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mjlaw201

Phoniex Fly lead times?

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Anyone can sponsor anyone. Just seems like a lot of excuses.

Squirrel suits always on the podiums, sometimes less than half the lead times, and way better customer service. Sounds like there have been fit issues on both sides, but that's where the customer service comes. Everyone I know who's had a slight fit issue with a squirrel suit has gotten it fixed immediately for free. Not the case with PF. My freind even crushed the gripper on his second hand Aura when he stepped on it and they fixed it for free.

Seems like all you have bad to say is "Vietnamese flap flap" :ph34r:

Whats the point of living if you aren't doing what you love?

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If people still choose these wingsuits even with the lead times and the lack of communication maybe it means the suit are good or at least please them enough (or just cheaper :D).

For the competition, the guys like Noah, Julian... will wins even with a plastig bag and most of the comps are in the US with all competitors in Squirrel so obviously "full Squirrel podium". It was the same with Tony just couple of years ago (or in Hungary with full Intrudair ;) )

Anyway, it was not about PF vs Squirrel. ;)

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Didn't we already do this exact same thread last year? Likely the year before that as well? With the exact same people making the exact same comments? Wingsuits have gotten boring.

Phoenix fly sucks because...the have a smaller factory and it sometimes takes a long time to get suits.

Squirrel sucks because... they have access to a giant state of the art production facility in Vietnam

The freak 1 tail flapped some on its back
Some early v3s flapped in steep dives

Every company has made amazing state of the art suits, and some shitty ones along the way too.

Yawn

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Only one brand is buying athletes. Haha it's not hard to see. The good pilots are going to win if they fly and train in equivalent sized performance suits. The data you refer to is misleading to any kind of superiority. You're clinging to it to justify your brand preference. That doesn't make you right or wrong. You like what you like. But if you want specifics as to why they are referred to as Vietnamese flap flaps.

Every suit I ever owned from squirrel (hatch, funk1, funk2, freak, colugo, aura2) all either kind of fit or fit well when I first got it but then 40-50 jumps in the material relaxed too much and became more of a baggy fit.

Freak has major inflation issues on its back. I emailed them asking if there was a design issue or something maybe forgotten on my suit. They told me no, I just don't know how to back fly and that the tail inflates perfectly.

The funk1, slow as all hell.

The funk2, normal speed but it flaps just like the freak does if it's not maxed out.

Epicene, went out of symmetry in less than 40 jumps and had a built in turn. Multiple others at the dz had the same issue. Squirrel claims no fault and blames container fit. Rigger inspected and lines were in trim but said it's an issue with poor quality f111 canopies.

I do refer to them as Vietnamese flap flaps, and that's what they are. I've been disappointed by every suit I've owned from them. Had 500+ jumps on their suits before I tried and loved Phoenix Fly suits.

Again I say, we all prefer different things. You can justify your preference any way you want. We all have different perspectives. Buy whatever you want to spend your money on. I don't like the brand you fly - and that's why I quit buying them.

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Sounds like it will all work out, I've had much better experience, quality, and customer service with Squirrel, and you have had the same with PF. If you don't buy Squirrel that might bump my lead time up by a day or two, and if I don't buy PF your leadtime might not get bumped back a few weeks! :P

Whats the point of living if you aren't doing what you love?

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So you bought six (6) winguits and a canopy from squirrel and have been disappointed by EVERY item? Does this say something about the manufacturer or yourself? Personally I would call it quits after 1 unrequitted purchase. Disclaimer: crushed the uncrushable in a P2, and love the C2.

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Nailed it.

No company is perfect.

Squirrel seems to have the advantage in lead times and customer service, but I know quite a few people (myself included) that have had to send gear back due to poor quality control. In my case it was two different sets of risers. That said, my Freak is a work of art!

PF seems to have the advantage in QC. But the price of this quality assurance can be long lead times. Sorry guys, high end custom stuff takes time.

That said, every manufacturer can and will make mistakes. We're all human. Stop being so dogmatic and try to appreciate that we have options and we're able to cast votes with our dollars.
Apex BASE
#1816

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Sorry guys for Swiss Post just to be sure there is clear talk in this reply :


Liebe C.Z. (Virgin-Burner)
Im Name vom allne Schwizer möcht i dir gärn säge, dass di Uftritt im Netz weder dir no süsch öpperem hilft. Du machsch di eifach nur lächerlich. I finde bim beschte Wille keini fründleche Wort für dir das Ganze ds erkläre und äs wird dir sicher nid gfalle.
So wie du dini Marke allne andere vorziesch und glichzitig immer uf ne bestimmti Marke pissisch, bezwäcksch nur dass alli Marke schlächt usgseh. Du bisch absolut nutzlos für dini Marke FLY und die andere wo du hassisch, wärde zum Opfer vomene hässige, unfaire und parteiische Mensch, wo nach am Wahnsinn isch. Im Klartext: du gsesch us wie öpper, wo psychisch labil isch und wenn me nüt vo dire Erchrankig weiss denn het me ds Gfüehl, du sigsch eifach e grundböse Mensch.
I ha ghört, wie d’Lüt über di rede und das si nid schöni Sache aber leider beurteile si di uf Grund vo dine Ussage im Internet. Isches das was du wotsch? Dir sälber i ds Bei schiesse? Genau das passiert wenn du so witer machsch.
Du bringsch di i Gfahr falls du dene Lüt sötsch begägne wo du so dermasse schigganiersch und kritisiersch. Und äs isch nid unwarschinlech, dass das gli chönnt si. I wett denn lieber nid i dire Hut stecke.
I möcht dir a ds Härz lege: dänk über das alles nache und dänk a d‘Schwizerfahne näbe dim Name. Du bisch ä Schand für alli und das akzeptiere mier so nid.
Merci.

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Haha it says something about both me and manufacturer. At the time I only had the i, t, and r to compare to. And those were rentals. I knew there was quality issues but thought it was the norm among wingsuits. I was wrong and found that for me - Phoenix Fly has what I want in a suit. I don't mind waiting. I always have enough wingsuits around to fly.

Try brands and put your money with the one you prefer. And if possible try before you buy. And try different brands if you're feeling up for it.

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BryanCampau

Only one brand is buying athletes. Haha it's not hard to see.



Bacause Noah and Julien woudn't otherwise get wingsuits from any manufactured so they are doomed to fly those shitty vietnamese flap flaps :D

You all PF fanboys are getting more ridiculous every day :D:D

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Yes you right it takes time ...
It takes sometimes 5 months no news from one companie.
or it takes sometimes 5 weeks with a system we can see the order progress and we always get an answer fast by email.
Bluhdow don't talk about dogma you work for a company that now feels the pressure to and you posts are obvious and your motivaton its clear. your post has no reason xcept a very not so clever insult :)

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Skow, you're quite the comedian.... You're probably one good post away from getting a free Vietnamese flap flap. You should post again. ;)

Keep buying your Squirrel suits and I'm going to keep buying my Phoenix fly suits. I don't really care how you justify buying from them. We live in a world where we all don't have to agree.

Arguing brands is about as fun as arguing religion. No one is convincing any one here.

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Since we have information available to us you cannot pretend that its just opinion … so you desperately say that PF is equal <>.
I am curious where is the evidence? Your kings : Jarno Sam Nate Dougs all are in redbullaces. Sam and Nate did no qualify. Dougs was dead last. Jarno barely made top half. And everyone else flys Squirrel.
Jarno, best wingsuit pilot in the known universe got beat by Marshall Miller in WWL and 3 other Squirrels, who win top 4. How is this possible if Jarnos suit is better than marshalls suit ???
So you have really nothing to support what you are saying. Only your angry opinon. And the only people who have this opinion so strong is you and robert pecnik. and jarno.

We understand that you love PF, good for you. We get that Squirrels made you mad somehow ok! no problem. But stop whinging here about it. Everyone is tired of it.

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Squirrel is for douches, PF is for elitists, and Tony is for anyone stuck in 2013. Am I doing this right?

Joking aside: this shit makes me roll my eyes so hard I think I pulled a muscle in the sockets. Wingsuits don't need to turn into the American political system where people get on their side of the aisle and start blindly screaming at the other side. At this point every suit from any of the top guys will have similar performance to its counterpart from another brand. That said, I think everyone would agree there's a major difference in feel amongst the brands. Still, throw Jarno in a Freak and I'm sure he could flare it up like crazy, then put Andy in a Havok and I'm sure he'd be carving circles around people.

At least we can all agree Wingsuits > RW and Freeflying

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Haha just when you think the thread is dead we have one more show up to try to justify their preference.

Gruezi, I'm wondering how you feel the results of a competition based on speed that was designed by squirrel collectively with Red bull is the only measure for the quality of a wing suit?

I'm glad that you really like your Squirrel suits, keep buying them. You aren't convincing anyone of anything. I'm really not sure why you are so concerned that I have a distaste for them and a favor for Phoenix Fly.

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Quote

Jarno barely made top half.



And several other incredible pilots like Scott Palmer and Mike Swanson didn't even make it past the wildcard races. Cruising around in the 'slow' Alpine and doing all that for the first time, Ill gladly take top 10 out of 36 amazing flyers.

You win some you loose some. Something most people attending understand, but people playing keyboard warrior have difficulty with. Most top suits do similar speed and glide, and its the athlete skill and performance that day that sets it aside.

Quote

Jarno, best wingsuit pilot in the known universe got beat by Marshall Miller in WWL



Marshall was 9th, I was 5th. Or is there some alternative facts score sheet I'm not aware of?
In terms of Aces, I think top 1/3rd also seems more accurate than 'barely top half' but I understand the influence trump is having on reporting of facts.

All of these performance races revolve around training, skill and most of the people will do close to the same results in any suit. As is evident by some of the athletes switching brands annually, depending on what sponsor contract is given, yet pretty much ending up on the podium spot in the same position.

I personally fly PF as I have a certain clean flying style and precision in what I do, when it comes to acrobatics. I have tried similar carving, diving and more in various other brands and though possible, the differing fit and design, to me, mandated a bigger/rougher style of flying Im not a fan of myself. People trying my suits as a demo, I do get to fly other brands a lot, and can't say Ive found any suit that convinced me I should switch up my orange for something else. But someone else might find that to be the other way around. That's why there is a choice. In performance races, a lot of people fly one brand. Look at Acro and you pretty much see the same thing reversed.

In winter leadtimes with PF are around 2 to 3 weeks. Right now it's around 3 months. This is due to a volume of orders beyond what we've ever seen. I'm not fully sure how that translates to 'PF is going out of business', but clearly some people know better.

I travel the word fulltime, with boogies in every country, and in most of those, PF is a huge brand in terms of representation among attendees. Come July we have one of the biggest events worldwide, where 90+ out of 130 people attending are in PF suits. Thats 100% paying customers, flying new suits they bought the past year.
Intrudair seems to be the second brand in terms of customer choice here in EU.
For sure, leadtime is a factor for some. For others, they just want to fly the product of their choice (whichever brand), and accept that some take longer than others.

PF leadtimes vary depending on the time in the season due to a reason. We don't outsource to other countries, which also is not meant to imply there is a bad thing about others do choosing to doing so. Robert supports the EU community/jobs and values loyalty and craftsmanship in his workers, and rewards them the same way. With most of them sewing suits for him since 1999.

I'm 100% sure the rambling will go on. But here are some words from Robert:

Quote

To our customers and supporters.
I would like to take this opportunity to thank you all for your ultimate trust and faith in our products, and would like to thank you for being patient and tolerant throughout the 18 years of Phoenix Fly existence.
All these years we’ve experienced a very successful development and steady growth. I have always designed my suits with passion, love and care. Also, from the very beginning, I’ve decided to care about my staff as if they were my family. That was my decision back then and I’ve stuck to it. Most of my employees have been with me from the very beginning, and we’ve all grown together, focused on the same goals.
Phoenix Fly will never be a company that has a production line with 100+ anonymous workers somewhere in the Far East. This is simply not my way of doing business. Also, Phoenix Fly will keep the number of employees at the level that I am comfortable with, in order to maintain detailed control of the production process and quality of our products.
This is the only way I can ensure that Phoenix Fly will always be a company that offers a wide range of suits on a very demanding market. This way we can ensure that all the suits are, and will be, high quality products, custom made with passion and care.
Of course, the decision to run a business this way has consequences as well. And one of the most difficult ones is, of course, delivery time!
Therefore, there is nothing else to say to all my customers, but a big thank you! Thank you for trusting and believing in us! I am happy to see that all of you, my customers, are willing to wait for your suit, regardless of the long lead time. And for me, this is proof that my products are good.
Throughout the history of Phoenix Fly I have never been as busy as I am now. Obviously, suits like Vampire Sukhoi, Vampire Alpine, Strix, Havoc Carve, Phantom, Onesie, Track suits and PTS are the best suits in their class, and worth the wait.
I would like you to know that I am doing everything in my power to speed up the production process. We are hiring additional staff and we are working overtime in order to shorten wait times.
I can promise you that in the future I am going to continue to do my best to make excellent, crisp, distinguished suits, with new and unique features as always.
Thank you and all the best to all of you!
I wish you a nice and above all a safe flying season!
Robert Pecnik


JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

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