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SkyHookV3

New Canopy for WS

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Hello all,
I'm up in the air on what Canopy to get to replace my Specter 170 for WS. I'm looking at the PD Strom and the ApexBase Lobo. I am getting told both are awesome of WS BUT I'm not into Base Jumping and I don't know if the Lobo is the right fit for me... Sometimes I need to come back from a Long Spot after deployment, so I'm worry the Lobo won't be able to make it back to the DZ. Also packing the lobo I'm not to sure about...

Any thoughts anyone has on this would be a great help to me.

Thanks!

Dave

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SkyHookV3

Hello all,
I'm up in the air on what Canopy to get to replace my Specter 170 for WS. I'm looking at the PD Strom and the ApexBase Lobo. I am getting told both are awesome of WS BUT I'm not into Base Jumping and I don't know if the Lobo is the right fit for me... Sometimes I need to come back from a Long Spot after deployment, so I'm worry the Lobo won't be able to make it back to the DZ. Also packing the lobo I'm not to sure about...

Any thoughts anyone has on this would be a great help to me.

Thanks!

Dave



I would hang tight a few months because I think there will be some interesting WS oriented canopies on the market later in the season.

You should include the Epicene in your list also, I have buddies that are happy with it.

On another note, if you are in a wingsuit how are you ending up coming up short of the DZ? :)
Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month.

Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com

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High traffic at my DZ, I like to deploy away from the landing area and just fly my canopy back to the landing zone. I always back it back the LZ so its never been an issue. I was thinking about the Epicene as well, but was talked out of it... If you're at CarolinaFest this year maybe we can talk about it. I hear the WS LO for CarolinaFest this year is a member of WickedWingsuits.

-Dave

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SkyHookV3

I was thinking about the Epicene as well, but was talked out of it...

what were the arguments against it ?
I am not advocating any side. I don't know the canopy.

I second the Safire2 advice though. I put around 1000 jumps on mine and love it.
scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

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http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4632068;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

not that you could not have searched for yourself...
anyway, I know of two people that jump their jfx and Xaos 21 as wingsuit-canopies and where doing just fine the last 3-500 jumps...

Epicene is for those swoopers with small rigs that would normaly need to buy another rig to comfortably jump a mattress with an appropriate WL but are now able to jump 4 sizes bigger than what would normally fit into their rigs. Other than that I don't see a reason why anyone would be interested in a f111 canopy that will not last half as long as a normal zp one and doesn't offer that much of an improvement opening and definitely not flightwise. If it were cheaper though it might be an alternative but with a pricetag similar to modern zp-7cells I just can't justify for anyone to buy this canopy.
Get a pulse if you can't navigate :|
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To absent friends

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piisfish

***I was thinking about the Epicene as well, but was talked out of it...

what were the arguments against it ?
One of the issues I might think of is size of the packed canopy. If he is jumping a 170 now, and the Epicene packs quite small, the canopy would have to be huge to fit properly in the container.

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verticalflyer

Making decisions on others recommendations is not great. Canopys arent cheap so get hold of a demo and fly ot to see which suits you, rather than asking everyone elses opinion which will vary massively.



Good Idea, I reached out to ApexBase and PD (and another vender)to setup demos.

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johnmatrix

I jump a Sabre2 and am happy with that.
By all accounts the Storm is a great canopy.

I would not go for the 'latest thing' unless I had a good reason. Get a nice cheap second hand canopy and spend the rest of your money jumping. :)



Getting a low bulk WS canopy + separate smaller size canopy for non-WS jumps is more economical than having two rigs, not to mention potentially more aerodynamic ;)

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I think I missed why youre getting rid of your original canopy. Spectre is a pretty good wingsuit canopy. If you want more exciting canopy, sabre, safire, what have you. Stay away from elipticals. If you want a bigger canopy, a bigger episcene or a lightweight base canopy is nice and will fit in your current rig, but youll probably spend at least $2000 on one of those. If you dont plan on base jumping, im not sure why youre considering a base specific canopy.

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I have a PD Storm. I recommend it if you are looking for a skydiving canopy. Get it properly sized. You can pro-pack it, it is forgiving to packing mistakes, and it will give you a smooth opening every time. It is a 7-cell canopy with a steep glide rate, very similar to the characteristics of a BASE canopy. If you decide to do BASE at a later time, I expect that you would be able to transition from the Storm to a BASE rig with no issues.

I am unexperienced (32 jumps), and have not flown a wing suit yet. But I can compare the Storm to the Spectre and the Sabre2 from a skydiving perspective - with 1.1 loading. I have jumped both before I bought my canopy. If you plan to load the canopies more heavily, your results may vary.

Getting a BASE canopy with a mild loading would not be optimal for skydiving. It would give you a slower, less maneuverable, more boring ride. I think that trade-off is only worthwhile if you primarily do BASE, and skydive mostly to just stay current. BASE canopies also open a lot harder. It would be quite a change from a Spectre.

Compared to the Spectre, the Storm is a challenge. It is a lot more responsive, so the canopy ride is more enjoyable. The glide is significantly faster, and noticeably steeper. The canopy is very responsive, all the way to the ground. The Spectre has a weak flare that is hard to screw up. In comparison, the Storm has a stronger flare, and you do need to get it right to get a clean landing. The ground comes at you real quick due to the steep glide rate. However, as soon as you perform a half flare, the glide will predictably flatten out.

If you flare unevenly, or get cross winds, it WILL tip to the side, so you need to pay attention. If you get a minimal flare PLF landing on the Spectre, you will likely walk away. On the Storm, you will likely get banged up pretty bad. You can definitely perform a PLF landing at half flare, however. In short, if you like the Spectre, but find it a bit slow and boring, the Storm will definitely spice up your canopy ride.

The Sabre2 feels more similar to the Storm than the Spectre. The speed is similar (maybe Sabre2 is a little faster), but the Sabre2 has a much flatter glide rate. You can definitely fly further with the Sabre2. The Storm seemed almost as responsive to me as the Sabre2. At higher loading, the difference may be more pronounced. They both react very quickly to input. The flare on the Sabre2 is even stronger than the Storm, you can easily gain altitude if you flare hard. The stall on the Sabre2 is worse, however.

The big downside of the Sabre2 is the opening. The Sabre2 opens harder, and I got end cell closures on it more often than not. If you jump in any kind of wind, you might need to pump the brakes just to get the canopy properly inflated. The Storm will give you more predictable openings and a bit more time to transition. For this reason, I would much prefer the Storm for wing suit flying compared to the Sabre2.

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hjumper33

I think I missed why youre getting rid of your original canopy. Spectre is a pretty good wingsuit canopy. If you want more exciting canopy, sabre, safire, what have you. Stay away from elipticals. If you want a bigger canopy, a bigger episcene or a lightweight base canopy is nice and will fit in your current rig, but youll probably spend at least $2000 on one of those. If you dont plan on base jumping, im not sure why youre considering a base specific canopy.



Just looking for a new canopy to fly. I have around 500 jumps on my Specter, just looking to fly something else now.

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Pobrause

doesn't offer that much of an improvement opening and definitely not flightwise



I agree it isn't fun to fly. But the openings are perfect. Every single one is smooth as butter and never more than 20 degrees off heading. They remind me that I made the right decision switching from a Storm.

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q1w2e3_89

***doesn't offer that much of an improvement opening and definitely not flightwise



I agree it isn't fun to fly. But the openings are perfect. Every single one is smooth as butter and never more than 20 degrees off heading. They remind me that I made the right decision switching from a Storm.

Have you ever tried a Pulse? I really would be interested in your opinion about a comparison between those two.
I actually need to jump one myself so that I can give better recommendations to newer jumpers :)
-------------------------------------------------------

To absent friends

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If you're going to look at Pulse please take a look at Prime from Fluid Wings. It's a new canopy company and they build skydiving and paragliding canopies. I demoed the Prime is a great canopy, to me it flew better than Pulse and had a better bottom end. I understand it may be difficult to get a demo in Germany, but reach out to them and ask.
http://fluidwings.com/prime-wing-information/
bit about the company and their philosophy

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Stryker
Quote

I am unexperienced (32 jumps), and have not flown a wing suit yet. But I can compare the Storm to the Spectre and the Sabre2 from a skydiving perspective - with 1.1 loading. I have jumped both before I bought my canopy. If you plan to load the canopies more heavily, your results may vary.



This is why I advise you demo them and speak to someone you can actually see and trust. Claiming you can compare 3 different canopy's when you have a grand total of 32 jumps which taking AFF and consols out would equate to 14 jumps is ridiculous. If you have 200+ jumps on each then you might be able to give a decent comparison but 14 really, unless your student kit happened to be a very Spectre or S2 or Storm which I doubt, so a massive 32 jumps experience.
Dont just talk about it, Do it!

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