Big way exit order: Was Fatality - lodi

[DSE 3]

Quote

Let's say you have a five-way and you want to start tracking right off the plane. Why not put out four floaters and make the leader a dive floater from inside the plane? The floaters would have continuous eyes on the leader from the instant they leave the plane.

This is how most experienced wingsuit organizers set it up. Putting out the base first is a mistake, IMO. This topic has been hotly debated, but the upshot is that if an inexperienced person is part of the group (for example) we want them closer to the base, not farther. If a five-way,putting three wingsuits outside and two inside is the 'norm'. One of the two inside is the base.
Walking out the exit will demonstrate if there is crossover (where fatal collisions have also occurred).
Every group jump should be dirt-dived, at least for the exit.
Don't forget to plan breakoff, and discuss what should be done in the event someone gets low/lost.
All of this is basic for those that follow the oldschool RW progression, but it seems that a lot of that knowledge is being bypassed.

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

You beat me to it, Spot. Also, I really like Bryan's idea about congretating in one spot then moving out as a group on tracking dives.

Chuck

[yoink 321]

SkymonkeyONE

You beat me to it, Spot. Also, I really like Bryan's idea about congretating in one spot then moving out as a group on tracking dives.

Chuck

I'd be interested to see how many trackers go for this approach. I could imagine them rejecting it just because they''re not spending all their dive doing what they want to be doing...

[shveddy 0]

It's my experience that I actually see this a lot with bigger groups with mixed experience levels.

The leader is usually on his/her back, spending the first ten seconds doing an intentionally pathetic track and focusing on heading/levels before gradually picking up the pace.

[Thijs 0]

DSE

This is how most experienced wingsuit organizers set it up. Putting out the base first is a mistake, IMO. This topic has been hotly debated, but the upshot is that if an inexperienced person is part of the group (for example) we want them closer to the base, not farther. If a five-way,putting three wingsuits outside and two inside is the 'norm'. One of the two inside is the base.

I have been on quite a few wingsuit jumps, but on each of them the base is usually outside in the front floater position. I have never even heared of other exit order 'techniques'.
How would you position the base in for example a 16 way?

[sdctlc 0]

Thijs

I have been on quite a few wingsuit jumps, but on each of them the base is usually outside in the front floater position. I have never even heared of other exit order 'techniques'.
How would you position the base in for example a 16 way?

With a 16 way I have the base generally come from inside 2nd or 3rd. The floaters all drive up line of flight until the base initiates the turn. The floaters are all generally filling in the left side (assuming the required turn is left) while the rest of the divers are skewed to the right side.

Clean way to do it and traffic should not be an issue as people are in the optimal situation are exiting in the approach order. Should not have to pass someone.

Scott C.

"He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

[DSE 3]

Scott answered it the way I would.
Keep the weaker flyers from flying the greatest distance. Keep the base back from the exit by a bit. This not only helps slow the build to a reasonable pace, but also lets the left side (assuming the turn is to the left) group up a bit before assuming slots.

[Thijs 0]

How do you let the base fly in this setup? On belly or on the back?
We usually have the following exit order setup (base normally on his back) (see attachement).

[DSE 3]

If everyone is highly experienced, I'd likely exit this formation the same way you've diagrammed. If there are newbies in the mix, I'd have the base inside, have him fly belly to earth until he's in the slot and on track, and then transition to backflight. If the base isn't good enough to cleanly transition from belly to back while maintaining altitude and heading, consider either having base fly on their belly or find someone else for the base.

[kallend 1,793]

DSE

If everyone is highly experienced, I'd likely exit this formation the same way you've diagrammed. If there are newbies in the mix, I'd have the base inside, have him fly belly to earth until he's in the slot and on track, and then transition to backflight. If the base isn't good enough to cleanly transition from belly to back while maintaining altitude and heading, consider either having base fly on their belly or find someone else for the base.

I think having the base come from inside works best even if there are no newbies in the mix. It minimizes the distance the last out folks have to go to catch up, and it nicely separates the people on the left and right sides without needing much crossing over. I like the way Scott does it.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Butters 0]

sdctlc

The floaters all drive up line of flight until the base initiates the turn.

I would recommend against flying up line of flight after exit. I've witnessed individuals tumbling after bad exits through those who exited early and were flying up line of flight ...

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[kallend 1,793]

Butters

***The floaters all drive up line of flight until the base initiates the turn.

I would recommend against flying up line of flight after exit. I've witnessed individuals tumbling after bad exits through those who exited early and were flying up line of flight ...

When I've exited as a floater before the base on a largish flock, I'm generally flying off the line of flight in anticipation of where the base is going to be.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[WickedWingsuits 0]

Along these lines it amazes me how many organizers try and build a formation ON line of flight without any turn.

In my experience that just never works well. The last out are ahead and above the first out and have to do some crazy stuff to get down. Without the right skills and patience you end up with people doing a 180 here and there.

The base needs to set a turn off line of flight to give everyone the easiest path to get there. Floaters are already in the correct place to turn with the base and dives just dive forward, no need for them to get down AND back.

I think the most important formation lesson I learned when I started was the leader\base puts a turn in. Until that point we had been trying to build on line of flight at our home DZ...DOH!

In my opinion, if you are being organized and there isn't a turn out the door...walk away!

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[mccordia 73]

Though for sure, building formations straight on line of flight is possible when using experience levels comparable to what FS and FF bigways demand, its far from ideal as it takes only one wrong turn to get into extremely dangerous situations.

We saw one girl dive through a 40 something way in 2008 when an organizer put out a 2 plane load, with the base exiting first from the trailing plane. Though the blame was put on her actions by certain people, lack of briefing on dive build mechanics/approach and the actual diveplan itself where the main culprits (allong with the groups far exeeding experience levels in ambition).

Making sure the LO always briefs every aspect of the dive, including approach is key.

Whatever diveplan is designed, 90s or 180 degree turns to the DZ. Make sure everyone knows how and where to fly. And respects the direction of flight relative to the base. You also dont diverge from the driving direction on the highway in your car. As long as the direction you fly always matches the direction of the base, it prevents head-on/side-on collisions.

JC
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