Cypres AAD for Wingsuit

[pchapman 261]

It's OK if people want to say, "Airtec never tells us anything, they're arrogant, the bastards!" I can't argue much with that.

It's also OK to have some skepticism about the difficult task of making an AAD recognize different flight modes, especially with wingsuits.

But at least give them a chance.

It's like people are saying, "How dare any company in the world even mention an upcoming product without having all marketing materials and specifications ready to publish, and a full warehouse of product ready to ship! They must maintain Apple-like secrecy until full product launch or else they lose my trust -- but as soon as they announce, they have to tell us everything, right away!"

[SethInMI 145]

Interesting thinking about this the past few days.

Obviously you really don't want it switching to canopy mode until you are under canopy. I think the easiest way to do that is to make the check time longer, so that your average descent rate must be under X mph for Y seconds (under 20 mph for 30 sec for example), long enough that a wingsuit flare would not set it off.

Then after deployment you would expect / wait for the canopy mode chime while you are finishing up your housekeeping, unzipping, slider stow, chest strap, etc. Once you hear the chime you can pop the brakes and go.

It will be a lot easier for the community to experiment with the canopy mode detection, as that feature will be activated every skydive. Contrast this with the cutter firing logic which is difficult / costly for a skydiver to experiment with.

It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".

[lyosha 46]

Cypres has a history of saying "trust us, it'll work" instead of explaining how their devices work.

[tamagotchi 0]

Why switching to an other Mode like pro or speed?

What´s up with switching off after the unit registerted that the canopy is open.

For what you need a second activationmode? I understand the lower activation speed for the freefall / flight with the wingsuit but when you finished that part you don´t really need a second activationmode.

When you switch it to pro you never will get that speed under wingsuit friendly canopies to activate it and thinking about to switching it to speedmode is timewaste.

So for why that switching? I´m not an IT-man just my thinking about it and to switch something off is easier as to switch in an other mode. Or i´m wrong in that? Like i said i´m not a software or IT man.

[Pobrause 6]

If you can't come up with several good reasons to have a working cypres/AAD under canopy by yourself, here are just two of many examples:
http://www.deepseed.com/d-spot/blog/liam/inside-no-pull-cypres-save-0

https://jointheteem.com/sky/friday-freakout/friday-freakout-wingsuiter-uses-all-9-lives-saved-by-aad/

I'd consider a conservative 9 cell 120/135 loaded at 1.6 a reasonable choice for wingsuiting. And still I am fairly sure I'd trigger the wingsuit flight fire parameters on any given landing with a nice 270°

-------------------------------------------------------

To absent friends

[birdynamnam 28]

lyosha

Cypres has a history of saying "trust us, it'll work" instead of explaining how their devices work.

true that. But hey a normal AAD does not do much in comparison to this device and I can't even think about A question for Airtec on the normal AAD as I understand what it does and how.

[FB1609 0]

Maybe someone could integrate some GPS into one, that shows the unit if horizontal speed is involved, and at what point it ends.

[Rstanley0312 0]

lyosha

Cypres has a history of saying "trust us, it'll work" instead of explaining how their devices work.

and guess what... they work. They have been around a long time and have learned quite a bit. Other AAD manufacturers have made mistakes that CYPRES already had accounted for... they just change them on the down low once they see they did not account for it. That's worse than CYPRES saying, get it checked and we will update the unit when we learn more (yes this has happened more than once). Frankly I think this crap about CYPRES should tell all is insane. Other tech companies would never do that yet we skydivers think we can say that they should. I know a lot more than the average skydiver about AAD's but so can you. If you take the time you can actually find out quite a bit and I fully promote that!

CYPRES is my choice and I admire that they are trying to figure out the wingsuit differences. Criticizing them for promoting a company project is business and any beef with that is just silly imo. I am also not on here bashing Vigil every chance I get just becasue I choose CYPRES. I do think my choice is a better product for a slew of reasons.... that's why I chose it. So educate yourself and make an EDUCATED decision.

To all of the young jumpers out there, I would say that it is a good practice to read through the history of certain jumpers that seem to always be bashing certain products/companies. They have an axe to grind and it's probably unjustified most of the time. You will see this in all areas i.e. canopies, AAD's, containers, etc.

To the wingsuiters out there.... won't it be awesome when CYPRES is ready to launch a product that can save your ass like they did so long ago for freefall? Don't worry vigil people.... vigil will attempt to copy it eventually and get close I am sure... but hey they will make up for the shortcomings by offering it to you cheaper! Hiayo.... I kid

-Rob

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[mathrick 2]

Rstanley0312

***Cypres has a history of saying "trust us, it'll work" instead of explaining how their devices work.

and guess what... they work. They have been around a long time and have learned quite a bit. Other AAD manufacturers have made mistakes that CYPRES already had accounted for...

Yeah, like the mistake of NOT making their product crash and still present the "ready" display despite being completely non-operational, the way Cypres did? Or the mistake of not being sensitive to radio interference, like Cypres 1? Those sure were great features there, I wish others had copied them!

Stop your fanboy wank, it's not actually presenting any information. Cypres is a complex electronic device with embedded software, and suffers from the same problems all other complex electronic devices with embedded software do. The difference is that for other AADs, you have a chance of hearing something about the changes (admittedly not much, but it's still better than nothing).

"Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces."

[Anachronist 2]

Rstanley0312

***Cypres has a history of saying "trust us, it'll work" instead of explaining how their devices work.

and guess what... they work. They have been around a long time and have learned quite a bit. Other AAD manufacturers have made mistakes that CYPRES already had accounted for... they just change them on the down low once they see they did not account for it. That's worse than CYPRES saying, get it checked and we will update the unit when we learn more (yes this has happened more than once). Frankly I think this crap about CYPRES should tell all is insane. Other tech companies would never do that yet we skydivers think we can say that they should. I know a lot more than the average skydiver about AAD's but so can you. If you take the time you can actually find out quite a bit and I fully promote that!

CYPRES is my choice and I admire that they are trying to figure out the wingsuit differences. Criticizing them for promoting a company project is business and any beef with that is just silly imo. I am also not on here bashing Vigil every chance I get just becasue I choose CYPRES. I do think my choice is a better product for a slew of reasons.... that's why I chose it. So educate yourself and make an EDUCATED decision.

To all of the young jumpers out there, I would say that it is a good practice to read through the history of certain jumpers that seem to always be bashing certain products/companies. They have an axe to grind and it's probably unjustified most of the time. You will see this in all areas i.e. canopies, AAD's, containers, etc.

To the wingsuiters out there.... won't it be awesome when CYPRES is ready to launch a product that can save your ass like they did so long ago for freefall? Don't worry vigil people.... vigil will attempt to copy it eventually and get close I am sure... but hey they will make up for the shortcomings by offering it to you cheaper! Hiayo.... I kid

-Rob

Hahaha, yeah and both Cypress and Vigil are on their 3rd generation cutters. I don't bash Cypress, I just don't like their business practices, but I'm not going to kiss their ass either.

Vigil pretty much tells all, as it were.

To add to that, watch out for people who push one product as "far superior" to anything else, they are usually sponsored, sell them, or have a personal relationship with the company.

Hahaha, low and behold, Mr Stanley's profile website lists SSK (Cypress) as a partner/sponsor... who wudda guessed

[Rstanley0312 0]

Anachronist

******Cypres has a history of saying "trust us, it'll work" instead of explaining how their devices work.

and guess what... they work. They have been around a long time and have learned quite a bit. Other AAD manufacturers have made mistakes that CYPRES already had accounted for... they just change them on the down low once they see they did not account for it. That's worse than CYPRES saying, get it checked and we will update the unit when we learn more (yes this has happened more than once). Frankly I think this crap about CYPRES should tell all is insane. Other tech companies would never do that yet we skydivers think we can say that they should. I know a lot more than the average skydiver about AAD's but so can you. If you take the time you can actually find out quite a bit and I fully promote that!

CYPRES is my choice and I admire that they are trying to figure out the wingsuit differences. Criticizing them for promoting a company project is business and any beef with that is just silly imo. I am also not on here bashing Vigil every chance I get just becasue I choose CYPRES. I do think my choice is a better product for a slew of reasons.... that's why I chose it. So educate yourself and make an EDUCATED decision.

To all of the young jumpers out there, I would say that it is a good practice to read through the history of certain jumpers that seem to always be bashing certain products/companies. They have an axe to grind and it's probably unjustified most of the time. You will see this in all areas i.e. canopies, AAD's, containers, etc.

To the wingsuiters out there.... won't it be awesome when CYPRES is ready to launch a product that can save your ass like they did so long ago for freefall? Don't worry vigil people.... vigil will attempt to copy it eventually and get close I am sure... but hey they will make up for the shortcomings by offering it to you cheaper! Hiayo.... I kid

-Rob

Hahaha, yeah and both Cypress and Vigil are on their 3rd generation cutters. I don't bash Cypress, I just don't like their business practices, but I'm not going to kiss their ass either.

Vigil pretty much tells all, as it were.

To add to that, watch out for people who push one product as "far superior" to anything else, they are usually sponsored, sell them, or have a personal relationship with the company.

Hahaha, low and behold, Mr Stanley's profile website lists SSK (Cypress) as a partner/sponsor... who wudda guessed

I have said it before..... they give swag etc. to my non-profit events. So does UPT and other companies so I have to disclose that. I am not hiding it, I am proud that they help out so many non-profit causes. I am not the guy out there getting a free CYPRES. Long before that I jumped a CYPRES and when Vigil came out I looked in to the product and the company and I chose CYPRES still. (This was before they offered anything to our non-profit events)

I disagree with your opinion of their business practices. The idea that the other companies "disclose more" is laughable.

I am not kissing their ass I am giving my opinion and telling others to actually learn about AADs and what they do so they can make an informed decision. I also said my opinion is that CYPRES is a better product. Again, I said find out for yourself. I am trying to help the younger generation, not just be some guy that bashes this or that. Those that do that are not the ones I want the younger generation to learn from. Especially when it is obvious that they do it over and over.

Bashing the product or the company with little knowledge is questionable at best.

Rob

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[Rstanley0312 0]

mathrick

******Cypres has a history of saying "trust us, it'll work" instead of explaining how their devices work.

and guess what... they work. They have been around a long time and have learned quite a bit. Other AAD manufacturers have made mistakes that CYPRES already had accounted for...

Yeah, like the mistake of NOT making their product crash and still present the "ready" display despite being completely non-operational, the way Cypres did? Or the mistake of not being sensitive to radio interference, like Cypres 1? Those sure were great features there, I wish others had copied them!

Stop your fanboy wank, it's not actually presenting any information. Cypres is a complex electronic device with embedded software, and suffers from the same problems all other complex electronic devices with embedded software do. The difference is that for other AADs, you have a chance of hearing something about the changes (admittedly not much, but it's still better than nothing).


I'm sorry I told younger jumpers my opinion and also told them to learn about the gear and make an informed decision. Apparently that offended you bc you jump a Vigil. Based on your profile I'd say you are the target audience of my post. I hope as a low timer that you are learning about the gear yourself. If you are, that's great!

Rob

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[mathrick 2]

No, it didn't offend me, it annoyed me because it's fanboy wank pretending that Cypres is the be-all end-all omniscient godsend with no flaws, and then you have the gall to claim this is about making "informed decisions" and "learning about your gear". What you wrote is the exact opposite of those things; it's bullshit that would serve to misinform and take knowledge away were any naïve fresh jumper to believe it. It has nothing to do with what I jump, because I am aware that Vigil is also a complex electronic device with embedded software subject to flaws. It happens to have the particular set of flaws I mind less, and flaws I can actually discuss and make informed decisions about, because it's not being marketed by fanboys who'd rather have me take unnecessary risk than disclose the fact their beloved Cypres is not, in fact, omniscient and infallible.

"Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces."

[Anachronist 2]

mathrick

No, it didn't offend me, it annoyed me because it's fanboy wank pretending that Cypress is the be-all end-all omniscient godsend with no flaws, and then you have the gall to claim this is about making "informed decisions" and "learning about your gear". What you wrote is the exact opposite of those things; it's bullshit that would serve to misinform and take knowledge away were any naïve fresh jumper to believe it. It has nothing to do with what I jump, because I am aware that Vigil is also a complex electronic device with embedded software subject to flaws. It happens to have the particular set of flaws I mind less, and flaws I can actually discuss and make informed decisions about, because it's not being marketed by fanboys who'd rather have me take unnecessary risk than disclose the fact their beloved Cypress is not, in fact, omniscient and infallible.

Yeah, in many industries I would agree that there is a certain degree of seniority that conveys a level of understanding that cannot be attained elsewhere. Not so much in skydiving, while there are exceptions to the rule of course and lots of meaningful experience from a small number of old timers who are heavily involved with industry R&D, I find in general the older a jumper, the more ass backwards their thinking is. I also find in life as a whole, the more vehemently someone defends a position, the less validity they have for doing so.

The business practices I referred to were not only disclosure but (until recently) a maintenance and arbitrarily short retirement schedule that made Cypress literally twice as expensive as a Vigil over the units' lives (planned obsolescence).

I admit, I'm a bit of an idealist, I look down on vanity pricing and planned obsolesce; I believe in offering a quality product at a reasonable price, especially when it comes down to a safety device. But if you're into unfettered capitalism that exploits people's naivety, then go for it I suppose (most of the skydiving industry is anyway).

[gowlerk 1,903]

Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces. All bow to the God Airtec and CYPRES the Mighty Protector. All other gods are false.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[mathrick 2]

gowlerk

Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces. All bow to the God Airtec and CYPRES the Mighty Protector. All other gods are false.

I'm normally opposed to forum signatures, but I'm totally stealing this to make it my sig.

"Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces."

[Rstanley0312 0]

mathrick

No, it didn't offend me, it annoyed me because it's fanboy wank pretending that Cypres is the be-all end-all omniscient godsend with no flaws, and then you have the gall to claim this is about making "informed decisions" and "learning about your gear". What you wrote is the exact opposite of those things; it's bullshit that would serve to misinform and take knowledge away were any naïve fresh jumper to believe it. It has nothing to do with what I jump, because I am aware that Vigil is also a complex electronic device with embedded software subject to flaws. It happens to have the particular set of flaws I mind less, and flaws I can actually discuss and make informed decisions about, because it's not being marketed by fanboys who'd rather have me take unnecessary risk than disclose the fact their beloved Cypres is not, in fact, omniscient and infallible.

I never claimed a single thing you just wrote so being annoyed by things you made up in your head is just funny. Thanks for the name calling though chief...... defensive?

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[Rstanley0312 0]

gowlerk

Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces. All bow to the God Airtec and CYPRES the Mighty Protector. All other gods are false.

I'd say the one getting emotional is the other guy. Just read through the posts and it says a lot. Then again you take whatever chance you get to rip on products you don't like with a lot of emotion. I see you as an equal opportunity attacker.

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[verdi 2]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UWdomaTVgE

[gowlerk 1,903]

Quote

I'd say the one getting emotional is the other guy. Just read through the posts and it says a lot. Then again you take whatever chance you get to rip on products you don't like with a lot of emotion. I see you as an equal opportunity attacker. Wink

Thanks. I'm not a wingsuiter, not sure how I got into this one. I'd like you to note that I don't see any of the current AADs to be worse or better than the other. I do see differences in how the companies that market them do so.

There is a thread in the rigging forum about the new CYPRES model. Actually there are many threads there where the nuts and bolts of how these devices work get speculated about in agonizing detail.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[birdynamnam 28]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?utm_medium=email&newsletter=1.+NL+WSC&feature=youtu.be&utm_campaign=1.+NL+WSC&v=6UWdomaTVgE&utm_source=newsletter

[SethInMI 145]

birdynamnam

https://m.youtube.com/watch?utm_medium=email&newsletter=1.+NL+WSC&feature=youtu.be&utm_campaign=1.+NL+WSC&v=6UWdomaTVgE&utm_source=newsletter

Links in the above 2 posts point to the same youtube video.

Video Cliff Notes: the video is H. Cloth discussing the operation of the WS cypres device.
1. It has two modes (wingsuit and canopy)
2. It switches modes automatically.
3. When it does, an audible in the helmet sounds a 10 second long warbling tone.

That is it for details. No information on what parameters govern the switch, or how the device may be "fooled" (the reason for the audible).

It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".

[Rstanley0312 0]

gowlerk

Quote

I'd say the one getting emotional is the other guy. Just read through the posts and it says a lot. Then again you take whatever chance you get to rip on products you don't like with a lot of emotion. I see you as an equal opportunity attacker. Wink

Thanks. I'm not a wingsuiter, not sure how I got into this one. I'd like you to note that I don't see any of the current AADs to be worse or better than the other. I do see differences in how the companies that market them do so.

There is a thread in the rigging forum about the new CYPRES model. Actually there are many threads there where the nuts and bolts of how these devices work get speculated about in agonizing detail.

Just making a joke about you ripping on all AAD's in general.

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[kleggo 138]

lyosha

Cypres has a history of saying "trust us, it'll work" instead of explaining how their devices work.

LOL

Two words

Intellectual
Property.

[lyosha 46]

Fair enough. But their competitors outline how their product works, potential issues, etc. When accidents occur they provide detailed feedback.

Cypres says "just trust us" and "unit functioned as specified"(well duh...) after accidents.