Vampire question

[hjumper33 0]

This is not intended to be any kind of brand war discussion, just something that came up the other day and there was a lot of debate about.

What is the purpose of the hole in the leg wing/deflector area in vampires. Seems to be unique to this specific suit and just wondering.

Lets just set a standard of no comparisons to other suits or companies in this thread, just would like to know the history of this design element.

[skow 6]

hjumper33

This is not intended to be any kind of brand war discussion, just something that came up the other day and there was a lot of debate about.

Lets just set a standard of no comparisons to other suits or companies in this thread, just would like to know the history of this design element.

seems like lately this should be added to every post as a disclaimer :)

[maretus 0]

hjumper33

What is the purpose of the hole in the leg wing/deflector area in vampires. Seems to be unique to this specific suit and just wondering.

In the introduction video (around 3:08 on the vid) of the V5 and the Viper, Edo mentions that the hole "adds lateral stability of the suit".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkYXqCgJV_E

Add here a totally made up fact on your preferred suit or totally irrational claim on the performance/safety/lead time of suit you are not flying for brand war purposes.

http://www.ufufreefly.com

[mccordia 74]

For someone offering a lot of harsh, negative and single brand oriented advise you seem quite oblivious at times to basic info about skills, aerodynamics and design. But seeing as you asked:

The legwing hole creates more airflow over the legwing, meaning more control (showcased by the widely known higher agility if the vampire series).
It also allows for a bit of airflow, in terms of pull/pilotchute extraction, and the raised deflector creates a smooth airflow over the tail end of the rig.
The biggest function is akin to the hole in a round canopy, creating more lateral stability as the suit doesnt 'cup' air. Meaning in sharp banking turn the suit behaves the same as in straight flight, sharp as a knife (where other big suits used in skydiving and base have several reported non-fatal but scary incidents, due to suits flipping onto backs related to inverted sleeve/leading edge and/or general stability problems).

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[hjumper33 0]

If the the hole is there to improve performance, then why not do it for every suit? which was one of the questions raised in the discussion I was having with a friend. The new venom does not have this feature, but the viper did. Is there a reason some suits feature this design and others do not? I cant recall if the stealth/older venom had this.

Have to keep my mind active during these night shifts somehow.

[maretus 0]

hjumper33

I cant recall if the stealth/older venom had this.

Doesn´t look like the older venom had it either : http://www.basejumper.com/images/classifieds/assets/8/18638-largest_Vente_Venom.jpg

hjumper33

Have to keep my mind active during these night shifts somehow.

Maybe couple of cardiovascular bypasses or some other hard core surgery would do the trick? Definitely more productive than arguing over some bullshit at dorkzone with other retards. :D

http://www.ufufreefly.com

[hjumper33 0]

Haha markus, I wish a had some excitement. Just same old abdominal pains and such. Just trying to understand aerodynamics better I suppose.

[robibird 3]

Doctors in 'Murica are known as a well organized part of community who back each other up, protect each other. That same group are known to be prone to corruption by the pharmacy industry as well. Sadly to often they become very biased and subjective. Such attitude ruins their attitude and their judging skills with time too.
Hjumper, must be that attitude from your work now transfers to this forum. Underestimating people who read this forum.
I know that in order to turn you into 'my friend' all I need to do is give you a free suit, canopy, container etc. but sadly this is not my style.

Disclaimer: this post has a disclaimer and a smiley, so its ok.

Robert Pecnik
robert@phoenix-fly.com
www.phoenix-fly.com

[vesatoro 0]

If I remember right, the hole was already there in the Skyflyer series of suits. Not 100% sure though.

"Fear is the path to the Dark side"
(Master Yoda)

[hjumper33 0]

Im not even sure how to respond to the medical part of that so ill just leave it alone.

Robi, id be your friend and you dont even have to give me a single thing, and I love your use of 'Murica. Ive said in the past, Ive loved every PF suit ive owned. Ive had a V2-4, p2, and still have a tracking suit. All that out of the way, now that I know you are reading this I seriously just want to know...

If the hole in the suit is good, then why not put holes in all of them? The viper had a hole, but the new venom which is touted for its handling in the big suit class has no hole. Jarno is totally correct that I have a Physics 101 level of understanding of aerodynamics, so please please please tell me, why intermittent holeage? My night shift is over now and I dont work for a while, so Ill check this in a day or so. I would LOVE to have an answer!

[hjumper33 0]

Ah I just realized you think I somehow get paid or get free stuff from squirrel if I am taking your out dated pharmaceutical reference correct. Pharm companies long ago realized they couldnt buy doctors, so they advertise straight to consumers and get people to demand certain meds from their docs because they saw it on tv, a very smart idea. But seriously, just want to know about the holes.

[maretus 0]

hjumper33

But seriously, just want to know about the holes.

I´ll try to give you scientific reference to your interest towards but holes. (Hahahaha...)

No, seriously. I don't know how this translates to WS´s and Robi for sure is the person to comment on that but there is an interesting article written here http://www.hindawi.com/journals/isrn/2013/320563/ which has some quite detailed stuff about stability of a round parachute with different sized apex vent.

There is a lot of science in that which I don´t understand but one of the conclusions say : Finally, the experiments show that the parachute begins oscillating when the Reynolds numbers exceed a certain critical value, which is different for different vent ratios. This would imply that every case has a stable and unstable region. As the vent ratio increases, the oscillations would occur at higher Reynolds numbers..

Like I said, I don´t know how well this relates into WS´s as the aerodynamics of a WS guess differs quite dramatically from the one of a round parachute.

http://www.ufufreefly.com

[The111 1]

vesatoro

If I remember right, the hole was already there in the Skyflyer series of suits. Not 100% sure though.

Yes S1 and S3 had it.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[mccordia 74]

Back to 'basic knowledge'

Hint: backflying

The deflector design doesnt allow for backflying with inflation. The V-series being more aimed at agility and performance, backflying/inlets werent included and the more complex deflector design is used which robert initially created with the Skyflyer 1/3.

Perhaps actually try flying a vampire race or any of the other PF suits/features you spend so much time bashing online. Of course, always with the proper disclaimers. But who knows, you might even like it.

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[alygator 2]

For long there re no really other wingsuit in the Vampire categorie. Now the Intrudair Shark2, Tonysuit Scorpion and the Squirrel Colugo2 enter in this "little big wingsuit categorie" but none match, until proof, the agility and "knife" feeling of the Vampire. Why? Maybe this hole(with some other stuff). Why not in other brand? Maybe it ll be definitly to seeing "copy". Why not on the other PF suit? Maybe because this "more agility" cost a little high end gliding and other PF wingsuit aim other goal. Jarno wrote it somewhere else, VRace more agility, little less glide; VPower more glide, little less agility. And why Phantom or Ghost series don t have it? Just because it s not really good for backflying

[skow 6]

hjumper33

Ive loved every PF suit ive owned. Ive had a V2-4, p2, and still have a tracking suit.

mccordia

Perhaps actually try flying a vampire race or any of the other PF suits/features you spend so much time bashing online.

If that's bashing I don't want to know how flattering looks like :)

But back to the topic..

mccordia

The legwing hole creates more airflow over the legwing, meaning more control (showcased by the widely known higher agility if the vampire series).

Do you mean that the air through the hole flows between the deflector and the legwing?

[alygator 2]

Gorilla Worx use it too... With a bigger hole...

[Bluhdow 31]

alygator

For long there re no really other wingsuit in the Vampire categorie. Now the Intrudair Shark2, Tonysuit Scorpion and the Squirrel Colugo2 enter in this "little big wingsuit categorie" but none match, until proof, the agility and "knife" feeling of the Vampire. Why? Maybe this hole(with some other stuff). Why not in other brand? Maybe it ll be definitly to seeing "copy". Why not on the other PF suit? Maybe because this "more agility" cost a little high end gliding and other PF wingsuit aim other goal. Jarno wrote it somewhere else, VRace more agility, little less glide; VPower more glide, little less agility. And why Phantom or Ghost series don t have it? Just because it s not really good for backflying

This is how I've always understood (and I use that term loosely) the function of the hole.

It allows sharp, banking turns without sliding down the "hill." Some suits feel like you're floating on top of a beach ball and could slide off to either side. The Vampire, to me, flies as comfortably and with as much agility as a Phantom (on its belly). I suspect that the hole has something to do with this.

The drawback, though, is reduced glide. While bleeding air through the center of the wing helps with stability it's not great for max glide.

So to the point made above, the V-Race and V-Power seem similar in size. One just has a hole (to improve agility) and the other doesn't (to improve glide).

Maybe Robi or Jarno could chime in to confirm/discard my thoughts here.

*Edited for grammar, twice.

Apex BASE
#1816

[michalm21 0]

mccordia

Perhaps actually try flying a vampire race or any of the other PF suits/features you spend so much time bashing online. Of course, always with the proper disclaimers. But who knows, you might even like it.

I don't care about disclaimers so here it comes:

Seriously dude? He specifically came here with questions and states he doesn't want a brand war yet in every post you make defensive reference to his bashing. Maybe save it for another thread?

Overall, you always push PF, mostly in defensive tones but it's understandable you are sponsored/paid/work for PF.
Everyone who doesn't agree with PF is obviously a hater in your mind.
Maybe lay off the PF jizz, and go back to civilized replies without tongues in cheek and defensive tones?

Now to the topic, V is a fun suit to fly and I actually like the 'hole'. Sure doesn't have as much power with it as it would without it but man it's a fun suit to fly.
Thanks ya'll for the insights into the design.
Any idea why Robi decided not to pursue the same design in the arm wings? Sometime around 2010-2011 I asked him about next generation of Vampires and he mentioned something revolutionary like this... with smaller surface areas...

[maretus 0]

mccordia

Perhaps actually try flying a vampire race or any of the other PF suits/features you spend so much time bashing online. Of course, always with the proper disclaimers. But who knows, you might even like it.

Yeah... I mean seriously Jarno... The good doctor has been flying Vampires off the cliff way before you have so maybe just drop down the sucker punch act a bit and show some professionalism. We all know the guy flies those Squirrels nowadays, probably because
a) the guy who makes them and most of his test pilots are his good friends and
b) he probably likes the f*cking suits!

But even though he is teamed up with the evil empire, the guy had a legit question. So maybe just suck it up and give a legit answer. Without the small print and mandatory punch to the groin.

http://www.ufufreefly.com

[mccordia 74]

There was a fully legit answer in there, regardles of him liking 'the sucker punch' or not.

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[Mikki_ZH 0]

all this angry and mean discussion on the internet makes me a bit sad
why can't we all just be friends (on the internet) and love each others.

I think I will go out an make a jump in my Vampire Race, that will cheer up my day
Happy jumping weekend to everybody, over and out

Michi (#1068)
hsbc/gba/sba
www.swissbaseassociation.ch
www.michibase.ch

[uberchris 0]

yes! this above!!!
if were going to sit around and bash things, lets travel to alaska and bash seal cubs, not each other!

actually fuck it, lets just all go jump

gravity brings me down.........

[Jbag 0]

Birdman has the best suits around. you just dont know it yet.

IHYD

[ifell 0]

Jbag

Birdman has the best suits around. you just dont know it yet.

Is it because of the "hole" they have in the leg wing?