Is a Sabre 2 190 loaded at 1.05 too much?

[KrisFlyZ 0]

I have 23 jumps total. I started on a Sabre 230 and moved to the Sabre 190(via the 210) on my 18th jump. I don't have issues with flying a pattern and most of my landings were accurate to 30 m. I completed the accuracy requirements for the A-license around the 16th jump.

I weigh 170(with Cast etc.) now. I would be loading the 190 at 1.05. I will be not be jumping if the conditions even seem remotely unsavoury.

So is 1.05 too much? I will be starting out again on the 230(due to the downtime...read incident posted by me) and working my way down.

[Blahr 0]

This is for the experienced instructors that have seen you fly to answer.

[koz2000 1]

I think the best answer is to go ask your DZO, S&TA, or your instructor. No one on DZ.com knows your abilities (unless they're at your DZ). I was at a similar wing loading at the same jump number and had no problem but I took things extremely slowly (no low turns...) The Sabre2 is still a very docile canopy when loaded at 1.05. You will also have to look at your abilities and determine if you are HONESTLY ready to downsize. Be safe.
D

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- Does this small canopy make my balls look big? - J. Hayes -

[Nightingale 0]

from my own experience:

I have 22 jumps. I'm wingloading at .75. My landings are spot on, in the circle at perris for the last 8 times I've jumped there.

at this point in my jumping life, I would not dream of a 1.03 wingloading, especially with a cast.

Talk to your instructors. I'm just relating my own experience here.

Also, a cast could make your freefall difficult. you will have more weight on one side than on the other, which can make it difficult to maintain stability. You'll also be foot heavy (I thought you said you broke your ankle), and landing with a cast on your foot can't be easy.

[KrisFlyZ 0]

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I think the best answer is to go ask your DZO, S&TA, or your instructor.

The DZO recommended a Sabre 2 170. But then he was going to sell me one so....

[KrisFlyZ 0]

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from my own experience:

I have 22 jumps. I'm wingloading at .75. My landings are spot on, in the circle at perris for the last 8 times I've jumped there.

at this point in my jumping life, I would not dream of a 1.03 wingloading, especially with a cast.

Talk to your instructors. I'm just relating my own experience here.

Also, a cast could make your freefall difficult. you will have more weight on one side than on the other, which can make it difficult to maintain stability. You'll also be foot heavy (I thought you said you broke your ankle), and landing with a cast on your foot can't be easy.

I am not jumping for the next 4 months atleast. Until I can get back to running my 3 miles in 20 mins everyday.

[AndyMan 7]

A 1.0 wingloading at your experience level is very common at more progresive dropzones. At my DZ, it would be exceedingly rare that somebody is NOT at 1.0 by the time they get off student status.

I can not comment about how this is right for you, because i do not know what kind of training you've gone through.

That said, there is nothing in your post that set off alarm bells, except for the part about you having a cast. You're jumping unhealed injuries? This is a far bigger concern then the canopy.

_Am

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You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[KrisFlyZ 0]

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I am not jumping for the next 4 months atleast. Until I can get back to running my 3 miles in 20 mins everyday.

No I am not jumping with unhealed injuries. I will be enjoying a few months of "picnic bench jumping" sipping a hot beverage or a cold beer.

My Mirage G4 M5 is in production right now(paid a pretty penny for that). The largest Sabre 2 it will fit is a 190. I will start back on the Sabre 230 and go thru the whole canopy progression again.

Maybe I'll just store that and get an old H/C that can hold a ZP 230.

[JYorkster 0]

Well, I read your incident post, and it sounds like you downsized too quickly once already. Do you want to do that again?

I'm not saying that 1.05 is necessarily too much, but what's wrong with a .95 wing loading (210 sq ft)?

Think about WHY you think you need to down size, and compare that to having another accident. What's the hurry?

Just my 2 cents,
Rock

[pilotdave 0]

If your instructors think its a good canopy for you, demo (or borrow) one and see how ya like it.

Dave

[KrisFlyZ 0]

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Well, I read your incident post, and it sounds like you downsized too quickly once already. Do you want to do that again?

I'm not saying that 1.05 is necessarily too much, but what's wrong with a .95 wing loading (210 sq ft)?

Think about WHY you think you need to down size, and compare that to having another accident. What's the hurry?

Just my 2 cents,
Rock

I have thought about that a Spectre 210 would fit my container and so would a PD210. So which one of those?

[KrisFlyZ 0]

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If your instructors think its a good canopy for you, demo (or borrow) one and see how ya like it.

Dave

I was jumping the Sabre 190 before the incident.

[marks 0]

why do you have the cast?.. landing problems?

1.05 isnt anything extreame unless your very poor at judging your altitude...

maybee this is why you have the cast?..

you need to take the advice of asking your local instructors... i would kill one of my students if they came to me and said so and so on dz.com said it was ok..

if your not going to jump for awhile ... incurrency is the mother of all fuck ups.... with your skill leval and not jumping for 4 months i would start all over again with the 230 or whatever it was.. somthing in that range and make a 25 jump proggression down to the 190..

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I will start back on the Sabre 230 and go thru the whole canopy progression again.

yes do that...

[koz2000 1]

definitely the Spectre 210 over the PD210. However if you're going to do the entire canopy progression again, you should be ok downsizing at least to a 190 if not 170. If your DZO is a PD dealer he should get you a 190 and 170 demo so you can try them both (in good conditions)

Reading your incident report, the winds had more impact than the canopy. Even a big canopy could have put you in the hurt locker with 30mph gusts.

______________________________________________
- Does this small canopy make my balls look big? - J. Hayes -

[JYorkster 0]

I personally don't think you'd be happy with a PD 210. But, PD recommended exit weight for both the Sabre2 210 and Spectre 210 is 189 pounds for a novice jumper. According to Paragear the pack volume for the Sabre2 is a little less than the Spectre. I know there's a lot of debate on how to calculate pack volumes, but you'd have to try one in your container to know for sure.

Most people would say my recommendations are too conservative. Some of those people have hardware in their body, where I do not.

Ask those that have seen you pilot your canopy what would be good for you, but use your own judgement as well. Be careful who you take advice from, especially if those are the same folks that let you jump in 25-30 mph winds with only 22 jumps.

Rock

[pilotdave 0]

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If your instructors think its a good canopy for you, demo (or borrow) one and see how ya like it.

Dave

I was jumping the Sabre 190 before the incident.

Sabre or Sabre2? Never jumped an original Sabre, but it's my understanding that they aren't particularly similar.

Dave

[rhino 0]

I think 1.0 to 1.05 is a very safe and conservative wing loading.. However.. I would recommend a 7 cell for a first canopy.. A triathlon would be perfect.. Spectres are good too.. They fly slower and shut down quicker..

[arlo 0]

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Maybe I'll just store that and get an old H/C that can hold a ZP 230.

ding ding.

[psuCory 0]

rhino,

KrisFlyZ comes from a DZ (my DZ actually) that starts students off on (mostly) Sabers (originals, not 2's), and has most likely never flown a 7 cell... Would you really recomend downsizing into a different planform?

I know I wouldn't reccomend that. (FYI, this is not a flame.... just a thought)

[Trent 0]

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....
Reading your incident report, the winds had more impact than the canopy. Even a big canopy could have put you in the hurt locker with 30mph gusts.

From seeing you land the 190 before your injury, I'd think that would be a fine canopy after you "re-downsize" to it when you're all healed up. Judging by your past canopy control (yes, I watched you a few times), you were definitely doing well enough to handle the 190. Just don't jump in shady wind conditions... :)

Oh, hello again!

[Junkers87 0]

I started jumping my Sabre 2 190 (loaded @ 1.09) after around forty jumps.

This canopy has an excellent flare, and is VERY forgiving. I've jumped some thirty-times now, and I always have landed on my feet not falling . On my jump no. 3 with the Sabre 2 I landed in gusty crosswing. Landing was no problem, and it was my first stand-up crosswind-landing.

[gemini 0]

Kris:

I started on a 210 as a student with an exit weight of 190 for a wingloading of .90. On my 20th jump the DZ moved me to a 190 (WL 1.0) and I ended up buying a Tri 175 (WL1.09) with around 30 jumps. At about 630 jumps I went to a Sabre2 150 (WL 1.27) and have over 700 jumps on it.

Your progression is very similar to mine in that you will be at 1.0 with around 33 jumps which should be fine for you. IMO the winds gusts were the problem the day you were injured, not your wingloading. Landing backward can be a challenge to anyone.

I agree that you should do a few jumps on the 230 or 210 to get current again, but I would not hesitate to rejump the 190 if my landings were all good under the larger canopy.

See you soon. Blues,

Blue skies,

Jim

[KrisFlyZ 0]

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I think the best answer is to go ask your DZO, S&TA, or your instructor.

The DZO recommended a Sabre 2 170. But then he was going to sell me one so....

Steve(DZO) was right when he said I could jump the 170. I never had problems with canopy control. Based on what he saw he was making the right call. The above statement by me was a way of assigning blame to individuals other than myself.

I was blaming people other than myself for getting injured, No one told me to jump the 170, I searched the whole DZ for it and found it in a corner in the packing room, the harness seemed a little uncomfortable, but I did'nt care. I had to jump the 170.

After sitting out three loads and listening to and laughing at jokes like, "On days like these the experienced people sit out and watch the inexperienced people get experienced" and knowing that some of the instructors were sitting out, I still had to get on that load.

It's easier to place the blame than to own up. Hopefully I have set the record straight.