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EWRookie

Squirrel vs PF

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Hi community,

I am hoping to get some good discussion on the differences between squirrel and phoenix fly Wingsuits. I've done some searching but still would like more information and first hand experience.

I am torn between the two manufactures and want to make sure I choose the right one. This will be my first wingsuit so my knowledge is zero.

I'm currently looking at the Squirrel Hatch or the PF Phantom Edge.

I am looking for constructive information regarding quality, build, performance.

If you say one is better than the other please tell explain why. Materials used? design?

Thanks again!

Ps: I have read: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3140653;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

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People who buyed an Hatch probably never jumped a Phantom and vice versa. Some people will have better feeling in one and other in the other. Some are great immediatly but don t have a lot to offer after that and other take time to give all they have to give (but can be better after that). You ll probably sell it before flying it at his best so... And in fact it s almost impossible to try each ws. Nobody can tell for you. So buy the one you like the most.

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I'm not so concerned with the model of wingsuit as i am the build quality / design of the manufactures...

if i buy a squirrel suit am i going to be pissed i didn't get a PF? Any huge pitfalls?

are the materials comparable?

are there big differences in stitching that make one more durable than the other?

do the ergonomics of one manufacture/suit seem to make deployments easier?

does the inlet placement seem to inflate better on the PF or Squirrel?

Are the wing rib layouts identical or does one feel more solid during flight than the other...

these type of questions / answers are what im looking for...

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Materials and build quality are the same. Both are top notch.

Standard Squirrel suits seem more durable to me than the standard PF which have some Balloon ZP components. If you get a PF suit in all Parapack though (which I recommend) they are equally durable and will last forever if taken care of properly.

Deployment shouldn't be an issue in either a Hatch or a Phantom/Shadow. And for a keep-forever suit I'd actually recommend the Shadow since it's a better acro suit than the Phantom.

Squirrel will inflate harder across the size range. In general the Squirrel suits seem to favor heavy pressurization and its associated benefits. PF favors slightly less pressurization and its associated benefits. Both pressurize well given their respective styles.

Squirrel will feel more "solid" due to increased pressurization. There are pros and cons to this. Some people prefer it, others don't.

Pick one and fly it. You'll be happy either way and become a huge advocate of whichever brand you settle on. I'm a PF guy myself.
Apex BASE
#1816

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Head for the hills!

In all actuality, both the manufacturers you mention make a quality suit that would be a great first suit for you. You will run into a myriad of opinions and customer experiences for both manufacturers. From my most recent experiences ordering my Snatch's from Squirrel and my Havok Carve from Phoenix Fly, both have very good customer service and the lead time for my Phoenix Fly suit was within a month. I would recommend you take a wingsuit FJC if you can or at least find a wingsuit mentor to help you get started. You might consider giving Wicked Wingsuits a call and seeing if they might have suits to fit you that you could rent to tryout.

Blue Skies and welcome to the flock!

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One thing to be aware of is Squirrel (and Tony) suits have zips that are continuous from throat to foot, while PF suits have two separate zippers that do not meet. This makes the PF suits a bit trickier to take on and off, and is the main reason why I've never bought one. It may not bother some, but for some reason I can't get over it.

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I don't have the exact suit comparison you are looking for, but hopefully close enough. I started with a Phantom3 for my first 40 jumps, and then put another 50 on a Squirrel Swift. I am sticking with Squirrel for a few reasons, and mine could be the complete opposite of someone else. I like the little things that are on Squirrel suits (magnets instead of snaps on the booties, one continuous zipper in the front, no thumb loops, no need for arm wing cutaway, etc...). I can reach the toggles in my Swift but just barely the risers on the P3.

I like how quickly Squirrel responds to emails and Facebook messages. I've sent a few PF emails that never had replies. But I hear PF is a lot better about that now, so might not be relevant anymore.

Both are such good manufacturers that you can't go wrong, more than likely the suit you first start jumping is going to be "the greatest suit ever." -even though my experience was different...

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EWRookie

I'm not so concerned with the model of wingsuit as i am the build quality / design of the manufactures...



In that case, don't worry about it. They're both awesome, and both companies have absolute top notch build quality. Like the French guy said, no-one can tell you which suit you'll enjoy flying more, so just go with the one you think looks best.

One thing though, your questions make it sound like you want to keep this suit for a long time, so maybe you should be thinking about the Swift instead of the Hatch on the Squirrel side of things.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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Yes i was considering the Swift as well. I want a suit that will be good to learn on but also have the longevity to be fun after i have learned the basics.

Since this will be my first time flying a wingsuit i was worried that the swift might be to much suit?

it says on the page "The Swift is designed for talented beginners and experienced pilots of all abilities. "

Does this mean suitable for FFC / FJC or suitable for beginners that have already jumped a wingsuit a few times.?

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EWRookie


Since this will be my first time flying a wingsuit i was worried that the swift might be to much suit?

it says on the page "The Swift is designed for talented beginners and experienced pilots of all abilities. "

Does this mean suitable for FFC / FJC or suitable for beginners that have already jumped a wingsuit a few times.?



That was the subject a particularly weird thread. Comments were made that Swift might be a bit much for most FFCs. There was much arguing and then eventually the Hatch came out.

I bought a P3 as my first wingsuit and still love flying it over 100 jumps later. I doubt I'll ever sell it. I'm looking at either a Havok Carve or Funk as an upsize.

Talk with who you are doing your FFC with.

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EWRookie


Since this will be my first time flying a wingsuit i was worried that the swift might be to much suit?



I wouldn't see it as being a problem, assuming you're properly prepared for wing suiting. If you're worried about it then do a few jumps on a 2 piece suit like a prodigy or even a tracking suit first, should be a lot easier to find a demo that fits well enough to use than a 1 piece.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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EWRookie

Yes i was considering the Swift as well. I want a suit that will be good to learn on but also have the longevity to be fun after i have learned the basics.

Since this will be my first time flying a wingsuit i was worried that the swift might be to much suit?

it says on the page "The Swift is designed for talented beginners and experienced pilots of all abilities. "

Does this mean suitable for FFC / FJC or suitable for beginners that have already jumped a wingsuit a few times.?



I think you're far more likely to keep a Hatch or Shadow/Phantom forever than a Swift. From what I've seen, nobody keeps them. The Hatch/Shadow/Phantom you can always keep for serious acro, but the Swift isn't quite as good in that sense.

You're much more likely to keep a Hatch/Funk or Shadow/Havok combo than a Swift/Funk combo.
Apex BASE
#1816

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Bluhdow



I think you're far more likely to keep a Hatch or Shadow/Phantom forever than a Swift. From what I've seen, nobody keeps them. The Hatch/Shadow/Phantom you can always keep for serious acro, but the Swift isn't quite as good in that sense.

You're much more likely to keep a Hatch/Funk or Shadow/Havok combo than a Swift/Funk combo.



Sorry, but I could not disagree more :) Swift is an awesome suit, which you can keep forever and still will be able to find something new.

As for comparison. As everybody said already the quality in both companies is pretty much the same. With PF Phantoms I've seen few people having problems with the zippers - they broke. I also have had problems that I couldn't unzip the arm wings which even after sending to PF factory to fix was not working. But maybe it's now fixed with Phantom Edge.

I have flown Phantom 2 and Havoc Carve from PF, and then Swift, Funk and Aura from Squirrel. This of course comes down to personal preference, but for some reason from the time I put on my suit till the time I get it off, Squirrel suits make me smile and happy. They are much more fun and 'effortless' to fly.

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EWRookie

unfortunately, my size is a pain in the ass to demo suits or borrow...

I'm 6'4"-6'5" 210lbs... tall as shit so nothing off the shelf will fit...



I'm taller than you and was able to use a tonysuit i-bird that wasn't mine. Worth a shot, honestly.

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Against the odds, you've had a lot of good advice. :)

Myself, I have only ever flown PF, so you'd be better off getting advice from a few people who have flown both. However,

When I ordered my first wingsuit I wasn't able to demo any. Based on much reading of this forum and other people's advice, I ordered a brand new Phantom 2 and have no regrets.
I would recommend a Phantom to anyone. I will never sell mine, have done over 200 jumps on it so far, and despite owning a bigger suit I still do 95% of my wingsuit jumps with it.

Demo if you can but the main thing is that it's appropriately sized. You'll get a really well made product from any of the major manufacturers. So don't stress, just get something and start flying. :)

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Bluhdow



I think you're far more likely to keep a Hatch or Shadow/Phantom forever than a Swift. From what I've seen, nobody keeps them. The Hatch/Shadow/Phantom you can always keep for serious acro, but the Swift isn't quite as good in that sense.

You're much more likely to keep a Hatch/Funk or Shadow/Havok combo than a Swift/Funk combo.



I'm not sure this makes sense to me. The Swift is a very capable, intermediate type suit with lots of range. I see quite a few people that are holding onto their Swift and fly it often. Many that buy a Swift (or similar capability wingsuit) and then put it up for sale quickly, appear only to be in a big hurry to "upsize".

Any of the wingsuits mentioned here would be a good choice for your first. As always, try before you buy if possible...

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Most people can't afford 4-5 suits. I myself have 3, and I feel that's more than most. Most wingsuit flyers I know have only one or two suits.

My thought process is as such (assuming appropriate experience):

1. I can only afford one suit = Havok/Funk. Easy decision.

2. I can afford two suits = Havok/Funk + One larger suit (Venom/Aura/etc.). Now you can do flocking, acro and play with the big boys.

3. I can afford three suits = Havok/Funk + One larger suit + One small suit (Shadow/Hatch). Now you can flock, do acro, play with the big boys, and use the small suits to learn head down, chase tracking suits, jump with smaller suits more easily, etc.

This, to me, is the most effective way to have the widest range of flying potential with a given budget. I have three suits:

1. Havok
2. Venom Power
3. Shadow

Purchased in that order per that methodology (after I had sufficient time/experience to fly and test each of them).

Now, if you have more resources available I would expand it:

4. I can afford 4 suits = Havok/Funk + One larger suit + One smaller suit + One fast suit (Colugo 2/Scorpion/etc.).

5. I am wealthy = Just buy them all.

I don't see the value of a Swift in a keep-forever strategy until you climb pretty far up the income scale. It just seems to fill too small of a hole between the Hatch and Funk.

It is however, a great temporary suit if you are new and lack the experience required for my approach:

1. Buy a Hatch.
2. Keep Hatch and upsize to Swift.
3. Sell Swift and upsize to Funk.
4. Keep Hatch and Funk forever.

To each his own, but that was my way of trying to get the most out of my dollars and the existing suit options.
Apex BASE
#1816

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Good post.

My opinion is that Swift is a better choice if you plan to focus more on flocking than acro, as it provides this little extra range that can help you get back on the level with others when needed.

And then if you're more into acro than flocking take a Hatch



And then if you're good, it doesn't matter anymore...

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