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bum357

does deploying a saber 1 while wingsuiting take the bite out of the opening?

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Sorry...I tried to do a search...but didnt find anything definative...I was wondering if the saber 1 would open softer due to the fact that your not moving at terminal velocity...also on a side note would a canopy know for its snivel like a pilot take even longer to open if used for wingsuiting...thx

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bum357

Sorry...I tried to do a search...but didnt find anything definative...I was wondering if the saber 1 would open softer due to the fact that your not moving at terminal velocity...also on a side note would a canopy know for its snivel like a pilot take even longer to open if used for wingsuiting...thx



I jump a fairly lightly loaded Pilot. It snivels only if I pack it to snivel. It normally opens in 400-500 feet. It does not seem to matter much if I am on a wingsuit jump.
Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

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dthames

***Sorry...I tried to do a search...but didnt find anything definative...I was wondering if the saber 1 would open softer due to the fact that your not moving at terminal velocity...also on a side note would a canopy know for its snivel like a pilot take even longer to open if used for wingsuiting...thx



I jump a fairly lightly loaded Pilot. It snivels only if I pack it to snivel. It normally opens in 400-500 feet. It does not seem to matter much if I am on a wingsuit jump.

how do you pack it not to snivel?
BASE 1519

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bum357

Sorry...I tried to do a search...but didnt find anything definative...I was wondering if the saber 1 would open softer due to the fact that your not moving at terminal velocity...also on a side note would a canopy know for its snivel like a pilot take even longer to open if used for wingsuiting...thx



Depends on the wingsuit and your deployment style. Wingsuit openings can be much softer than normal freefall, but they can also feel harder if you let yourself get whipped. But lots of people love Sabre1's for WS because they open quick which in general is more reliable and on heading.
www.WingsuitPhotos.com

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bum357

Sorry...I tried to do a search...but didnt find anything definative...I was wondering if the saber 1 would open softer due to the fact that your not moving at terminal velocity... also on a side note would a canopy know for its snivel like a pilot take even longer to open if used for wingsuiting...thx



A lot of the deployment characteristics may depend on how you are deploying. If you are deploying in full flight then your velocity is roughly(ish) the same as a belly jump, the vector is just pointed forward and down instead of straight down. You can slow your velocity way down if you stall the suit or collapse your wings before you pitch. You can definitely get a slammer opening on a WS if you are hauling a$$ when you pitch.

I have jumped a few different canopies with a WS, including the SA1 and Pilot, and I think things like how you deploy and PC size have a bigger impact on opening time than the canopy itself.

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A good friend of mine will only jump a Sabre 1 for some reason. WS, freefly, etc. He has no issues with openings after 900 skydives, about 400 of them wingsuit with two different Sabre 1 canopies. He did have a slightly larger slider installed both times though, which is an important side note.

They are good WS canopies and can be picked up pretty cheaply. As mentioned above, I think your PC and slider selection will have more of an impact on the openings.
Apex BASE
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wasatchrider

******Sorry...I tried to do a search...but didnt find anything definative...I was wondering if the saber 1 would open softer due to the fact that your not moving at terminal velocity...also on a side note would a canopy know for its snivel like a pilot take even longer to open if used for wingsuiting...thx



I jump a fairly lightly loaded Pilot. It snivels only if I pack it to snivel. It normally opens in 400-500 feet. It does not seem to matter much if I am on a wingsuit jump.

how do you pack it not to snivel?

I am not a really neat nor picky packer. I do use a reverse S fold to put it in the bag. I have the nose between my knees and after I release it, tuck the stabilizer in, and quarter the slider, I look at the nose and make sure it has not been pushed in. I try not to push it in or to pull it out. I try to keep it in a neutral position. Once in a while it will still snivel but not often.

My normal deployment is all folded up, with a vertical speed of 50-70 MPH. I have found that it benifits me to get the hacky in hand, double check that my legs are tightly together and bent at the knees, before I pitch. By the time I pitch, I am starting to pick up some vertical speed and the openings are not much different than a belly jump.
Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

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bum357

So flaring first to dump speed then collapsing wings would be the best way to get a saber1 to open softly...(also possibly an addition of a larger or domed slider)...thx for the replys guys



I'd say definitely get a larger/domed/pocket slider, it's cheap insurance against a slammer. You may also want to get an extended bridle and a larger PC.

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Been jumping nothing but old Sabre 1's for wingsuit for about 7 or 8 years.
Fallrate gets low enough, Sabre 2's take way too long to open. Sabre 1's open cleanly regardless of fallrate.
They can be reliable.
When I first got one I had the line stows wrong. Got twisted 2-3 out of every 5 jumps. Eventually had to cut it away. The one cutaway I've had in over 2500 wingsuit jumps. Finally learned to tune the packjob with small line stows to minimize snatch forces and maximize unstowed line, and maybe 1/3 of the lineset in the bottom of the container as unstowed line for bag acceleration management. Twist rate went from 2 or 3 of 5 to 0/1000.

I've had 100% reliability for the years since. 400 foot openings like clockwork unless I screw up the throw and suckback or burble the PC which can produce the odd occasional 6-700 foot opening. Using a 12 foot bridle, 34 inch PC for extremely large suits.
No twists. Ever. Regardless of suit. Worst I've done was 180 degree crossed risers behind my head as a result of totally horrible and asymmetrical body position.
Sabres are known for something I've seen referred to as the "Sabre Slam". A tendency to hard openings especially if the slider isn't fully on the stops. I got it once. I was riding at a very low fallrate at the time so instead of being painful it was merely a startlingly, -extremely- sudden stop.

I've always paid attention to keeping the slider tight to the canopy on packjobs ever since and have had no further canopy behavior issues of any kind.

Since successful long term survival in skydiving is dependent on reliable gear I've flown this setup ever since. I wore out a Sabre 135, found a good used Sabre 120 with a fresh lineset and have been jumping that ever since. Maybe 300+ jumps on it, zero issues. I plan to fly it till it wears out, too, and may well try to find another before that happens. The design is old and the canopy's glide is nothing special but it's hard to beat the reliability.
-B
Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

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Shakey

***So flaring first to dump speed then collapsing wings would be the best way to get a saber1 to open softly...(also possibly an addition of a larger or domed slider)...thx for the replys guys



I'd say definitely get a larger/domed/pocket slider, it's cheap insurance against a slammer. You may also want to get an extended bridle and a larger PC.

I will pass this on, for what it’s worth.

Looking for a first rig, I was visiting a rigger that had been in the sport for decades. The rig that I was looking at had a Sabre I in it. With less than a perfect back, I was concerned about the reputation for a hard opening. This rigger told me that when the Sabre first came out that everyone was still trying to learn how to manage the ram-air canopies and that the first years were a bit rough. Things got better over time. He went on to tell me that the trim was a critical factor on the opening. He tried to explain the details of it, which I will not try to recite, as much of it was lost on me and that was 2+ years ago. But he said he had jumped and tweaked the trim on this specific canopy 2 times and he wanted to jump it one more time to be sure he had it like he wanted it, before he sold it.

I trust him to know what he was talking about, enough that if I had a Sabre I, I would want to make sure the trim was correct on it and have it checked from time to time.
Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

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bum357

Sorry...I tried to do a search...but didnt find anything definative...I was wondering if the saber 1 would open softer due to the fact that your not moving at terminal velocity...also on a side note would a canopy know for its snivel like a pilot take even longer to open if used for wingsuiting...thx



Yes. That's why people snatch them up off the internet. The original Sabre is a great WS canopy. I suffered their hard openings for a long time prior to the advent of wingsuiting. I was stoked to find out they work so well for wingsuiting and that you can pick them up for so cheap.

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I got a Sabre just for WS. I can say that mine does indeed open very well when WS and quite a bit harder when doing a ''normal''' jump. That said once i got someone to show me how to roll the nose into itself the terminal openings are totally fine. Then again i might have just got lucky. My wife got kicked around constantly by a sabre 150 no matter what we did with it (all terminal, no WS jumps recorded)

as a side note..... i dont like using the term terminal here, should rather say what.... faster vertical speed jumps? cause in the end once you are out of that plane for 10 sec or so you are at whatever your position/suit/ect terminal is.

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EOCS

as a side note..... i dont like using the term terminal here, should rather say what.... faster vertical speed jumps? cause in the end once you are out of that plane for 10 sec or so you are at whatever your position/suit/ect terminal is.



Belly speed is usually what is being refered to when people say terminal so why not just stick to that? (To be clear, what i mean is either saying Belly speed or staying with terminal)

Since "terminal speed" is very different depending on how you fly.

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EOCS

cause in the end once you are out of that plane for 10 sec or so you are at whatever your position/suit/ect terminal is.



Any time you dive or flare in a skydive (regardless of suit) you are not at terminal, no matter when you exited the plane. Not really related to OP's use of the word, but worth pointing out.
www.WingsuitPhotos.com

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The111



Any time you dive or flare in a skydive (regardless of suit) you are not at terminal, no matter when you exited the plane. .

this and enough cardboard boxes will save your ass ask gary;)
i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .


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