freeflyz 0 #1 December 4, 2002 Does anyone have one of these rigs or jumps one??Would really like feed back on this one! It going to be my first base rig! Thanks! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #2 December 4, 2002 i'm going that route as well...highly recommended by the BASE crowd at Eloy and you can go in and talk to them anytime and watch them being made..____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyz 0 #3 December 4, 2002 Yeah i talked to somebody down there.Just wanted to know the in and outs of the rig! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #4 December 4, 2002 cant help you much now (i'm in WA) but when i get back i'll query Kevin and a few others opinions..____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
konradptr 0 #5 December 5, 2002 I was having some work done on my rig last time I was in Eloy, and I was talking to those guys as they were building up some risers or something. Super cool guys, they will talk to you as long as you want, answer all your questions, etc... Just got good vibes from them, but don't know anything about the gear in use... ------------------------------------------ Getting banned isn't that bad...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #6 December 5, 2002 I have less than five jumps on Bombproof rigs. I have seen several, chatted with Bombproof a bit at Bridge Day, talked to some experienced AZ BASE jumpers who know them, and had a fairly good look at a friend's rig. All of these rigs were NEO's. I'm not sure if Bombproof makes any other rig, but that's what these comments pertain to.Bombproof, like other manufacturers, continuously improves their rigs. These comments were made based on the rigs I have seen. Current rigs may have been improved in these or other areas.If anyone knows different on any of these instances, please post a follow up. If you feel a need to flame me, please PM or email me.Here are my thoughts:The rig design seemed ok. Not stellar, but workable.I had minor concerns about the riser covers (seemed too clunky, and perhaps snag prone while wiggling onto an exit).My major concern was the pin cover flap. The flap seemed undersized, and I was concerned that it might not provide adequate protection for the pins in a terminal aerobatic or wingsuit flight. Bombproof's testing program for this (they held the rig up in the back of a truck, and drove as fast as they could through the desert) seemed inadequate to me.The quality of workmanship seemed somewhat variable.Some of the rigs I saw looked great, but some of them seemed to be a bit substandard in construction and assembly. I saw a few that had bits of thread sticking out of the corner closures. Some of the stitching in bits of the harness seemed odd, but this was likely a stylistic difference. In any case, this stitching was not on a structural component of the harness, so it was not a safety issue.I also saw a couple (two of the six I've examined so far) of the older Bombproof pilot chutes that looked a little questionable to me. The attachment point on the center line had been hot knifed roughly, and not cleaned up. This left a hard, sharp corner inside the PC. I worried that this corner might pierce or catch the mesh or ZP fabric, inducing a PC hesitation.I've also heard a few rumors about Bombproof's business practices and customer service that worried me.I know that they have had dealers for BASE gear who had under 150 jumps. It seems questionable to make relatively inexperienced jumpers your dealers and spokesmen. It should be noted that these jumpers were the most experienced active jumpers in their areas, so, as a marketing decision, the only alternative was to simply not have dealers in that geographic market.I've spoken with some people who had concerns about a First Jump Course being held at a legal, slider down cliff in Arizona. This object is definitely not suitable for a first BASE jump. Bombproof has discontinued this practice.A Bombproof customer received a FOX demo canopy, but believed the canopy was a Flik. I am uncertain if this error was made by BR or Bombproof (both companies deny having told the jumper the canopy in question was a Flik).Bombproof pushes NEO's (pin rigs) for beginner jumpers. I do not feel that pin rigs are an appropriate choice for beginners, especially in the environment (generally slider down cliffs in the 300-600 foot range) geographically close to Bombproof. The use of pin rigs for beginners is open to much debate among experienced BASE jumpers.There have definitely been jumpers who felt that Bombproof was trying to capitalize on their location (on a major dropzone) to make a few bucks off skydivers who might not know better.Edit: I have revised this posting after a recent conversation with Kevin at Bombproof.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyz 0 #7 December 5, 2002 That is the kind of info i was looking for.The guy i'm learning from has over 700 base jumps,so i'm not going gun ho on my base jumping Thanks! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #9 February 22, 2003 I am bumping this back up. I've done a fair bit of editing on my original posting, after a long conversation with Kevin at Bombproof.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skinflicka 0 #10 February 22, 2003 I just completed testing this rig. It's a myth. The handgrenade which I packed into the rig (slider up) completely obliterated both rig and canopy and, incidentally but not inconsequentially, my sandwiches which I had forgotten to remove from the test site. I think that this demonstrates beyond doubt that the rig does not, in fact, live up to it's name. I'm off to Subway. I'm peckish. PS Tom, kinda harsh to include other peoples opinions, which are purely conjecture, about a guy's business ethics in a review. It looks like the technical details alone should give people pause. Just my .02. Skin $kin. Prizes to anyone who gets to read my posts before Mr Aiello's son, Tom deletes them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
evilivan 0 #11 February 23, 2003 QuoteI just completed testing this rig. It's a myth. The handgrenade which I packed into the rig (slider up) completely obliterated both rig and canopy and, incidentally but not inconsequentially, my sandwiches which I had forgotten to remove from the test site. I think that this demonstrates beyond doubt that the rig does not, in fact, live up to it's name.Quote Your experiment is commendable Mr Skin, but I believe it has missed the point. We have been informed by his most regal highness, our very own PM T. Blair, that the very presence of this rig is positive evidence of WMD and reason therefore to declare war on Iraq..."If you can keep your head when all around you have lost theirs, then you probably haven't understood the seriousness of the situation." David Brent Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BombProof 0 #12 February 26, 2003 I think it should be noted that Tom holds no rigging certification of any kind and to my knowledge has no experience designing rigs. Perhaps these points sholud be considered when reading his postings regarding construction and design of rigs. This is not to say that Tom is not entitled to his opinions, it's just food for thought.... Kevin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #13 February 26, 2003 I think it should be noted that Tom is an extremely knowledgeable BASE jumper that the more I hear about him, the more I respect him and his opinions. I heard a story where he was jumping a canopy who's performance was noticeably poor (to the point where another highly experienced BASE jumper wouldn't have jumped it). When asked why he continued to jump it, he replied he wanted 100 jumps on it so that his review of the canopy would hold merit. I have gotten nothing but solid information from Tom. As for Bombproof, on Vector II's, the RSL lanyard goes through the guide ring, and the reserve ripcord does not, not vice-versus. Imagine my surprise when a friend of mine brought me his rig……………… A little more food for thought. Hook Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rfarris 1 #14 February 26, 2003 Quote I think it should be noted that Tom holds no rigging certification of any kind and to my knowledge has no experience designing rigs. Perhaps these points sholud be considered when reading his postings regarding construction and design of rigs. This is not to say that Tom is not entitled to his opinions, it's just food for thought.... Kevin Well I'll be damned. How dare you Tom for offering your opinions to your BASE brothers about different gear without so much as holding a rigger's certification.With all due respect to you Kevin, we (or I) don't really give a shit if Tom holds any of these prestigious titles. The fact of the matter is, the dude (Tom) is jumping is ass off with all types of different manufacturors gear and sharing his opinions on the comfort, reliability, and overall user friendliness of the gear. I've never met you, and Tom wouldn't know me from Adam (the Biblical dude, not the CR dude) So this is an unbiased opinion from a nobody BASE jumper who makes their gear decisions based on other jumper's opinions about certain gear. Keep the gear reviews coming Tom. Rod Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hookitt 0 #15 February 26, 2003 Ok... Both Kevin and Tom Know me. I would like to remain silent and just be the smartass on different threads as I usually am, but I feel it's not prudent to do so. Tom is a knowledgable BASE jumper who has taken much time trying many rigs and parachutes. A person does not need to be a designer of rigs to understand the function and mechanics of a single parachute system. He does understand the mechanics involved from the point a Pilot chute is released in to the air stream to the point a parachute is pressurized. I've had several conversations with Tom to know this is true. Reviews happen. Magazines review cars all the time. It all the same, just different players and different products. Place many rigs in front of you and compare them. What are the mechanics involved to open each container? What is the general appearance? How are the components built? What do the stitch patterns look like? What Happens if you pull on the bridle at a different angles? Is any of this different when cinched tightly to the body... and so on and so on... Kevin, you are well aware that I understand rigs and their function. That being said, I've seen quality work from you. You are very talented. Tom is not a rigger or designer. Nor do I think he knows how to sew. However I view his opinions with high regards, as I view others opinions with high regards. Being a person who can build my own container should I choose to do so, I can use my own judgement and clue into the reality that trying to disuade others from believing Toms views is a bad Idea. Besides, he's the only one willing to do them, and he does a thourough job of it. Kevin has shown me some very nice containers. I believe Kevin, as a manufacturer of parachuting equipment, will continue to expand upon his designs as all other Manufacturers have done. That too was mentioned in the review. People have their opinions. I have mine you all have yours. So take mine with a grain of salt cuz at the end of the day, does it really matter? Kevin, keep up the good work Tom Thanks for caring enough to share your views with others. - -My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Dd0g 0 #16 February 26, 2003 It should be noted that Tom is a fair bit "nicer" (in the sense of being open-minded, non-emotional, and balanced) in all of his reviews than some other folks - this writer included - have been known to be. Given that Tom has the experience jumping multiple rigs to back up his opinions (always offered as such), it seems fair to remember that if all of one's reviews were to be exclusively positive on all levels, they wouldn't be much use would they? Sort of like Wall Street analysts in the late '90s. . . never a "sell" recommendation. I don't know squat about Boobproof's rigs, so I can't even offer an informed opinion. However, my completely uninformed opinion is that we shouldn't be BASE jumping with bombs. Ever. Peace, D-d0g+~+~+~+~ But this, surely, was the glory that no spirits, canine or human, had ever clearly seen, the light that never was on land or sea, and yet is glimpsed by the quickened mind everywhere. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites base283 0 #17 March 1, 2003 " you can go in and talk to them anytime " This would be a play on words? Greetings to The Big Dude Kev! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Skinflicka 0 #18 March 1, 2003 In Tom's defense (after a minor berate)... Perhaps it should be noted that if you want to know how good a car is you ask the race driver and not the hairy assed monkey who changes the tyres or the geek in the white lab coat who calculated the flows and stresses. It's ultimatley the consumer who will decide whether you have a quality product or not...provided he doesn't die while using it. These are not microwave ovens we're wearing on our backs. Disclaimer: I haven't seen a Bombproof rig and can offer no opinion on it's fit, form or function either way. Skin.$kin. Prizes to anyone who gets to read my posts before Mr Aiello's son, Tom deletes them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 0 Go To Topic Listing
BombProof 0 #12 February 26, 2003 I think it should be noted that Tom holds no rigging certification of any kind and to my knowledge has no experience designing rigs. Perhaps these points sholud be considered when reading his postings regarding construction and design of rigs. This is not to say that Tom is not entitled to his opinions, it's just food for thought.... Kevin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #13 February 26, 2003 I think it should be noted that Tom is an extremely knowledgeable BASE jumper that the more I hear about him, the more I respect him and his opinions. I heard a story where he was jumping a canopy who's performance was noticeably poor (to the point where another highly experienced BASE jumper wouldn't have jumped it). When asked why he continued to jump it, he replied he wanted 100 jumps on it so that his review of the canopy would hold merit. I have gotten nothing but solid information from Tom. As for Bombproof, on Vector II's, the RSL lanyard goes through the guide ring, and the reserve ripcord does not, not vice-versus. Imagine my surprise when a friend of mine brought me his rig……………… A little more food for thought. Hook Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rfarris 1 #14 February 26, 2003 Quote I think it should be noted that Tom holds no rigging certification of any kind and to my knowledge has no experience designing rigs. Perhaps these points sholud be considered when reading his postings regarding construction and design of rigs. This is not to say that Tom is not entitled to his opinions, it's just food for thought.... Kevin Well I'll be damned. How dare you Tom for offering your opinions to your BASE brothers about different gear without so much as holding a rigger's certification.With all due respect to you Kevin, we (or I) don't really give a shit if Tom holds any of these prestigious titles. The fact of the matter is, the dude (Tom) is jumping is ass off with all types of different manufacturors gear and sharing his opinions on the comfort, reliability, and overall user friendliness of the gear. I've never met you, and Tom wouldn't know me from Adam (the Biblical dude, not the CR dude) So this is an unbiased opinion from a nobody BASE jumper who makes their gear decisions based on other jumper's opinions about certain gear. Keep the gear reviews coming Tom. Rod Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #15 February 26, 2003 Ok... Both Kevin and Tom Know me. I would like to remain silent and just be the smartass on different threads as I usually am, but I feel it's not prudent to do so. Tom is a knowledgable BASE jumper who has taken much time trying many rigs and parachutes. A person does not need to be a designer of rigs to understand the function and mechanics of a single parachute system. He does understand the mechanics involved from the point a Pilot chute is released in to the air stream to the point a parachute is pressurized. I've had several conversations with Tom to know this is true. Reviews happen. Magazines review cars all the time. It all the same, just different players and different products. Place many rigs in front of you and compare them. What are the mechanics involved to open each container? What is the general appearance? How are the components built? What do the stitch patterns look like? What Happens if you pull on the bridle at a different angles? Is any of this different when cinched tightly to the body... and so on and so on... Kevin, you are well aware that I understand rigs and their function. That being said, I've seen quality work from you. You are very talented. Tom is not a rigger or designer. Nor do I think he knows how to sew. However I view his opinions with high regards, as I view others opinions with high regards. Being a person who can build my own container should I choose to do so, I can use my own judgement and clue into the reality that trying to disuade others from believing Toms views is a bad Idea. Besides, he's the only one willing to do them, and he does a thourough job of it. Kevin has shown me some very nice containers. I believe Kevin, as a manufacturer of parachuting equipment, will continue to expand upon his designs as all other Manufacturers have done. That too was mentioned in the review. People have their opinions. I have mine you all have yours. So take mine with a grain of salt cuz at the end of the day, does it really matter? Kevin, keep up the good work Tom Thanks for caring enough to share your views with others. - -My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dd0g 0 #16 February 26, 2003 It should be noted that Tom is a fair bit "nicer" (in the sense of being open-minded, non-emotional, and balanced) in all of his reviews than some other folks - this writer included - have been known to be. Given that Tom has the experience jumping multiple rigs to back up his opinions (always offered as such), it seems fair to remember that if all of one's reviews were to be exclusively positive on all levels, they wouldn't be much use would they? Sort of like Wall Street analysts in the late '90s. . . never a "sell" recommendation. I don't know squat about Boobproof's rigs, so I can't even offer an informed opinion. However, my completely uninformed opinion is that we shouldn't be BASE jumping with bombs. Ever. Peace, D-d0g+~+~+~+~ But this, surely, was the glory that no spirits, canine or human, had ever clearly seen, the light that never was on land or sea, and yet is glimpsed by the quickened mind everywhere. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base283 0 #17 March 1, 2003 " you can go in and talk to them anytime " This would be a play on words? Greetings to The Big Dude Kev! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skinflicka 0 #18 March 1, 2003 In Tom's defense (after a minor berate)... Perhaps it should be noted that if you want to know how good a car is you ask the race driver and not the hairy assed monkey who changes the tyres or the geek in the white lab coat who calculated the flows and stresses. It's ultimatley the consumer who will decide whether you have a quality product or not...provided he doesn't die while using it. These are not microwave ovens we're wearing on our backs. Disclaimer: I haven't seen a Bombproof rig and can offer no opinion on it's fit, form or function either way. Skin.$kin. Prizes to anyone who gets to read my posts before Mr Aiello's son, Tom deletes them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
