First experience

[3fLiEr 0]

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You aint conservative in my book taking off a crapy bit of skydiving kit on a BASE jump - even if it is a >800ft bridge.

Use specific gear - it is developed for the job. Dont cut corners in BASE......... Life is lethal!

Be Safe Be Low

That is not an offensive comment

Be safe but be particularly LOW...........

M

[narcimund 0]

I'm sad to see this interchange. It's so unnecessarily hurtful.

Weegegirl is unnerved by the nastiness of the experts. The experts are self-righteous because their comments contain worthwhile information.

It's so common to see this in skydiving. Experienced jumpers generously offer their hard-won knowledge but poison the advice with a condescending attitude. Even worse, they publically humiliate the recipient. Sometimes the nastiness is overt and sometimes subtle. Either way it distracts from the original generous intent, turns the recipient defensive, and puts everyones' nerves on edge.

In the end, the victim walks away from the experts and all future learning opportunities are lost. How sad.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[weegegirl 2]

Amen.

[Zennie 0]

Coming to Tom's defense here, I went back & re-read his posts and I honestly don't see anything in there that seems offensive. About the only thig I saw that could remotely be taken negatively is his inquiry into the BASE experience of the people at the DZ helping you out. And I think that's a legitimate question to ask.

Tom & I have exchanged PM's on the topic of getting into BASE and I've always found his comments to be extremely helpful. He's never taken on a condescending tone with me, even when I asked some probably stupid newbie-ish questions.

And if you do plan on taking up BASE, you probably should thicken your skin a little, because compared to what you've seen here, the people over at the BASE Board are ruthless.

That said, the people that I've met in the BASE community are some of the nicest, most helpful, down to earth people you'll come across. You think skydivers are a tight knit bunch? BASE jumpers are even more so.

I agree with other people that you really should get a dedicated BASE rig if you're going to seriously take up BASE. I'm only jumping a skydiving reserve (in a BASE container) right now because I have an 8 week wait to get my custom BASE gear.

As far as Bridge Day goes, it is a relatively safe jump as far as BASE jumps go. No obstacles (except for the rapellers and some trees in the landing area), pretty high, boats to pick you up if you land in the water. It's a good first exposure to the BASE experience. But the real benefit isn't the jump, it's meeting and talking to all the people. It's a learning experience as much as anything.

I'm no BASE God or anything, I have exactly the same experience as you... one jump from this year's Bridge Day. But I've talked to a lot of folks who I respect & trust (such as Tom) and this is sort of my take on it.

YMMV.

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[weegegirl 2]

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And if you do plan on taking up BASE, you probably should thicken your skin a little, because compared to what you've seen here, the people over at the BASE Board are ruthless.

You know what, that right there is the problem. I respect Tom and everybody else's opinions - they do have FAR more knowledge and experience than I do - there is no comparison. However, I have met plenty of nice people in the sport who aren't ruthless and don't feel the need to insult and discourage newbies. I like the skin I have. I'm really not all that sensitive - trust me - I'm the youngest of nine. I can take it and I sure do dish it out. But sometimes people need to think before they talk. I don't see the point in unnecessary rudeness.

I also want to take this time to thank all the people who sent me PMs in support of me sticking up for myself.

I really really want feedback and constructive criticism. But I won't sit here and be called stupid for going through the learning process.

On that note, why don't we bring this forum back to its original purpose. That's all I wanted to do was answer the damn forum. Now it's turned into a bad episode of Jerry Springer.

Blue skies.

[Zennie 0]

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I really really want feedback and constructive criticism. But I won't sit here and be called stupid for going through the learning process.

I just went back and re-read every single post on this thread. Nobody called you stupid or even insinuated it... particularly Tom. Now maybe some of them said some things that you didn't want to hear... like maybe you ought to jump BASE-specific gear, and have a few more jumps and inquire into the BASE experience of the people helping you... but that is a far cry from calling you stupid.

skypuppy made the only statements that I would consider controversial, but the sentiments behind them I think are legitimate. Bridge Day is an easy jump... that's why experienced BASE jumpers recommend it as a first jump. For many people it's their one and only BASE jump. In some ways I suppose it is the BASE equivalent of a tandem... for some it's a one-shot deal, and for others it's the beginning of their BASE training.

And to reiterate, I have the exact same experience as you, yet I'm not offended by anything anyone has written. I certainly don't think skypuppy was calling me a chimpanzee because my one and only BASE jump thus far was Bridge Day. In fact, I thought his follow-up about keeping them from climbing up the lines was pretty damn funny. And I don't think it was a joke at your expense. It was just tongue-in-cheek.

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[JDBoston 0]

This is starting to remind me very strongly of a wing loading debate.

I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who are precocious and naturally skilled and whatever, and that's absolutely fine, and maybe they'll never have a serious accident, but if you're an outlier on the safety curve and you know it, then you should expect a little backlash when you bring it up.

That isn't because people are assholes and want to make you feel bad or put you down, or protect their superiority, it's because they want to prevent something unpleasant from happening to you, and when people want their remarks noticed they spice them up a bit. I consider it a favor when people give a shit about my safety.

At 100 jumps, you have maybe 10 minutes of canopy control experience between 100' and the ground. 10 MINUTES. Probably a similar amount of experience with canopy openings. How many activities do you know of where death is the possible or even likely result of a relatively minor screwup, yet 10 minutes of experience is enough to make you feel safe upping the ante?

Regarding this specific thread, I personally didn't think the comments were too offensive, and I thought the reaction to them was unwarranted. That's my $0.02. Of course, everyone is free to disagree, and I'm sure some do.

Anyway, wishing blue skies and safe landings to everyone, regardless of the path they choose...

Joe

[narcimund 0]

Weegegirl,

One of the reasons I'm intrigued by base is that being a bit of an outlaw activity, it doesn't draw the Authority Protector types. Not as much at least.

The base people I've met in person so far have been excellent safety enthusiasts with great experience and detailed knowledge. They're also patient, caring instructors. Most importantly though, they're adults who recognize that I'm an adult who will make his own decisions.

One jumper in particular says something that I -REALLY- respect: "Every jump you make is wholly your own decision, but I would like to let you know what I think." Oh, the incredible rarity of finding someone who treats another human being as an equal! Not as if I had his knowledge and experience mind you, but as if I too were responsible for my own fate and nobody else's. Someone who's willing to help me but has no illusions that he controls me!

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[flyinryan 0]

This is a real saftey concern...NOT a personal attack.

I have one question...does your DZO or your S&TA BASE jump. If they do (and I don't mean once and a while or a few bridge day jumps...I mean really BASE jump on a regular basis), then yeah listen to them. If they do not...then don't listen to them regarding BASE. Check out the BASE fatality list of people who figured skydiving gear was good enough, or who figured they were good skydiver so therefore they were BASE experts.

Listen to AS MANY opinions you can get regarding BASE (from people who BASE jump on a regular basis...like Tom). You probably will find MANY diferent opinions.

PS...I just got back from a sweet A like an hour and a half ago and I still have the smile on my face.

BASE 853

[Geronimo509 0]

Weegegirl relax if you thought that was an attack just go read through the archives of the Baseboard. The comparison of BD to a tandem is fairly accurate. A tandem just walks up and are spoonfed a jump and thats what many, not all, skydivers did at BD. I did my first jump there but it's a cake BASE jump at BD. Sure the danger is still there but it's nothing like standing on an A at 420' with the winds blowing at 8 mph down the wire and its pitch black and you have to make the decision to jump or not. There's a lot of knowledge required in this sport and most people who come and do thier one or two jumps a year at BD don't have, or need, that knowledge and that's fine, but you must realize that BD is not like your average jump. In skydiving you fill out some paperwork pay some money and ride up to altitude and jump. There's a whole lot more work, time, risk and reward with a normal base jump. I'm sure you and everyone understand that but if you look at it that way you can see why people look at BD as being similar to a tandem. Trust me if you get into this enough you too will see it that way. Anyways not trying attack anyone just want you to understand where we're coming from. Also you said:

"This is such a formulated sport with all sorts of rules and regulations"

Trust me the day that's true most BASE jumpers will quit. Take care.
Later
Gabe

[cpoxon 0]

funny you should say that

[weegegirl 2]

First of all, I was being sarcastic - obviously - when I said that it was a formulated sport.

I never claimed to be a "BASE jumper" or to be ready to jump off of anything other than the bridge. I realize that I am not NEARLY experienced enough to do some of the crazy ass things you guys do.... and I'm not sure I'll ever WANT to be.

This forum asked for first jump experiences, and I gave mine. Maybe mine wasn't as "cool" as other BASE jumps, because it was simply off the bridge. I'll tell you what - it was the coolest jump I ever did. Scared the shit out of me - felt wonderful. I wasn't claiming to know EVERYTHING I need to know for the sport.

What happened here, was that a bunch of people with a ton of experience - and rightfully big heads - jumped on me for doing things that they thought were wrong. They took this breath taking, wonderful experience that I had and belittled it and made me feel like a piece of shit for having done it in the first place. I took it as an insult. I thought it was patronizing.

I've asked - quite a bit ago - that this topic be brought back to its origin. I just want everybody to drop it and get off my back. I'm not saying that I'm right or wrong here - I just have my own damn opinion.

I think this has gone on FAR enough. Everybody has taken their jabs at me. Everybody has had the opportunity to feel big and important and to bully the new kid around.

Believe it or not, I'm not a stupid person. I wouldn't do anything that I wasn't prepared for. I'm not going to go make a jump that I'm not ready for. I wish people would give me just a little credit here. Just a little.

Thank you everybody for the helpful tips that were buried in all of this bullshit.

Have a nice day.

BY THE WAY.... this was not directed toward Geronimo.... he was just the one I happened to hit reply to.

[base698 1]

I was retarded and jumped an A from 280 ft by PCA into a average landing area on my first. I did have my own gear though and read the BASE board for a year and half and pestered all the locals for information when I could. I practiced all the BASE drills I could on skydives for 200 jumps and put a few jumps on my Raven that I started on. That only lasted 7 jumps until I got a Fox.

Be careful out there though.

[Jessica 0]

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They took this breath taking, wonderful experience that I had and belittled it and made me feel like a piece of shit for having done it in the first place.

I'm really sorry that some posts on an electronic forum were enough to ruin your first BASE.

I, for one, really appreciated the comments of Tom and others -- I might approach my first Bridge Day in a safer way than I originally would have now, having read the reactions of some experienced BASE jumpers to your post.

Skydiving is for cool people only

[narcimund 0]

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I might approach my first Bridge Day in a safer way than I originally would have now, having read the reactions of some experienced BASE jumpers to your post.

I agree with this. I've also learned from all this not to discuss my experiences in this forum, lest kneejerk experts and psuedo-experts turn on me with "helpful tips buried in bullshit".

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[weegegirl 2]

>>>>

I surrender. If you would like to continue discussing your thoughts on this - I will not try to stop you. But, I am walking away from this thread.

With me, I am taking...

• A suggestion to use BASE specific gear. FYI, I was already looking into the purchase of some ever since I took that first leap off the bridge.

• Some tips on accuracy training with my new BASE gear before jumping off any serious obstacles.

• A suggestion to wait another hundred or so jumps before trying anything more difficult than the bridge.

• A note to self - not to be AS defensive as I was here.

• A second note to self - not to share any experiences that I actually enjoyed - unless I want to have them torn to shreds by big heads.


On that note, I have the utmost respect for anyone that skydives or BASE jumps. We immediately have something very strong in common - a passion to push ourselves to the outer limits. I appreciate beyond words the willingness of those more experienced to offer their skills and knowledge to those who are trying to learn. I hope someday I can come face to face with some of you and we can laugh, make a jump, and have a beer. Until that day, I wish everyone safe and happy jumps.

Be yourself. Be wild. Be free. Fly.

CYA!

[basehoundsam 0]

Weegirl-
I have been BASE jumping for about two years now. I know you have good intentions, and A very hungry interest in this activity, but what's the hurry???? The objects aren't going anywhere. In the end so much of this sport is good judgment, a head game, and gear. I remember my first couple of jumps, I was so un-knowledgeable I didn't even truly understand how a parachute flies, or achieves lift. I just knew it should be big and square. Pull on the toggles, it does this. Pull on the risers it does that.

I got really really lucky...... A VERY GOOD FRIEND OF MINE (NOW), took me under his wing and mentored me through becoming a more well rounded BASE jumper. He is a master rigger, aff, .......ect..... 250+ BASE jumper . I can pass along to you some things I've picked up along the way.


1. Your basically committing suicide without the commitment. Your just saving yourself with a bunch of nylon attached to strings.
2. All you have between you and certain death is your gear. KNOW IT WELL !!!!!
3. It's not a matter of if , it's when you will have a 180 and face an object.
4. You have to be able to be scared out of your skull.....and still perform at higher than optimal levels.
5. You have to be able to be scared out of your skull.....and if you can't perform at higher than optimal levels, have the self moderation to walk off the object..... hey, it'll still be there tomorrow.
6. Realize that BASE and skydiving are to two totally different activities. BASE requires you to be a master packer,canopy pilot,subterminal body pilot, and all around quick on the instant decision making.

These are just a few things to digest. I'm sure you'll either find a suitable mentor, or take a course(P.S. Jimmy and Marta at Vertigo ROCK!!)

See you when I'm looking at yah.....

Jay E.
WWW.ADRENALINEEXPLOITS.COM

p.s. If you want to meet and see tons of Jumpers, the Turkey Boogie in Moab over Thanksgiving is an awesome place to soak up BASE...... I just got back from there last night..........mmmmm..mmmmmmm.......mmmmmmmmmmmmm goooood!!!

Jay Epstein Ramirez
www.adrenalineexploits.com

[motherhucker 0]

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I really really want feedback and constructive criticism. But I won't sit here and be called stupid for going through the learning process.

I can understand how you feel this way. You just achieved your first jump from a fixed object and you might feel like others are minimizing your achievement. In reading some of the comments that upset you, though, they contain good advice. What you have to remember about BASE is that this is a sport where if someone burns in, gets hurt or gets busted, it takes a highly marginalized sport and brings it one step closer to "extinction". You would feel the same way about skydiving if every time a 50 jump wonder decides he has what it takes to 90-270 himself into a double compound fracture, that drop zone was made illegal to jump. BASE jumping has a greater risk factor. There is a better chance that you will get hurt. The comments offered to you were meant to protect you from getting hurt, and protect the greater good of the sport, as well. Please don't take it personally. It's great that you made your first, and hope you're hooked enough to invest in proper gear and training. Just try to understand what you're getting into. It's not skydiving, and there are some harsh realities involved. I'm sure you're aware that the BASE fatality list has had 33%+ of its fatalities this year. That is cause for concern.
'nuff said...I welcome you to BASE jumping and encourage your continued enthusiasm.
the huck.

[billvon 2,396]

>Only 87 skydives and you were happy doing your first BASE jump with
> a modified skydiving rig that was "basically a big piece of crap"???

I'll bet mine was worse; a Pursuit 215 with 1000+ jumps on it and a Swift container. Of course, I made my first BASE jump in 1992, and there wasn't too much in the way of dedicated BASE gear out there. My first NRGB jump (93) saw about 10% dedicated BASE rigs and the rest modified skydiving rigs. I didn't know much about BASE back then, but the stuff I saw was still scary. Even some of the BASE stuff worried me - Harry Parker had a Perigee that would simply not stay closed.

By the time I was working at bridge day (97-98) the number of BASE specific rigs had risen dramatically, and there were way fewer scary rigs. Even first time jumpers had BASE rigs on that they got help with packing.

Not all of us started BASE when good gear was easy to come by.

[Zennie 0]

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Not all of us started BASE when good gear was easy to come by.

And you guys don't get nearly the respect you deserve. I've seen some old video that made my skin crawl. The pioneers of the sport learned everything we know today through trial and (painful) error.

I had the good fortune to meet Rick Harrison a little while back. Super great guy with a lot of really cool stories.

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[motherhucker 0]

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a Pursuit 215 with 1000+ jumps on it and a Swift container. Of course, I made my first BASE jump in 1992...

Yikes! I don't mean the following to sound standoffish or otherwise disrespectful, so all due respect, but that was then, this is now--Wouldn't you agree though that it's not what will "work", but rather what is the most safe/appropriate for the task at hand for BASE these days?
yes, you "old timers" had brass ones. props.
the huck

[skreamer 1]

How many skydives did you have when you made that first BASE jump Bill?
If you made that first jump in 2002 rather than 1992 would you still have used the same gear?
I appreciate what you said with

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Not all of us started BASE when good gear was easy to come by.

regarding my comment about using crap skydiving gear to do Bridge day. But my comment was regarding Bridge Day 2002 not Bridge Day 1992. You guys did the best with what you had at the time.

[chachi 0]

If you think her first experience was silly I will redirect the attention to me. I made my first B.A.S.E. jump off a 195' tower with a not so bad landing area. It was a pilot chute assist with an excellent instructor who ahs been in the sport awhile. The problem comes from the fact that I went to film a friend and asked after she jumped if I could borrow her rig and do one myself. They said sure. So with very little instruction I went and did it. I had about 175 jumps at teh time. Oh well, what can you do. It was the single most amazing thing I have ever done in my life and I honestly would do it again if I had the chance. Thank you to the Karma Gods for taking care of me. I have about 8 B.A.S.E. jumps now. and am saving for a rig. hehe, let the reactions begin.

~chachi

[weegegirl 2]

How dare you!!!!


Bet it was fun! What kind of rig are you gonna get?

[skypuppy 1]

I apologize if my comments were taken personally. I did not mean them to be... Unfortunately I was away for a week a didn't realize they'd caused offense... I stand by my original post that I think a lot of people get into BASE too early simply because of its media prominence now, but I did not mean to disparage your accomplishments...

Skypuppy

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone