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CrashProne

Wingsuit with a Zulu?

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So, I demo'd a Zulu and had a blast. I'm now considering it as a replacement for my Pilot. Anyone have an opinion if it that would be a reasonable and safe wingsuit canopy loaded at 1.4?

I don't know any locals that jump one, wingsuit or otherwise.

Thanks in advance!

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Well, I'm not sure how accurate Aerodyne's formula for "Planform Factor" is when used to determine canopy handling characteristics, but they advertise the PF of the Zulu at 10.0, so you can see where it fits on this matrix of other known canopies.

Pf N
Springo 110 28.0 8 cells tapered
Crossfire2 21.6 8 cells tapered
Safire2 16.4 8 cells tapered
Vision 124 15.5 6 cells tapered
Stiletto 120 13.3 4 cells tapered
Diablo 120 10.7 4 cells tapered
Electra 150 9.5 4 cells tapered
Pilot 124 6.7 4 cells tapered
Sabre2 120 5.4 6 cells tapered

This would be the Zulu 172, loaded at 1.4...

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You really need a non-elliptical canopy for wingsuiting. At no more than wl 1.4 optimally.

Think about this: After having had "a blast" flying your wingsuit in awesome dynamic formations and enjoying the ultimate flying experience one can have in the air together with your friends, for more than 3 minutes, it is *not* time for panic and linetwists. It is then time for calmness, reflection and then to enjoy a safe landing.

That said some of the new ZP wingsuit canopies out there are quite fun to fly and swoop :)

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I fly a big boat and can't speak for spinning twists, but after a few hundred WS jumps I got a lot better at flying the deployment and snivel.

If the jumper is still causing twist by the way the deployment is flown, it would seem to be a completely different consideration than someone that is very good about staying good and straight during deployment. Consider judging yourself along those lines.
Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

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The Pilot is a great WS wing, the Pilot7 as with the Horizon and the Epicene are completely pointless, just marketing shenanigans. I would call them "WS mains with training wheels."

I would tell anyone, if you can't comfortably WS a Pilot, you are doing something wrong. If you want something sportier for canopy flying fun then you have to accept that it won't be as forgiving during deployment.

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Anachronist

The Pilot is a great WS wing, the Pilot7 as with the Horizon and the Epicene are completely pointless, just marketing shenanigans. I would call them "WS mains with training wheels."

I would tell anyone, if you can't comfortably WS a Pilot, you are doing something wrong. If you want something sportier for canopy flying fun then you have to accept that it won't be as forgiving during deployment.




Over ~600 wingsuit jumps I've tried: Sabres, Sabre2s, Storms, Spectres, Triathlons, Volts, Alphas, Safires, and Pilots and even though I think PD makes the best canopies, I have to agree that the WS-specific canopies and the Pilot7 are unnecessary and the good ole original 9cell Pilot is the ultimate WS canopy.

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skydave89

***The Pilot is a great WS wing, the Pilot7 as with the Horizon and the Epicene are completely pointless, just marketing shenanigans. I would call them "WS mains with training wheels."

I would tell anyone, if you can't comfortably WS a Pilot, you are doing something wrong. If you want something sportier for canopy flying fun then you have to accept that it won't be as forgiving during deployment.




Over ~600 wingsuit jumps I've tried: Sabres, Sabre2s, Storms, Spectres, Triathlons, Volts, Alphas, Safires, and Pilots and even though I think PD makes the best canopies, I have to agree that the WS-specific canopies and the Pilot7 are unnecessary and the good ole original 9cell Pilot is the ultimate WS canopy.

What makes it the ultimate WS canopy? I mean, that's such a subjective topic... my Sabre1 does a really good job in my opinion. My previous Sabre2 I also could not complain about... but I can see how if you're pulling from full flight training for BASE deployments you'd want something even more stable than a Sabre1...

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lyosha

******The Pilot is a great WS wing, the Pilot7 as with the Horizon and the Epicene are completely pointless, just marketing shenanigans. I would call them "WS mains with training wheels."

I would tell anyone, if you can't comfortably WS a Pilot, you are doing something wrong. If you want something sportier for canopy flying fun then you have to accept that it won't be as forgiving during deployment.




Over ~600 wingsuit jumps I've tried: Sabres, Sabre2s, Storms, Spectres, Triathlons, Volts, Alphas, Safires, and Pilots and even though I think PD makes the best canopies, I have to agree that the WS-specific canopies and the Pilot7 are unnecessary and the good ole original 9cell Pilot is the ultimate WS canopy.

What makes it the ultimate WS canopy? I mean, that's such a subjective topic... my Sabre1 does a really good job in my opinion. My previous Sabre2 I also could not complain about... but I can see how if you're pulling from full flight training for BASE deployments you'd want something even more stable than a Sabre1...

I also fly Pilot and think exactly the same. Openings are shorter than Sabre2 but not uncomfortably short. A little snivel and the canopy is open and on-heading (If your position is good). In linetwists it's super stable and doesn't dive (even at my WL 1.68).
Still you can do some nice 270s while landing as it's more agressive than 7-cell and recovery arc is not too short (for this kind of canopy).

Totally agree with Anachronist - if your openings on this canopy are bad - you are the reason, not the parachute.

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More great discussion, thanks for the opinions!

I do currently fly a Pilot, but I was hoping to move to something with a less positive recovery arc than the Pilot at 1.4. Maybe Sabre 2 is the next step for me if I'm not ready to pull the trigger on a second rig just yet...

I'll have to take one for a test drive soon.

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skow

***but I was hoping to move to something with a less positive recovery arc



What do you mean? Pilot definitely has a negative recovery arc

Maybe we're using different terms. I guess I refer to it in terms of 'positive pitch stability' in that it recovers quickly to its natural trimmed pitch.

I would prefer a more neutral pitch stability, something that'll stay where I put it longer and recover from a dive more slowly.

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The term you're looking for is 'recovery arc' :)
In that case Sabre 2 might be a good choice. I don't have many jumps on it, but if I am not mistaken it has longer recovery arc than a Pilot (i.e. stays in dive longer after input)

Personally for me it opens too slow, but this is just my preference. Many people like it for wing suiting

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skow

The term you're looking for is 'recovery arc' :)
In that case Sabre 2 might be a good choice. I don't have many jumps on it, but if I am not mistaken it has longer recovery arc than a Pilot (i.e. stays in dive longer after input)

Personally for me it opens too slow, but this is just my preference. Many people like it for wing suiting



Exactly. I'd rather fly a Sabre2 because they're a lot more fun to swoop. But, the openings are a little too slow and snively for wingsuiting. Lots of time for it to start spinning. My Pilot gets out there and gets open before it has a chance to go south, and doesn't break my back like my old Sabre1s did.

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Jumping a canopy not suited for wingsuit flying, and asking about it online is a bit like smoking 5 packs of cigarettes per day.

Everyone knows its just not good for your health, but there will always be someone posting about a grandpa or old friend who has done so for years, and is doing just fine.
JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

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mccordia

Jumping a canopy not suited for wingsuit flying, and asking about it online is a bit like smoking 5 packs of cigarettes per day.

Everyone knows its just not good for your health, but there will always be someone posting about a grandpa or old friend who has done so for years, and is doing just fine.



Lol, I hear you. (I am a rank beginner on a wingsuit with only five flights, all of which were on a Pilot.)

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skow

***but I was hoping to move to something with a less positive recovery arc



What do you mean? Pilot definitely has a negative recovery arci am not sure negative applies.
scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

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Tbh last time I had to jump a pilot it felt like I ended up higher after my turn than I started. 124sqft at 1.75.

After that I started to date the packer to ensure full priority service for my own gear. :P

-------------------------------------------------------

To absent friends

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If you can learn to fly a wingsuit properly with good openings then the Zulu is a really fun canopy to have. I have owned 3 of them. Currently own two sized a 132 and a 152. Wingsuit both of them. Got my first Zulu with about 450 jumps. I have jumped other planforms by Aerodyne, PD, Icarcus, and squirrel.

I wouldn't recommend a highly loaded one but it can be done safely and have lots of fun flying your canopy after a wingsuit flight. I think there is a difference between someone on their intro flights and learning to fly and then those with a couple hundred wingsuit jumps vs those with 500+ wingsuit jumps and those with 1000+. Bigger suits can more flare power and can be controlled but they can also cause disaster and line twists. That beings said some of my best flights and demos have been on a Zulu. Had some crazy cloud lines in a wingsuit followed by fun with riser turns under canopy to a decent swoop. Would I blanket statement and say they are good for everyone no probably not but for the right jumper they can be safe and really fun to fly with a wingsuit.

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