my BASE gear,but NEVER skydive gear on a BASE..

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

I do belive that you DONT understand.But if you have knowleged that we dont have,then please tell...

so when we freefall 200ft we should cut our main,and pull the reserve?sorry,it wont work...



That's my exact point, at 2000 ft it would work, at 200 it wouldn't (as you pointed out). As it's already been said countless times in this thread, you have one chance on a BASE jump, but two chances (and much more time/margin for error) on a skydive. That's a significant difference (and not simply a factor of 2, regardless of how much attention BASE jumpers pay to their gear). The largest amount of incidents on the fatality page were due to cliff strikes, but pretty close behind were incidents related to the "one chance, time-critical" nature of BASE. Hence my continued belief that it is still a significant risk. Though I do understand it's NOT THE ONLY ONE.

Quote

If it were up to me, and wouldn't get me banned from skydiving, I would make every skydive with a BASE rig.



Out of curiosity, why? I hope you still don't think I'm trolling you... if we look back far enough we'll see the original point of this thread was the comparison between swooping and BASE, which inherently is going to bring in a skydiver's perspective. I expressed an idea based on the knowledge I had at the time that a BASE jump was only as dangerous as the altitude, and a swoop was only as dangerous as the wing loading. Obviously in both cases that is an over simplification, and I got a lot of replies from experienced BASErs telling me how unimportant low altitude was compared to the other risks... I agree now that there are greater risks but I still feel that based on theoretical and real statistics, the low altitude/time risk still is comparable to them and significant, not to be overlooked entirely.

That said, I'm not trying to create an argument about which sport is better. I think BASE is cool as hell and respect the shit out of you guys for jumping off of stuff measured in hundreds instead of thousands of feet. :) Maybe some day I'll join but I probably don't have the balls...
www.WingsuitPhotos.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Yeh, but we were comparing BASE to general skydiving,



To me I dont think you can compare the two really. Its like comparing paragliding / BASE / Skydiving / or any other parachuting activity - some things you do in each that are not compatable / relevant to the others. Basics are they all use a parachute of one way or another but generally and to the core they are all different beasts. As people had previously stated I would never take a skydive rig off any BASE jump - 200ft - 20,000ft (I wish!) :P just because in some jumps the alititude you participate crosses both skydiving / BASE does not mean it becomes a skydive environment.

Next time you play golf go use a hockey stick - same sort of ball sport - (hitting a small ball with a stick like thing) but in essence 2 completly different beasts.............

My 0.02 whislt bored shitless at work hoping the wind will die down!! fucking UK!!!

Be safe always

PS) I feel safer jumping my BASE rig than my skydiving rig!! B|

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

PS) I feel safer jumping my BASE rig than my skydiving rig!!



I'm sure your landings are a LOT safer... ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

I expressed an idea based on the knowledge I had at the time that a BASE jump was only as dangerous as the altitude,



The point we're trying to make is that more altitude does not make a BASE jump necessarily safer. Take the cliffs in Norway and Italy. Many, many fatalities have occurred there notwithstanding the fact that those cliffs are 3000+ feet in height. That's because the structure of those objects is such that the risk of object strike exists no matter how high they are.

Quote

and a swoop was only as dangerous as the wing loading.



Wingloading, experience and, ironically enough, altitude, are all factors in swooping.

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

I expressed an idea based on the knowledge I had at the time that a BASE jump was only as dangerous as the altitude,



The point we're trying to make is that more altitude does not make a BASE jump necessarily safer. Take the cliffs in Norway and Italy. Many, many fatalities have occurred there notwithstanding the fact that those cliffs are 3000+ feet in height. That's because the structure of those objects is such that the risk of object strike exists no matter how high they are.



I agree.

Quote

Quote

and a swoop was only as dangerous as the wing loading. Obviously in both cases that is an over simplification



Wingloading, experience and, ironically enough, altitude, are all factors in swooping.



Point taken. Notice in the following sentence I said I was aware that was an over-simplification. ;)
www.WingsuitPhotos.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

The original point was whether or not the low altitude of BASE makes it much more dangerous than regular skydiving. I still think it does (not so much the altitude, but the inability to recover from a single malfunction or late pull or slow opening), in addition to the many other things which make it dangerous.



Hmm, well phrased that way I suppose one must agree with you. BASE is much less forgiving of errors than skydiving or most any other sport. things happen fast; problems escalate quickly if not avoided or addressed with precision immediately during a jump.

Nonetheless, those of us who have pushed limits in one way or another in BASE really don't lose sleep at night worrying about "low altitude," not carring a reserve, or mysterious canopy malfunctions.

We worry about over-delaying and getting a snivel, flubbing aerials and entangling in our gear, or jumping new exitpoints that are too underhung to clear consistently. Most of al, we worry about off-headings and object strike under canopy, on each and every jump off hard objects.

It is difficult to explain the dynamics of BASE to skydivers, as the primary drivers of BASE effectiveness are essentially orthogonal to those in skydiving. In BASE we have no mother-bear that sets rules and regulations within which we must operate. Thus, we rely on our own judgment, experience, and wisdom in making decisions. In doing so, we hone or ability to dynamically manage risk - something essentially unnecessary in skydiving, where safety is achieved through uniform rules and statistical management. In BASE, all the statistics in the world don't mean much since each jump is essentially a statistical singularity.

Peace,

D-d0g
BASE 715
+~+~+~+~
But this, surely, was the glory that no spirits, canine or human, had ever clearly seen, the light that never was on land or sea, and yet is glimpsed by the quickened mind everywhere.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ahh, sweet pic, D-dog! A little bit different than the summity type look people have on their faces after going UP a cliff... B|

---------------------------------------------
let my inspiration flow,
in token rhyme suggesting rhythm...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

ahh, sweet pic, D-dog!



I concur. What's that vertical bit off in the distance??? Looks like a promising area for sure.

Gardner

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yep. That look sort of captures the essence of it, doesn't it?

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wew! I've read the whole thread, and two things come to mind:

First, on average, a BASE jump is clearly more dangerous than a skydiving swoop/high performance landing/hookturn/label du jour.

While accurate stats are going to be hard to come by, I have no doubt that each day, far more swoops are performed than BASE jumps. Yet, if the last years trend continues, BASE will soon claim more lives each year than skydiving, even with less participants. >:(

This isn't to say that all base jumps are more dangerous than all swoops. An overzealous and poorly prepared/unexperienced skydiver could easily be taking a bigger risk attempting to swoop a student canopy than a run of the mill base jumper might be taking jumping a 450' bridge with a properly packed and maintained modern base gear.

And now my main reason for responding (are you listening skydivers?):

Second: It's true that a disturbing proportion of skydiving fatalities now occur under fully functional main canopies.
However, IMHO, far too many of them are attributed to botched swoops, when in reality, they were more fundamental errors made by people that weren't trying to swoop at all.
An example would be someone making a low turn in an attempt to land into the wind or avoid an obstacle.
If one reads the fatality reports, I think you'll notice a lot of statements along the lines of "the deceased was not known to do high performance landings..." or "...was a conservative canopy pilot..."

My point is certainly not that swoops aren't dangerous, but rather that NOT swooping doesn't necessarily make one a safe skydiver.

It's all about knowing your gear, learning as much as possible about your sport(s), and knowing and pushing your personal limits in incremental steps.

Remember, if it looks easy when someone else does it, it just might be because they've practiced it a helluva lot!
-Josh
If you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive. -Me*
*Ron has accused me of plagiarizing this quote. He attributes it to Douglas Adams.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
0