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EOCS

Wingsuit Canopy Size

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Hi,.

The questions i ask are: When do canopy line lengths get dangerously short? and Is a 120sqft canopy considered reasonable?

I currently am jumping a PF Shadow using a Sabre1 120 as a main. Im considering a pilot 124 as a main after the Sabre however on checking the line trims the pilot has 8cm shorter line length. This is a change from 278cm to 270cm.

According to the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwX33oCHP9sthe canopy that was pulled into the WS burble was a spectre 97 which has a line length of 243 so a 27cm difference to the pilot. Alot is said in the forum post http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3845529;search_string=sucked;#3845529about that jump and the deployment position ect, but to leave out as many variables as possible i ask the questions above.

Thanks for the info!

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I'm jumping a Sabre1 120 myself. 34" PC to go with really big suits. Wouldn't jump anything much smaller for that reason, but the 120 works great. Never any issues.
-B
Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

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I'm on a Sabre2 135 (1.3 w/l) with a 9' bridle and a 28" PC. Never had any issues with a Phantom, Havok, or Vampire 4.

I've got a Venom Power on order right now...any changes you think I should be looking at? Maybe a larger PC...but keep in mind that I also freefly this setup regularly.

Thanks!
Apex BASE
#1816

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If you haven't got a pocket slider, add one. Both Sabes I've owned came with user-made slider pockets on them. The 135, the pocket was poorly made and tearing. I cut it off since I only meant to ever use the canopy for wingsuit. Never took that canopy to terminal.
My 120 also has a slider pocket but it was well made so I left it in place to see how it does. Turned out it has no effect on wingsuit openings... moving slowly, the pocket just doesn't have enough airflow to do anything.

Eventually a friend talked me out of my suit for the first time in years to do a little freefall and a high pull at 10-ish. Was a bit concerned about deploying a wingsuit packjob set for a 400-foot opening at wingsuit speeds. No nose treatments no stuffing or rolling of anything except 3 twists of the tail prior to laying down the canopy during pack just to keep the slider tight against the stops.

I was ready for a neckbreaker but was pleasantly surprised- at higher speeds, I.E. normal belly terminal, the slider pocket did its' job very well, I got linestretch, a good 3-4 second snivel and a comfy staged opening.

So, best possible combo. It's good for freefall and at higher speeds the slider pocket's got teeth and retards the opening nicely, and at lower speeds the pocket might as well not even be there and I get solid 400-foot "Whump" openings every time. The slower I go the faster it opens.

I haven't taken my current 34" pc to terminal yet and am not sure if I want to. It'll certainly make the initial snatch a good deal sharper, after that, not certain what to expect from it. But if you're going to a megasuit such as a Venom you're probably really going to need/want a bigger PC/bridle.

My Apache XRW/Rebel1 is about equivalent to the Venom, sizewise. When I got it, I was running an 8.5 foot bridle and 28" ZP PC which had always been fine with suits up to and including S-Bird. With an Apache sized burble it was -NOT- adequate and even shut down the suit would suck the PC back and make it land on my tail and do nothing. After manually kicking the PC out of the burble a bunch of times I went to a 10-foot 28" and everything was fine for the next several years. Then I added a Rebel2 and an experimental research suit I call the Albatross Project (hyperexpanded redesign of the R2 Tony built me from some drawings I sent him over the winter) to my fleet and both of those suits brought back the suckback effect and required a 12 foot 34" ZP PC to get reliable openings.

If you're going to freefly a setup meant to go with a megasuit you might want to keep more than one PC handy and switch em out before freeflying. Your alternative is stick with what you've got and work up a really vigilant prolonged-shutdown-and-drop pull sequence to make sure you've got the necessary airspeed to compensate for the lack of a larger PC. You're trying to get gear to work well while pushing opposite ends of the envelope with the same configuration and I think you're likely to encounter issues with one end or the other.

I could have continued to make the older smaller 28" PC work with the really big suits as long as I folded wings and waited long enough but the necessary altitude consumption and prolonged drop at pull time were a pain in the ass... I went with the bigger PCs because I didn't want to have to do such a long ritualized speedup-deploy every time I jump the big suits.
Even the 34" is barely adequate with the Albatross and I still have to do a careful speedup with that one, but I've got a 36", a 38", and a 40" on 12 foot bridles already built and waiting for when I decide I need them.
-B
Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

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Thanks Lurch. Appreciate the feedback!

"Your alternative is stick with what you've got and work up a really vigilant prolonged-shutdown-and-drop pull sequence to make sure you've got the necessary airspeed to compensate for the lack of a larger PC."

Wouldn't a pitch from full flight also generate higher airspeed to compensate for the smaller PC? Though I suppose higher airspeed (in full flight) would also create a larger burble...not sure how those two balance out.

On the pocket slider...is that in reference to a Sabre1? I've got a Sabre2...never had any issues with hard openings.

Thanks again!
Apex BASE
#1816

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Quote

Wouldn't a pitch from full flight also generate higher airspeed to compensate for the smaller PC? Though I suppose higher airspeed (in full flight) would also create a larger burble...not sure how those two balance out.



I jump Cobalt 135, X-Wing with 24” ZP kill-line PC on regular bridle.
I pitch from full, but relaxed flight. That yealds smaller burble than pulling from classic opening position. Do you math and calculate your relative wind speed. Let me give you a hint, it's subterminal.

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Bluhdow



Wouldn't a pitch from full flight also generate higher airspeed to compensate for the smaller PC? Though I suppose higher airspeed (in full flight) would also create a larger burble...not sure how those two balance out.



Burble has less to do with airspeed and more to do with aerodynamics. If you dirty up your flight to slow down before pitching than you are dragging more air and creating a larger burble for your PC to get stuck in than if you would pitch from a flying position and THEN get dirty to slow down and swing through your opening.
Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.

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Thanks, that makes sense to me. It's also my current technique...pull from full flight then close wings after PC extraction. I think this should work fine for the new suit as well. If it ever arrives. PF should look to Squirrel as an example for how to communicate, market, and stay true to lead times. I love the suits but damn...
Apex BASE
#1816

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Been jumping these now for over 70 jumps. Really happy with this canopy. Great openings and flys awesome. even in mega line twist situations it stays square and does not dive too much and i have mine loaded flying a 119 with an exit weight of 210.


http://www.dropzone.com/classifieds/Detailed/Main_Canopies/New_Icarus_Omni_Wingsuit_Canopy__165371.html

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