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Rdutch

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In response to Richard's initial concerns about BASE being closed I can only say this. I believe that this varies alot depending on where one is in the U.S., and also internationally.

Here in the Pacific NW there is a deep and long tradition of mentorship of new jumpers. I look at some of our core jumpers from this area and try to imagine how many hundreds of hours they have spend teaching new-ish folks. . . they add up quickly. Financial renumeration for this? Zero.

Frankly, I don't know any experienced jumpers who won't mentor - myself included. Many of the best jumpers in the world are regularly mentoring folks. I know a very few crabby folks who think mentoring is not "cool," but every one of these people is unqualified to mentor in any case.

My first student just received his BASE number. It was my honor to share my knowledge of the sport with someone new. . . as those who taught me shared their knowledge with me. This is far from unusual.

Overall, I think that finding a mentor in BASE is massively easier than, say, finding a V10 boulderer to teach one how to pull hard. A few minutes online, a few emails to folks asking for advice/introductions, and a willingness to invest some time and energy in traveling to a mentor to learn firsthand - at their convenience - is all that's needed.

Please don't take this as a crabby statement, but one place you'll likely not find BASE folks experienced enough to mentor is at the DZ. Current, active BASE folks in general aren't at the DZ hanging out with the skydivers and bragging about their BASE exploits. Well, ok, my mentor was doing just that when I met him but we all know what he's like :o

If the net-based resources weren't around, then I could see how hooking up with the top tier of jumpers would be hard. However, with so many top jumpers only an email away, I just don't see the difficulty in finding world-class wisdom available for hire dirt cheap ($0).

BASE mentors take huge risks and invest lots of time and energy in teaching their students. Now, having moved from student to mentor, I can see this more clearly. Expecting mentors to somehow read your mind and seek you out is just unreasonable. There's an inherent reciprocity in the mentorship relationship, much the same as in the master/apprentice roles of professional skill groups.

If you want to learn how to be a competent, solid, knowledgeable BASE jumper then find someone who you respect in the sport and begin a dialogue about your potential involvement. If an anti-sociial dog like me can get mentored by the best, then anyone can.

Peace,

D-d0g

ps: CT is an example of what happens when someone gets into BASE with no mentorship. It's been offered to him by many folks, but he spurns it and we all have seen the results. Not pretty.

+~+~+~+~
But this, surely, was the glory that no spirits, canine or human, had ever clearly seen, the light that never was on land or sea, and yet is glimpsed by the quickened mind everywhere.

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Argh... less words than more.

BASE jumping is not skydiving.

Most experienced BASE jumpers will help you get into the sport, if that's actually what you want.

Not telling you where the nearest A is in the event that you think you can pop your reserve off of it is a way of protecting your ass, the object, and the sport.
"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

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i think both activities present the equal amount of dangers, albeit different types of dangers.



If this is really what you think, never BASE jump. BASE is FAR more dangerous than skydiving. RELATIVE deaths and injuries outweigh the same in skydiving many times over. Unless you're one of maybe less than two dozen or so people in the world, you WILL be SERIOUSLY injured or die if you stay in BASE long enough.

Next time you have an off-heading opening on a skydive, or a pilot-chute hesitation, or miss your desired pull altitude by 100 feet, just remember that it could kill you on a BASE jump.

And if you only want to jump legal sites, then you'll never be more than an ASE jumper (well, that's only as far as I got, too, so... er... but none of my jumps were legal), and most likely just a S jumper.

Personally, I realize the risks, and was willing to take them for a little while. When the relationship with my girlfriend started lasting unusually long (and still is), I quit BASE. The reason is that I know that if I continue BASE jumping, it will eventually kill me or put me out of commission for awhile. That is what you have to accept or reject. When you don't have anything to live for but yourself, it's worth it. Skydiving has it's dangers, but you have far less factors and a good chance of making to an age where you have to hang it up.

I'm not trying to be a dick or anything, I'm just trying to emphasize that the risks are far greater in BASE. Even if you are one of the lucky ones that goes on unscathed, accepting that you've sealed your fate with a commitment to BASE is part of the sport. Makes it fun... when you're single... oh, those days...
"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

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are you implying that you're a completely law abiding citizen? do you always keep your corvette under the speed limit? i think there is a time and place for every law, as well as one to break them.
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there are plenty of legal sites


yes, but think about how many MORE sites there are that are'nt legal. If Montana was the only place that still had no speed limits, would you drive all the way up there just to speed?

cp

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are you implying that you're a completely law abiding citizen?



yes, i am making that implication.

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do you always keep your corvette under the speed limit? i think there is a time and place for every law, as well as one to break them.



oh, heck no

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If Montana was the only place that still had no speed limits, would you drive all the way up there just to speed?



no, i buy laps at texas world speedway for that. and having statue and position in your hometown and surrounding communities helps as well. generally any good law enforcement representative will treat you as you present yourself, you want to be an a-hole, you get treated like an a-hole. you want to be cool, as a general rule, they will as well. for instance, let's say you have a CCL, so you've been at the watering hole with a few buds slamming down a few, but you forgot your piece is with you, you get stopped for, oh, let's say speeding. the officer notices you've had a few, and ask for your identification, you present it, he 29's you and sees you have a CCL asks if you have your weapon with you, and you say yes. now, the next 2 minutes are critical to your freedom. if your a decent law abiding citizen and your not being an a-hole, chances are your going to get a break, but, if you a dick your next stop won't be the twilight zone, you'll have the jailhouse blues.

moral of story: don't be an a-hole.
--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

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And if you only want to jump legal sites, then you'll never be more than an ASE jumper (well, that's only as far as I got, too, so... er... but none of my jumps were legal), and most likely just a S jumper.



There are more than a few legal Bs out there - probably more so than legal As, actually.

Peace,

D-d0g
+~+~+~+~
But this, surely, was the glory that no spirits, canine or human, had ever clearly seen, the light that never was on land or sea, and yet is glimpsed by the quickened mind everywhere.

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There are more than a few legal Bs out there - probably more so than legal As, actually.


I thought about that today. I couldn't really think of any legal As. Not taking into consideration the legality of the few jumps I've made, I totally forgot, the A I have in was illegal. Whatever. When it comes down to it, illegality of BASE is fucking dumb, especially in the NPS (don't get me started... you can't BASE jump, but you can rock climb, camp in dangerous conditions, etc... WTF?).

I do realize there are legal Bs, but take into consideration the amount and type of experience one would gain from jumping only legal sites from the start, and compare it to what's out there. Some of the technically legal Bs would probably not be made available to this person.

Anywho, good call. You're right. More legal Bs than As.
"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

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I do realize there are legal Bs, but take into consideration the amount and type of experience one would gain from jumping only legal sites from the start, and compare it to what's out there. Some of the technically legal Bs would probably not be made available to this person.



This is likely true in the States - someone doing only legal jumps here would be relagated to Bridge Day, TF, Moab, and some legal BLM/Forest Service jumps. That experience might not be enough to prep for Bs, though probably someone doing alot of slider-down Moab jumping would cross over well to Bs.

However, in Europe there's lots of jumpers who do either all or nearly all legal jumping and have tons of experience and skills. There's just so much legal cliff jumping over there. . . it's difficult to imagine from afar. Folks doing alot of Lauterbrunnen jumping, for example, would be well-prepared for the big Bs in Malaysia.

Ditto South Africa. Some of those cats are doing nearly all legal jumping, and have very deep skill sets in many areas. Then again, they get legal Bs down there quite regularly!

Peace,

D-d0g
+~+~+~+~
But this, surely, was the glory that no spirits, canine or human, had ever clearly seen, the light that never was on land or sea, and yet is glimpsed by the quickened mind everywhere.

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would everybody agree that skydiving is just as, or more dangerous than BASE? i hear a lot of "aw, dude, this is really dangerous stuff here"



one could say that skydiving is at least TWICE as safe as BASE. there is no second chance in a BASE jump, and time is rather short when compared to a skydive.

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are you implying that you're a completely law abiding citizen?



yes, i am making that implication.



dude you SOOOOOO need to go read the actual laws sometime..if its on the books its a law, even if no longer enforced and most break one inane law or another every day without realizing it. so next time you sneeze in public and dont say excuse me for example just remember your now a criminal...btw way still broke the law in your example the cop just decided not to treat you like a criminal that day.

edit: not to be an ass (as might be assumed since we've disagreed on this subject before) I certainly respect your intention to be a "completely law abiding citizen", and its not my bag, but some of the things that have become laws ludicrous.

i would say its better to attempt to be a concienceous (sp & i'm lazy today) citizen and respect the intent of the law not the actual "written rules"

BASE is another example of exercising individual freedoms in a manner that (ideally) endagers no one else.
____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

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BASE is another example of exercising individual freedoms in a manner that (ideally) endagers no one else.



As many jumpers like to say, we are "stealing altitude".

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

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Borrowing...we're only borrowing it.



I stand corrected. :$ This is from John Starr....

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Did we coin a phrase?

At the risk of sounding a rather trivial horn, I've included the following article on this site. In doing so I merely hope to preserve a record, and perhaps satisfy a curiosity.


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About a year after the film embarked on a nation-wide (and international) film festival circuit, I was amused to read an article about a Florida BASE jumper who, while being arrested for parachuting from a high rise, turned to a reporter on the scene and shouted, "We love stealing altitude!" Prior to that, the only expression I'd heard BASE jumpers use in that manner was "we're just borrowing a little altitude".

Ever since then, I've had a sneaking suspicion about the apparent metamorphosis of our film's title into what is now apparently a stock phrase used to describe outlaw BASE jumping*. Indeed, it does seem likely that its use amongst BASE jumpers is largely the result of our film's initial popularity with that crowd.

Even before the film saw widespread festival release, Fixed Object Journal (a BASE oriented magazine) editor Nick Di Giovanni had published two stories about the making of the film -- including mention of the film's title. Given the magazine's fairly wide circulation at the time (almost exclusively to active BASE jumpers), I suspect that's probably what got the phrase kick-started.

What Nick and everybody else didn't know at the time was the rather ironic story behind the film's title.

Struggling for the ideal film title, Roger and I found little we actually liked. At the time, local BASE jumpers referred to the act of sneaking onto a skyscraper for a jump as "borrowing altitude". We considered that expression, but decided it was too tame. So we tried "stealing altitude" and immediately loved it.

Ironically, our film's main character absolutely hated it. He felt it was misleading.

"I'm not stealing anything!" he said, before invoking the famous hiker's idiom "take only pictures, leave only footprints" that BASE jumpers were fond of. He was proud of his otherwise low-impact sport (no pun intended), and fiercely opposed our choice of a title.

Considering the significant sacrifices this man was making for our film, I felt we owed him a debt of gratitude. Soon, I was arguing his case to Roger. But Roger wisely refused to budge, and when I could think of no better title I gladly gave in.

So did our film coin the phrase? Possibly. So far I've not been able to find any pre-movie use of the expression in newspaper and magazine articles. I suppose the real question is this: "who cares?"

- John Starr

* Most recently, a front-page story in the Los Angeles Times said BASE jumpers referred to the act of making illegal BASE jumps as "stealing altitude".



- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

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In Reply To
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...we are "stealing altitude".

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Borrowing...we're only borrowing it.



Hell no Tom... im felling like Robin Hood,the objects have alot of it,i steal it to give it to the poor once,however im still poor so i havnt gone further;)

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

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A guy I exchanged emails with not too long ago told me he'd made 120 BASE jumps in the last 2 years, with only about 3 being from illegal objects, so if you've got the money and you're willing to travel, it can be done legally... You may not get the whole word, but you can certainly get cliffs and spans...
If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

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hi. before i say anything more....im one of those yahoo skydivers you have such dripping contempt for so you might just want to ignore me. but i would like to ask something....correct me if im wrong but werent all base jumpers once skydivers? wouldnt anyone WITHOUT rock solid freefall/exit/canopy skills going off and base jumping be regarded as a total idiot, a fatality waiting to happen, assuming he survives first attempt? so whats with the contempt? so there are some idiots out there. by the standards you seem to expect people to already know and respect wouldnt the first base jumpers be regarded as fools as well? jumping improvised/modified gear with no base-specific training? taking their reserves off a neighborhood antenna? 99% of the skydivers ive met so far where BASE was discussed were mostly going off about how much more they need to learn before trying BASE. personally someday (at least a couple years from now i think) i myself WILL BASE jump...but not until ive spent months learning from the local base freaks, and have decent BASE gear AND not until i feel my freefall/exit/canopy skills are up to par, AND not until other skydive/BASE jumpers agree with my self-evaluation. a few BASE jumpers ive skydived with have told me when i'm ready, after racking up a few hundred, if i want, ill be taken and schooled and shown how to do it right, and where. by the time i get there i will already have sucked up gigabytes of info on what i'm getting into. ive already started. i'm patient. ive already spent weeks reading everything here, at blinc, elsewhere. asking questions. im not bothering to try to find out where to BASE yet...when i'm ready, the information will become available. the question is, will i want to be around other base jumpers if theyre all that contemptuous of anything that isnt themselves or part of their clique?

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werent all base jumpers once skydivers?



Short answer: No. Quite a few BASE jumpers have skipped the skydiving step and came out just fine. Others have not.

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wouldnt anyone WITHOUT rock solid freefall/exit/canopy skills going off and base jumping be regarded as a total idiot, a fatality waiting to happen, assuming he survives first attempt?



In all honesty, it depends on the person. For most people, yes. Every now and again though, you find someone who was born to BASE jump. They are Uber coordinated and naturally have the mechanics nailed. With the right mentoring, these people can be moulded into safe, talented BASE jumpers, without skydiving.
On the other hand, there are MANY skydivers (and BASE jumpers, for that matter) who Aren't Uber coordinated, and Aren't natural BASE jumpers, and ARE bone-breakingly bad jumpers.

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so whats with the contempt?



BASE is gaining in popularity and exposure more and more every day. Until a few years ago there were barely over 400 BASE numbers given out. I wouldn't be surprised to see them break 1000 this year. With this kind of rapid growth, the idiots you speak of risk more than just their own life and limbs, they potentially compromise the future of BASE for EVERYBODY when their stupidity calls for outside intervention--ie: legal, medical, civil, or otherwise.

So you could understand that BASE jumpers almost HAVE to be cautious about WHO gets into the sport--and try to TEACH the idiots who refuse to bowl how to do it the right way. I'm glad to see you are waiting until you feel comfortable before taking up BASE jumping--I wish more people did that.

...and to answer your question:
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will i want to be around other base jumpers...or part of their clique?



Negative. BASE jumpers are the biggest group of egomanical, self-centered testosterone-pumped bastards the planet has ever seen. I strongly suggest not associating with ANY of these homos (especially the Australians). If you do decide you want to jump, and nobody in the BASE world (or any other world) wants to jump with you, there is a place for you...It's known as the "Mince Division." They'll take you in as one of their own...and braid your hair as you sit around the fireplace and sip wine coolers.
;)

(actually, they're right cool blokes--but they wouldn't give me a number:()

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Rduch,

This is a answer for the third post in this thread …

BASE jumping is not about rules … and not about breaking existing rules either … most of us just like to jump, and when you jump some (please forgive me for my bad English, I’m a Swede and English are not my mother language) “best practice” are in order, one of them are not to talk about sites in public. Whit public I mean, talk with skydivers and telling them about sites. I do believe that if you really like to BASE jump … so fine, get you self a mentor and learn from him/her. Usually it takes some work to get a base jumper to invest all the time and the effort to help you getting in to the world of base jumping … but when you are in you get to met great people. And sometimes even grand people.

We play a game, the stakes in this game are our lives … it’s like rolling the dice, and as you and I know the house always wins … and sometimes when one of your brothers pay the ultimate price you think of what you can have done to make base jumping a safer place … one thing among others are not to mention sites …

I do have the privilege of meeting both Tom and Dd0g (who post allot in this forum) and I have allot of respect for both of them, I think of them like their was my brothers. Please take their advice … please …

I can’t tell you what to do … but I can ask you to please reconsider

PerFlare

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I'll certainly agree that the poineers of BASE were fools. . . or worse. It took a special kind of madness to do what they did - with the gear they had available to them at the time. I ave upmost respect for those early BASE folks who truly pioneered our sport and helped to set the foundation for what it is today. Honestly, however, calling them "foolish" is probably not inacurate. . . nor insulting, really.

It sounds like your approach to BASE is spot-on. Sadly, there's lots of folks out there who don't share your balanced approach to the sport - it is those ego-driven types that I derisively referred to as "skydivers," which of course is both unfair and mean on my part. Hey, I never claimed to be either nice or fair :S

As MH says, the skillsets and inherent proclivities that make a safe and "solid" BASE jumper aren't 100% correlated with skydiving skills. Surviving in BASE today, even with the relatively good gear we have nowadays, takes some instincts that just aren't really necessary at the DZ. Heck, there's more than a few folks out there doing BASE jumps that lack the insincts, as well.

Oh, and do watch out for the Aussies. . . everyone knows they can't be trusted. I hear that several of them decided it'd be cool to go gay, but it turns out they couldn't find a single gay guy willing to date them! Not to name names Feral:D

And the Swedes? Well, they are in a class by themselves - what more can be said?

Peace,

D-d0g

+~+~+~+~
But this, surely, was the glory that no spirits, canine or human, had ever clearly seen, the light that never was on land or sea, and yet is glimpsed by the quickened mind everywhere.

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I'm an avid skydiver as well and I agree almost entirely with huck and the others on this one. I took up BASE pretty far along in my Skydiving career. Does BASE come natural to me? Sortof. Because of being accustomed to high stress situations, and time in the sport, certain aspects came fairly easy. Here they are. Risk assesment and the ability to walk away.

Now lets take leaving an object stable. All the freefall time, did me no good at all on low objects. Talk about humbling. It completely screwed up my pull position also. Your not supposed to go to a knee stand on a 2 second delay =8^) Standing up on the edge of whatever, and losing the ability to relax... Wow! What a trip.

After flailing dangerously for the second time in a couple weeks, I drove 13 hours up to a legal span in the Potato state to sort it out. I'm a fairly good example of a a NOT so coordinate BASE jumper. Luckily it's beginning to come together. Had I not been so gung ho about body armor and good boots, my legs would be full of titanium.

The popularity aspect of BASE shows it self time and again. I happen to be a Skydiving instructor but would have NO business teaching BASE. It has been fairly common for the blind to lead the blind. For the most part, except for some of the rigging aspect, I would be a blind leader. That's not an easy thing to admit but have to do it all the time. Instead I go to certain people with a few hundred skydives and god knows how many BASE jumps for answers. They are just better at it.

Heres a good example of blind leadership. 2 guys were shown how to leave a bridge toss a pilot chute and hope for the best. So off they go to a span, leap off the rail and it works out. These 2 people become partners and begin the search for new sites to which they have no business. They will find them sooner or later.....hopefully later.

So it comes down to having to keep the locations secret. That includes secret from me, and by me.

There are cliques every where in life. Some are just bigger or tighter than others. Sometimes one just has to deal with it.

Some of the amazing group of people I get the privilege to skydive with, sure come up with some amazing theories about base. ;) I'll stick to Skydiving with them. :P

Oh, ... I don't know the aussies.

I hope this BASE newbie made some sense.

Cheers

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

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my legs would be full of titanium.

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Well at least some of us can say our leg is more value than our A##:ph34r:B|:D

Well were did i get that body armor:ph34r:;)...hmmm gonna get some before ill jump next..say 3month+:(


Stay safe
Stefan Faber

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