PD Reserve's for Base Canopies?

[Rdutch 0]

Anyone ever use a PD reserve as a base canopy?
I have a friend that has a Sorcerer rig with 2 Modified Pd reserves as base canopies. They have modified brake settings and a tail pocket. I dont know what else has been done but he has a few jumps on them as base canopies and says they work good. Sounds like they would be good for it because they are designed to open on heading and Fast. Let me know if you have used one before and what you thought about it. OR if you have heard anything.

Ray
Small and fast what every girl dreams of!

[SkyMissy 0]

It's been done. Quite a bit. But the point is, with modern gear made for BASE, why?

[TomAiello 26]

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Anyone ever use a PD reserve as a base canopy?

I made my first jumps on a PD235 7 cell main. According to the guys who taught me, the main and reserve were manufactured the same at that point. I don't know if that's the case, and since I moved on to real BASE gear around 20 jumps, I never bothered to find out.

Anyway, a few thoughts on that canopy, many of which ought to apply to yours.

1) It had two smallish crossports (BASE canopies have three--and they are bigger, or extended). This gave it less consistent openings than a BASE canopy should have. Pressurization was slow, and often acompanied by weird pressure waves.

2) Time to secondary (full) pressurization was definitely far greater than on a standard BASE canopy.

3) Riser responsiveness early in the inflation sequence was non-existent. The canopy had to get full inflation and begin moving forward before I could get it to turn on a riser. This led to at least one very scary moment, when I nearly (5 or 6 feet) clipped a wall in a national park on my 15th jump.

4) It had a weak flare, probably because the canopy was quite old. That probably won't apply to whatever canopy you are considering.

5) The stabilizers were a bit big, and the tail symmetry was odd, making it far harder to pack than a BASE canopy.

6) The topskin tabs were set up for standard skydiving flat packs (not pro-stacks), making packing a bit harder, especially at first (not sure how they are on the reserves, though).

7) The bridle attachment point was not reinforced as much as a BASE canopy's (with a reserve I guess you'd be retrofitting a bridle attachment--I'm not sure how easy that is, since the bridle attachment should be built into the canopy reinforcement).

8) Canopy coloring was not as packing friendly as a BASE canopy (aren't most reserves all one color? I'd hate to mistake the center cell while packing).

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I have a friend that has a Sorcerer rig with 2 Modified Pd reserves as base canopies. They have modified brake settings and a tail pocket. I dont know what else has been done but he has a few jumps on them as base canopies and says they work good.

Do you know what kinds of jumps he is doing on them? It sounds like a good setup for terminal jumps with high deployments. I personally wouldn't jump a skydiving reserve on a slider down object. But, it would probably take imminent threat of arrest or injury to get me to take one off any object at all.

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Sounds like they would be good for it because they are designed to open on heading and Fast.

They may open with better heading and faster than a skydiving canopy, but I doubt they are going to compare with any BASE canopy in either of these areas.

A skydiving reserve is designed with different parameters than a BASE canopy (for example, no one tries to reduce pack volume on BASE canopies, and no skydiving reserve is designed for slider down openings).

I'd recommend getting real BASE gear.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[CrazyThomas 0]

I agree with Tom on his points about the "other" canopies that will work. I started on an interceptor 225, which was a CRW canopy. Good openings, harder landings. First thing I did was to get myself a BASE specific canopy. And it made a lot of difference not only in openings, but in landings.
I wasn't experienced enough to notice differences in riser response or inflation. I was just happy having an open canopy overhead.
I would like to add one thing. VENTS! if you are considering doing low BASE jumps, or even just slider off/down BASE jumps, I think vents on the bottom skin help considerably. I waited til I had my vented canopy before playing on the low stuff. And now I've gone low, so I would rather take on bigger objects.
Low is fun, and opens up supposed "Un-jumpable" objects, but low is much quicker with everything.
Quicker deployments and inflation needed, and quicker landings coming at me. Almost so quick sometimes I miss parts of it, except the adrenaline keeps reminding me of what went on.
Low is not for everyone. High is not for everyone. The choice of canopies you jump mainly depends on you. What are you comfortable with? What would you risk your life with?
I have heard of people taking skydiving rigs off my favorite 1200 foot antenna, and while that may work, I don't want to try. It must work, because they are still alive.
but, to each his own. Make your choice based on what you think. and, have fun!
Peace,
Thomas

[base311 0]

Hey there,

I can echo what Tom has said about the PD 7-cell reserves. I have about 50 jumps on two different PD 253s. Overall I'd say that the canopies are suitable for BASE (if you're aware of their limitations), and, as others have mentioned, they've been used a lot in the past for BASE purposes. HOWEVER, times have changed and there's really not much need in using skydiving canopies for BASE when there are canopies that have been designed from the links up to be used in the BASE environ. Simply put, you can pick up good used base-specific gear for relatively cheap these days if you keep your eyes open.

As for the PDs, the late great Earl Redfern swore by them: not that THAT is terribly comforting! I don't think I ever saw him jump much else, unless it was someone offering to let him use their gear. I now have his rig in my possession and use it as my secondary rig (sans his risers - which I discovered after jumping it once to be BLACK FRICKIN' DEATH, MAN!!!). I don't jump it very often (usually just for old time's sake when the mood strikes), deferring instead to my warlock/mojo260 combo. On a guess, the openings on MY PD253 jumps have been about 90% consistent: good on-heading performance and decent pressurization (but on-heading perf. is so variable - IMHO due mostly to packing and jumper body position/technique). But every now and then I'll look up to find the canopy accordioning and nearly unresponsive and losing alti fast! I mean where else can you get three openings on one jump (except for maybe with a fury 220 without properly set DBS)? It is for this accordion problem that I don't use it on low stuff nor on stuff where object strike is a concern. YMMV

My recommendation is to get something built for BASE. Most of my jumps have been on modified skydiving canopies and I have only recently (within the past 40-50 jumps) been using BASE-specific canopies. My advice: get something BASE specific - it really is THAT MUCH BETTER.

Gardner

[rfarris 2]

I've asked this questions many times to different experienced BASE jumpers, like Tom A., regarding using skydive canopies such as a Super Raven for BASE jumping. And all that these guys can do,
is offer words of warnings to us about the dangers of continuing to use such canopies. But still we refuse to believe that a BASE specific canopy really is much safer, partly because we read about non BASE canopies being used in various archives on forum boards, and another reason because we just forked out alot of money for our new, non BASE canopy and had it converted.
Well this morning, well before sunrise, I saw their reasoning. Not that I had an accident, or felt like I was about to have one, but because after I exited the platform and got control of my buffeting, mushy feeling, Raven and set it down crosswind, my jump partner exited with his BASE specific canopy, and after the initial "WHACK" sound of a slider off jump, he was instantly rock solid and stable and was able to immediately turn it around into the wind for landing. I was impressed.
Conclusion: that low freestander will have to wait until I get a real BASE canopy. Will I retire the Raven? Nah.. I still think it will do just fine on that 1400' "A".

Rod

[mickknutson 0]

http://www.blincmagazine.com/cms/parachute.shtml

http://www.blincmagazine.com/reviews/Gear/Parachutes/

Mick Knutson
* BLiNC Magazine "Everything you ever wanted to know about Parachuting, but didn't know whom to ask."

[JohnLeBlanc 0]

Someone recently passed this onto me for a reply, if anybody is still interested.
The PD reserves for base is a thing of the past, but it helped the base jumping gear get where it is today.
Initially, the PD seven cell main was being used, then some folks went to the reserve due to the heavier reinforcing. People often had their rigger install a pilotchute attachment, often of questionable structural design.

The slow rear riser response was one reason for the creation of the Dragon, which was a canopy we used to build for Vertigo. It was PD seven cell trimmed differently, like a Lightning. Over the years, base jumpers kept finding lower objects acceptable, and the slow cell inflation (slider down) of the PD seven cell based canopies were not adequate for this environment. Therefore production of the Dragon was stopped.

Since then, other designs more specific to base have been developed by various companies that have quicker cell inflation with the slider down. If you are only doing very high objects, it may make little difference. However, if you are looking to purchase gear for base, don't bother with converted skydiving gear. It makes more sense to get something base specific, and something that is the best blend of being up to date, but also well proven in the field.

John LeBlanc

[mickknutson 0]

I would choose a Raven over a PD any day. Seen to many strange openings by several old timers using PD's.

But the bottom line is, if you wanna BASE, get BASE Gear!

You don't use a Triathlon for a pnd swooping competition. Right tool for the right job.

Mick Knutson
* BLiNC Magazine "Everything you ever wanted to know about Parachuting, but didn't know whom to ask."

[Faber 0]

Why,use a skydive canopi,when there are BASE canopies?
The only ride ill take in my Raven will be reserve rides,how ever it ain big enouf to BASE anyway.

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[mickknutson 0]

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Why,use a skydive canopi,when there are BASE canopies?
The only ride ill take in my Raven will be reserve rides,how ever it ain big enouf to BASE anyway.

When I skydive, I use a Raven. I do this because the cost of the Raven is far less than using my BASE canopy for skydiving. But Whenever I need to get some base canopy time, I just remove the Raven and insert the Ace. Easy.

Mick Knutson
* BLiNC Magazine "Everything you ever wanted to know about Parachuting, but didn't know whom to ask."

[base704 0]

I recently experienced the horror of watching someone jump a PD canopy (PD253) on a PCA from a 220' B...Yikes!
The canopy opened, and he survived, but it looked like an accordion in use all the way to the ground.
It never fully pressurized, and therefore the man takin' the ride met the pavement with a resounding "OOF!"
Not something I would care to jump, nor even see anyone else do so again.
Like previously said: Use the right tool for the job...
-704

You can get a lot more done with a kind word and a gun than with a kind word alone.

[JohnLeBlanc 0]

Like I said in my original post, the PD's slow cell inflation slider down is not good for what is happening in base today. The PD reserve was designed to be a great skydiving reserve, not a base canopy. For base, get a canopy designed for base. Can I get any more clear than that?

[badenhop 0]

A Raven is a fine BASE canopy, for only about $800.

==================================

I've got all I need, Jesus and gravity. Dolly Parton

http://www.AveryBadenhop.com

[bps 0]

Hi John --

Thank you for taking the time to write your post. I love reading about the history and development of our sport, especially so in the arena of equipment design.

Ray --

I know it's been said a lot in this thread, but just to chime in my two cents, my advice is the same: Skydiving specific canopies are inferior to the many BASE-specific designs available today. And this is in terms of structural integrity, rigging, openings, responsiveness at inflation time, canopy flight and even landings.

The extra dollars spent on a BASE-specific canopy has double it's worth for the qualities that you'll find in a BASE-specific design.

C-ya,

Bryan