lyosha 50 #1 March 14, 2017 Highly loaded reserve + mandatory shit body position after WS cutaway = https://www.facebook.com/dominic.roithmair/videos/vb.1462110805/10212014803153033 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnmatrix 21 #2 March 14, 2017 Am guessing he was one of the "I don't use an RSL because I don't want line twists on my reserve" crowd as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdynamnam 28 #3 March 14, 2017 Careful there. Don't think no RSL was the issue in this case and there are video's out there where the RSL really creates the problem. It really is up to people to choose and it is a very personal choice for experienced people like this guy.... It's great people upload these kind of vid's. Will help some people (re)think there own procedures, opening altitude, speed when deploying, the basic decision process; stay with it or not. That said jumper certainly did a great job coming out of these line twists. So what are the issues in this jump besides going a bit too low? 1) Works too long time on the non solvable problem burning precious altitude and 2) having a tiny reserve (126) as the backup plan? Is the reserve WL the issue here, anyone? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thijs 0 #4 March 14, 2017 RSL/MARD would have made him loose less altitude after the cutaway and give him more time to deal with potential problems. Probably would have also given him less line twists or even none at all. While it is a 'personal choice' the statistics on RSL/MARD use are pretty clear. I prefer a few line twists at 1000 ft over a partially inflated reserve at 0ft. And obviously, when upsizing your main, it is probably not a bad idea to upsize your reserve as well. Funny how people say they need a big low bulk canopy as a main for wingsuiting, but totally forget about their reserve... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pobrause 6 #5 March 14, 2017 His reserve WL is about 1.5, not really high by nowadays standards imo. And that snivel truly isn't helping in situations like this, if ever...------------------------------------------------------- To absent friends Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 63 #6 March 14, 2017 Reserve is PD Optimum, which is known for slower (bit snivelly) openings and being more prone to line twists. Tons of videos on YouTube. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnmatrix 21 #7 March 14, 2017 birdynamnamCareful there. Don't think no RSL was the issue in this case and there are video's out there where the RSL really creates the problem. My point was that some people complain about reports of RSLs contributing to reserve line twists - when without one, you may end up in line twists anyway, just lower. Agree it's great that people posts these videos, as we can learn from them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skow 6 #8 March 14, 2017 ThijsWhile it is a 'personal choice' the statistics on RSL/MARD use are pretty clear. I prefer a few line twists at 1000 ft over a partially inflated reserve at 0ft. . My internal technical nazi ordered me to say that in this video reserve actually was fully inflated. Anyway, IMHO in applications where linetwists are more probable (i.e. wingsuits) I personally think getting as big reserve as you possibly can is a good idea. In my case my reserve is bigger than main (160 vs 150 Pilot) and I see a big advantage here in lower bulk reserves as Optimum or Speed 2000 and the fact youcan squeeze one size (or maybe 2) bigger reserve than normally, even if you'd loose a 100-200 feet on opening Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #9 March 14, 2017 Quote Agree it's great that people posts these videos, as we can learn from them. Not really. The first problem was that he had a OPT. The second was that he used it. If he had had a PDR instead, we would more than likely not be having this discussion, Wake up people!!! MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdynamnam 28 #10 March 14, 2017 masterrigger1 Not really. The first problem was that he had a OPT. The second was that he used it. If he had had a PDR instead, we would more than likely not be having this discussion, Wake up people!!! MEL Arrrghhhhhh, seriously? I have an Opt :-| Though bigger.... So mr. Masterrigger, would a Smart LPV be better less prone to linetwists? PDR I would not like the xtra bulk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,927 #11 March 14, 2017 PobrauseHis reserve WL is about 1.5, not really high by nowadays standards imo. And that snivel truly isn't helping in situations like this, if ever... Well, over what looks like open desert a smallish reserve is probably OK. However, if you end up under your reserve with only someone's small back yard as a landing option while flying a canopy that you may never have jumped before, I think a big one would be preferable.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
q1w2e3_89 0 #12 March 15, 2017 I am all for RSL and tend to use that argument myself, but the statistics are quite incomplete. We have a decent idea of the probability of RSL causing malfunctions with the reserve, but we do not have definitive statistics on 1) non-RSL malfunctions that would have been avoided with an RSL, and 2) RSL malfunctions that would have been avoided without an RSL. All we can do is speculate. In this instance, a RSL would most likely have given the jumper more altitude, but it is not certain whether he would have ended up facing a whole set of different malfunctions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DHemer 0 #13 March 15, 2017 I agree, Low bulk reserves just make sense. Is your issue with a low bulk reserve or the OPT in particular? I feel much happier with a 150 reserve than a 120/135 in my rig. If I got to land a canopy in a shitty situation I want it to be larger and if I have a cypress fire due to being unconscious I want a larger canopy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdynamnam 28 #14 March 15, 2017 DHemerI agree, Low bulk reserves just make sense. Is your issue with a low bulk reserve or the OPT in particular? I feel much happier with a 150 reserve than a 120/135 in my rig. If I got to land a canopy in a shitty situation I want it to be larger and if I have a cypress fire due to being unconscious I want a larger canopy it's with the OPT design - I see no advantage to have a sniveling reserve on my back as a wingsuit'er. I recently replaced my PDR with an OPT, didn't think much about it it other than reducing packvolume one size down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedWingsuits 0 #15 March 15, 2017 PobrauseHis reserve WL is about 1.5, not really high by nowadays standards imo. And that snivel truly isn't helping in situations like this, if ever... It's not so great to be so highly loaded if you are unconscious and unable to control the canopy.Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 63 #16 March 15, 2017 You have other low-bulk reserves, which do NOT snivel: Aerodyne Smart LPV Icarus Nano Paratec Speed 2000 . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pobrause 6 #17 March 15, 2017 By that logic you should jump a round reserve.------------------------------------------------------- To absent friends Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedWingsuits 0 #18 March 15, 2017 PobrauseBy that logic you should jump a round reserve. That just isn't realistic and since there are many times you won't be unconscious it makes sense to have something that you can land. The point is that everyone thinks about what reserve they can "land" when there are scenarios, especially in wingsuiting, where you won't be in control. I personally know of 3 wingsuiters that had no part in landing their reserve.Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,927 #19 March 15, 2017 PobrauseBy that logic you should jump a round reserve. Only if you expect to be unconscious during every cutaway.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanielRistow 3 #20 March 15, 2017 Here's a MARD save and what looks like the same DZ. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ctim2aDfQJs. Still ended up with a bunch of linetwists but not quite as bad. Personally for me I would want either a MARD or nothing. Since an RSL is the same as pulling your reserve as soon as your risers realease, it will be better in some situations but could be worse if you know your body position will be terrible on release. Since I don't have a MARD, I leave my standard RSL disconnected for wingsuit jumps knowing if I need to I can pull my reserve as soon as I disconnect from my main, but if I have the altitude and I'm in a bad position to deploy immediately, I can take a second to get stable. But that's just my opinion and what suits me. Everyone should educate themselves and make their own choices with what they feel comfortable with.Whats the point of living if you aren't doing what you love? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thijs 0 #21 March 16, 2017 DanielRistowSince an RSL is the same as pulling your reserve as soon as your risers realease I know two people who had issues locating their handles. One had an RSL and was eventually able to pull the cutaway handle and have a reserve opening because of the RSL. Another one could find his cutaway handle, but reserve handle was inside the suit. No RSL. Rode a spinning main into the ground. Luckily landed on the rooftop of a supermarket and only had a broken ankle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanielRistow 3 #22 March 16, 2017 Brutal. I know of one person who was a newer jumper (don't ask me how he did it or no one noticed it) zipped his Swift but BASE mode on a skydive. He upsized to a swift after a few unstable flights in a phantom, got unstable trying to pitch and by the time he got out of his flatspin he was too scared to try to pull again and flew it till his AAD fired. And one other person who didn't use anything to hold their zippers together and sucked his handle in but managed to fish it out. I've never had an issue as long as I either have my zippers tied or clipped with a mini carabiner, but I guess anything possible.Whats the point of living if you aren't doing what you love? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnmatrix 21 #23 March 17, 2017 DanielRistow too scared to try to pull again and flew it till his AAD fired. Mad skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skydivesg 7 #24 March 21, 2017 I'm not replying to anyone in particular - nor am I trying to convince those who's minds are clearly made up. But for those of you who are willing to consider some other ideas >> This person was experiencing what at first appears to be a tension knot. It turns out it was actually a clear tubular rubber slider stop that he neglected to tack down so it would not slide up the lines and keep the slider from sliding down, which is exactly what happened. This is something we learned to do more than 30 years ago. I actually thought people stopped using them more than 20 years ago. When I saw how tight the line group was held from the riser to the slider - it was the first thing I looked for on the video because it's a clear indicator of something other than a tension knot. If you look carefully you can see the other three slider bumpers on the other risers. After fooling around with it for an extended period of time, he cut away and deployed his Optimum. He ended up with numerous line twists The canopy began to spin and dive. And he was able to get out of the twists and dive just in time to land the canopy. Afterwards he said “I’m getting rid of this slow opening Optimum” What he failed to realize was that there were a number of factors that led him to the bad place he was in, and the speed of the OP opening had nothing to do with it. • He took a long time before cutting away the malfunctioning main. • The reserve deployed straight, and the line twists came from the jumper spinning under the canopy, NOT the canopy turning. Most likely from body position with the wing suit and because he failed to keep his leg wings closed during deployment of the reserve. • The risers are offset which continues the turn eventually into a dive. This was largely because he reached up and grabbed the risers asymmetrically. • The canopy was only 126 sq ft. with a WL of 1.5 Sometimes it’s easier to blame something else than what’s really at fault… The OP opens wonderfully. The canopy travels quickly and smoothly through all three stages of the opening rather than sort of snivel – pop type opening. Over 10 years of field use has shown this. The dynamics of the OP deployment are designed to exhibit lower opening forces on the jumper. To most people, especially those who have jumped a traditional reserve, this softer opening would be equated to slower. But that isn’t necessarily the case. That FEELING of slower if your cutting away from a fully inflated canopy and quickly going to your reserve, is what you’re going to get with most reserves. Those softer (not always slower) openings of the OP can mean the difference between life and death if your deploying at above average speeds with which a huge percentage of people in our sport tend to flirt. The OP has actually been dropped at higher weights and speeds for those who might think the low bulk fabric is weaker. All around this is a better reserve, and after years of doing my own research and jumping many, many other reserves - it’s the one I put on my own back. JMHOBe the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdynamnam 28 #25 March 22, 2017 Yes to all that. As for the reserve, it comes down to WL and it looks like that the WL is too high; expert level maximum would require that the jumpers naked weight be less than 150lbs. The suit weighs in also at 7 lbs. A wingsuit jumper have additional stuff to deal with and would be safer at a lower WL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites