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Maurix

Which "Beginner" Suit?: Phantom 3 vs Swift

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Hi guys,

it is almost time for me to join the group of the birds because soon I will be taking my first flight course. At the dz where I will be taking the course you normally start with a prodigy and can advance later to a shadow. You can rent the two suits which is why I am thinking about ordering a suit for after that.

At my home dz almost 95 % are jumping P3's which is why there is no one who can compare the P3 to the swift, so no one really can help me with the decision.
My instructor just recently started flying an Aura and is really impressed which ist why he himself is pretty interested in the Swift.

I am just wondering if here are some Wingsuit pilots who have flown both suits and can tell me what are the pro's and con's of the two suits or if it doesn't really matter which one I would get because they are equally good.

I hope you understand what I want to tell you because english ist not my native language. ;)


Thanks already in advance for your help and advice

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I have 100 jumps on P3 and 70 on swift..They are both great suits,easy to fly.I found the P3 a bit easier to back fly though.But i found the swift to produce more lift.I am 190lbs so it did help..The only reason i liked the swift better is the way the wrist is shaped on the suit! it makes for a super easy pull.But both suits i think are neck & neck.And cant go wrong eather way.

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I haven't flown a P3, but I own a Swift and have flown it next to P3's and I find that I can easily overpower P3's. In flocks, I notice that I have to to open up the zippers and depressurize the suit to make it easier to fly in a group. The Swift is very fast and generates a lot of lift for its size.

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Yup you'll be good either way. Phantoms are basically the gold standard for this class of suit and I did many jumps on a p2 both skydiving and base. I own a swift and it definitely has a bit more power than a phantom as others have already commented on, and has very similar ease of use.

The difference between the two comes down to service for me. I'm sure all the Phoenix fly people will be up in arms, but if you follow these forums you'll see people have had some issues with communication and wait times. Squirrel you'll have your suit in maybe a month or so, if its not perfect and you email mike you'll get a response back usually in less than 24 hours with a solution. Its obvious that when squirrel was started they identified what people didnt like about the wingsuit ordering experience, and made sure they made it their strong points. When you fork over not a small sum of money for a custom made product, its a good feeling to have.

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^ this.
i havnt flown a swift, but have seen a couple people on the plane that are very happy with theirs. but what is making me a return customer to squirrel is their customer service. my aura was delivered in 28 days (2 weeks quicker than they first estimated) they emailed me to tell me it was going to show up sooner. everything about the ordering process and contact with the company was what you would expect when you hand someone your money.
they are even there for you afterwards. i had a street landing with my aura (base opening, still zipped up on the legs when i landed) and caught a light tail wind that i had to run out and the ends of the tail took a beating. i emailed squirrel before my drive home and received their reply about 20 minutes later. i sent in the suit that day and was flying it again, good as new, 7 days later...they did not charge me for the service (minor fix yet made the suit unairworthy) and even paid for return shipping!

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Thanks for all your replys they already helped me a lot :)

But I have one more question about the back flying capabilities of the Swift. Could you share your experiences about doing acro in the Swift? For flocking it sound really good.

Thanks in advance

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Im not really into acro that much but i have done lots of barrel rolls and a ton of back flying with both suits.The swift can hold its own thats forsure.I did find the p3 a little easier to back fly but maybe because i had 30 more jumps with the p3 then the swift.Also i found the swift to be smoother for barrel rolls.Like these guys are saying the service is top notch at squirrel.Not saying PF isnt but if you have a question or problem Mike @ squirrel will get back to you sometimes as quick as 10min!

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The P3 is a great wingsuit as anyone who has one will likely tell you. Swift is a great alternative however: a bit larger wing and seems to give a noticeable performance edge according to some that have jumped both.

In any case, I have a Swift and think it's a great wingsuit. Lots of performance for a relatively small suit, easy to fly, quality build and materials, and unmatched customer service. At least that's my experience with Squirrel.

As always, try to demo both if you can, see which you like better. Bottom line: You will like dealing with Squirrel and they are making quality wing suits, you won't be disappointed should you choose the Swift.

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Although I own a Swift I have not jumped it yet. I also have an Aura which I've flown quite much during last season, and must say that one thing that is really cool is that pull is super easy. Seems like Swift has the same construction of the upper wing and I'd guess that the pull would also be super easy.

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The Swift is a little bigger so little more lift but little less agility. (Sounds like a "general rule" in the wingsuit world). Here the Swift cost 200$ more than a P3 (the same price than an Havok for example). You also have the Piranha2 from Intrudair as cheaper alternative

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I wish that had been my experience.

I received my Colugo five months after ordering. Understandable since it was an early production model.

It didn't fit but I was told in person by Mike that it was supposed to be baggy... didn't make a lot of sense but went with it. The suit was unflyable. Back in the box.

They modded that one by running a single stitch up the back of the leg which caused massive assymmetrical armwing collapses.

I asked Matt and Mike about the status of the order and got conflicting information. I gave up on getting one six months after ordering and purchased a V5.

The second Colugo arrived two months after complaining with fit issues. It still didn't fit but it was closer. Both suits were too tall with short arms. It flew stable in its normal trim but suffered from massive arm and leg wing collapses in any kind of a dive. I asked Matt about it and rather than address the issue, instead sent a video of him flying Brevent stating that there is no need to dive more steeply than that. Nevermind the collapse occurred at anything more than 5 degrees pitch down.

After that I pretty much gave up and started jumping the V5.

Asked Matt a month later about having the suit fixed or replaced with an Aura. He fired back with an extremely passive aggressive email about how lame it was that I would post positive review and pictures of the V5.

There is plenty more but it isn't worth writing a book over. It was worst customer service experience I have ever had, in any industry (including cell phones). In the end, they refused to fix the suit or refund my money, even after multiple emails specifically asking.

From what it sounds like their customer service is better now but I'm not the only one with issues so it isn't all rainbows and unicorn farts. I completely understand that everyone will encounter fit issues and order complications. It is a custom tailored suit, however, the way it went down was sleazy.

I have ordered a lot of gear over the years and never had an issue until all this.

And to add: the measurements were correct and I have every interaction with them documented so I am not making it up ;)

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Yea, you can purchase them for 50$ extra ;)

Because of the difference in money: I would get the same price for a p3 as for a switft. That why I am thinking about buying one of them. If I would pay the normal price for a swift it would definitly be a p3.

But I somehow get the feeling that there are not so many people here who did acro with the swift, maybe even with a friend who had a p3 ... :/

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Well is the Funk really meant for beginners and for Acro? It looks more like a Ghost/Havok Type.

I just wand an allaround Wingsuit, the guys at my DZ are also jumping the P3 with acro so I thought that the Swift would be a comparable stlye suit ... good in flocks but also useable in acro

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The P3 and the Shadow are by far, the standards of acro. These are nimble and precise suits, and whether being used as a starting suit, or in the hands of a skilled flyer, one can't go wrong. You do want a suit that fits tight, that hugs your body so that it responds properly and promptly to input. Baggy=draggy and draggy doesn't work well for acro.

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Quote

Baggy=draggy and draggy doesn't work well for acro.



It is worth noting that most suits can be tailored to fit like a glove. I get mine made a little big and then get them taken in so that I am snug as a bug. Makes a HUGE difference!

The other benefit is you can remove the stitching later and that helps resale.

Even another benefit is a little breathing room for that winter weight if needed. ;)
Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month.

Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com

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i personally cant bring myself to do business with phoenix fly any longer. they make excellent products, and i do understand how many orders they are getting and that they are completely overwhelmed, but my P3 came without snap buttons, and several of my friends have had issues with wrong sizing on their suits, off colors, and missing components. its not a huge deal, but when im spending over a thousand dollars on a product i expect it to be proper. it just seems to be a pattern. im not bashing on phoenix fly, just stating mine and my friends experiences have been negative.

ill fly either tony suits or squirells when i am ready to upsize
gravity brings me down.........

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We make a huge number of suits, and sadly, despite thorough checking, the odd mistake can happen - we're all human.

I'm not aware, however, of a single instance where a problem that has been brought to our attention hasn't been fixed or remedied.

The first thing to do if you notice any issue with your new suit is to contact your dealer, or us directly if you placed your order direct.

Please, if you, or any of your friends have not experienced the above, please contact me directly: macca@phoenix-fly.com

What response did you / your friends get when they contacted us?

Sizing is a tricky one. We will make the suit to the measurements we are given. Sadly, some people don't always get the measurements right, or put on a bit of winter weight while waiting for their suit, which can obviously cause issues. If for some reason the suit doesn't match the measurements we're provided, we would of course get the suit re-built.
Phoenix Fly - High performance wingsuits for skydiving and BASE
Performance Designs - Simply brilliant canopies

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I think the issue is not if a suit has been repaired or not. But if you have a choice of getting a well-fit suit at the first time or getting a suit too long/short and having it redone.

Not bashing/defending anyone here. Just saying.

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