0
Fall0ut

New WS deployment method "wingtip pouch"

Recommended Posts

It's also not new. The idea's been around a while.

As others have said, why add complication to a system that already works.
Phoenix Fly - High performance wingsuits for skydiving and BASE
Performance Designs - Simply brilliant canopies

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The111

***What do you think?



1) What problem is it fixing?
2) Can we just get a couple pictures and words about how it works instead of a 4 minute video? :)

From the description of the video it sounds like they want to make deployment on large wingsuits easier. This is what the description said

"We are a bunch of people who strongly believe that the wingtip pouch should become THE standard among wingsuit deployment systems!
The goal of this work is to make parachute opening much more easier when flying a (large) wingsuit.
I developped it after loosing a handfull of good base jumping friends. I am convinced that the wingtip pouch can save lives."

Doesn't look like this is something that would be advantageous for mid size wingsuits in the skydiving environment. I don't fly big suits or base jump though so maybe the people who do will see more potential in this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The111

***What do you think?



1) What problem is it fixing?


It is fixing the problem of our friends dying as they cannot find / pull their PC on a WS BASE jump. Personally, I see 0 use for this system in skydiving but it is an interesting idea for WS BASE.

I do agree, however, with the doctor that the suit design has gone a long way to fix this issue, what I have heard is that in the modern suits finding the PC from the BOC is very easy. Personally I would be quite reserved in using such system even in BASE environment as I agree that it adds significant complexity to the deployment system. Still, I think it is a cool idea to play with and I do think that such ideas drive innovation of the suits towards safety. We have lost too many friends on pull related issues in BASE and I know quite an amount of others who have had close calls or otherwise unpleasant time in the air whilst searching for the PC (myself included).

Do I think this will ever be implemented in a commercially available mass product suit? No.

Do I think it is a cool idea to try out and "think outside of the box"? Absolutely.
http://www.ufufreefly.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MrCat

Did he nearly rotate through the lines at about 2.10 and in slow mo at 3.47 on the video ??



Yes it is sure is fun opening in a full track. The only future I see for this is a short report about how the jumper was unable to clear the horseshoed main pilot chute from his feet before impact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
verticalflyer

Interesting but I dont see the need and it opens up another link in the deployment procedure that could go wrong. I am all for innovation just dont see the advantage in this idea.



once you have had a fumbled pull on a WS base jump , you will appreciate this modification.

I really think its a step forwards, and will save lives.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Id like to think that the days of pulling super low in wingsuits are over. I think the risk of premature deployment from a loose grip or velcro coming loose while flying 10 ft off terrain is far more terrifying than a difficult pull at 500 ft. If youve had a difficult pull or trouble finding the pilot chute on a wingsuit that was made in the last few years, youre flying the wrong suit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
only ever had one bad one :
was told to " be conservative " and use BOC as it was what I was used to..... bad move.. after my near death experience I switched to LEG pouch on the mountain and have only ever had easy deployments since, BUT I see this as a further development along the path , once refined it could be the best thing .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dmkellett

***Interesting but I dont see the need and it opens up another link in the deployment procedure that could go wrong. I am all for innovation just dont see the advantage in this idea.



once you have had a fumbled pull on a WS base jump , you will appreciate this modification.

I really think its a step forwards, and will save lives. Darren there may well be an application for this in BASE but in over 1200 wingsuit jumps deployment even on the largest suit ever built is not a problem. If you are proximityflying with one shot only and a low deployment then possibly however there are multiple examples of base fatalities from gear changes and under pressure humans tend to revert to muscle memory of what they are used to. Personally if I cannot find ths boc I find the base of the container and then work out even on the largest wingsuit this works. Only had to use in anger once when I could not feel my hands on a 30,000ft jump but could feel my wrists so found right area and grabbexand threw. However on normal jumps not been an issue. The additional risk of off heading opening from partial burbles I would think negated ths benefit but I would be interested yo know from experienced BASE jumpers if they saw this as necessary. All fod innovation but one instance of a poor deployment/fumble would nof change my method in 1000+ deployments that did work.
Dont just talk about it, Do it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think this idea is catching a lot of sh*t when we should be praising him. It's ideas like this that advance the sport. There was a time when everyone was "used to" PCs that were stowed in the legstrap. What you're used to isn't relevant. If the new concept is better, then what you're used to will change over time. First through skydives, and then in BASE.

The future of wingsuiting is an integrated canopy/harness built into the WS. It's already been experimented with, but eventually we'll all be there. When that happens, this could very well be the new means of PC deployment.

Until then, nothing is likely to change as we're all using the same old systems.

Whether you like the idea or not, you should like that these ideas are being put out there.
Apex BASE
#1816

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bluhdow


The future of wingsuiting is an integrated canopy/harness built into the WS.



Anytime anyone is trying to make things better is great, however I agree this is a solution that no longer has a problem in recent wingsuit design. The BOC PC is easier to reach on my Aura then any suit I've ever flown with the exception of the Colugo, swift, S-fly expert and the Phantom 2.

The future of wingsuiting as you call it is already here, Integrated rigs have been available for a couple years and haven't caught on. If the demand was there, we'd be flying them already. In my opinion the only thing that is going to necessitate and push deployment style change is a change in Wingsuit design that negates the use of BOC deployment and increases performance enough to make it worth changing.

Only a guess here, but I think more pilots have been killed by PC position changes, unfamiliar gear and poorly fitting suits; then no-find/no-pull on familiar equipment. And I really think this system could very easily end up responsible for as many deaths as it prevents.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I totally agree with your vampire experience. Ive jumped them BOC before, they have the leg pouch for a reason, it needs it. The V4 seemed a bit easier from BOC, havent jumped the V5.

Yes we have been poopooing this a bit much, I do think it is a pretty good idea, but may just complicate things a bit much. Awesome job going outside the box by this guy for sure.

I dont claim to be the most experienced wingsuit base jumper out there, or probably even on this forum, but I have jumped the following suits in the base environment. Classic, GTI, S1,S3, P2, V2,V3,V4, Apache prototype, Apache, Colugo, and Aura. The V series suits needed a leg pouch. The apache was the first big suit where I felt really comfortable with the pull. The colugo and aura are the easiest suits to pull in I have ever flown.

I dont think integrated suits ever really caught on because you need a dedicated canopy for the suit. An ultralight canopy new start at around $2000, which is pretty steep to just have in one suit and one rig, whereas the apache/squirrel suits and the one piece track suits have the zip in systems that get pretty close.

The best innovation ive seen in a while is a vertically mounted BOC in the center of the container on a home built rig. You can pull easily with either arm if needed, and virtually no chance of premature deployment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

The V series suits needed a leg pouch.



Actually a lot of other suits would have a much simpler pull as well, and though it may not be your experience, mispulls/fabric grabs happen across the board, and not just on the brand you prefer to put down;) But the cut on the wing on the V series allowed for a leg pouch, where on bigger wings it leads to the armwing folding over the pouch on a pull. So design-wise, its not an option. That said, I jump any suit (including the V3/4/5) with the BOC, as for me its 2500+ wingsuit jumps experience pulling from that location. So in case of need/panic, thats most likely what muscle memory will 'make me' do. And just in terms of wingsize/gripper length, the suits dont differ from anything else of comparable size on the market in terms of pull difficulty.

The fact that pulls on big suits are 'easier' is also for a large factor depending on experience/training. The design with slight cut-ins in the suit at the wrist, is only a very small aspect. We're (in base) still seeing A LOT of people jump into new suits without a triple dozen to couple of 100 training jumps from an airplane. And good methodical training at this point in time, seems to be in bigger need that relocating the PC itself. We're seeing people in big suits on base exits, that wouldn't be allowed to jump them at dropzones due to not even having half the recommended experience levels mandated for said designs.

As you also mentioned before, if the pull is giving one trouble, more training on skydives or actually jumping a different/smaller suit would be far more valuable.
JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's not a brand I'm putting down. Vampires are great suits, but I totally agree the wing flapping over makes the pull a bit more difficult. Found the pull in the venom, phantom, and even the stealth easier. Not impossible, or even extremely difficult, just more difficult than the majority of suits. For better or worse, I used the boc for skydiving about 99% of the time on v series suits, and the leg pouch for every BASE jump but 1 or 2. I think the increased rigid pressurization and airlocks on some of the bigger suits now keep the wing out of the way on the pull and stop the need for reaching around the wing.

Im all for jumping a ton in the small suits. Some of your video flying and recently watching some of the artistic competition stuff got me back into a smaller suit at the dz and doing some back carving again for the first time in years. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I bet they said the same thing to Bill Booth when he first played with the hand deployment.

I can see a use for this in BASE but I also am a big fan of having a single deployment method. Either way I think it is good to see people experiment with options. Rarely does the first plan work but often you learn something along the way.

I am seeing similar experiments with canopies that are within the leg wing. All interesting stuff but I would rather watch for now!

I remember hearing that the Dyson guy did about 1000 prototypes before nailing the vortex for his vacuum. Innovation takes many paths.
Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month.

Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Don't get me wrong, I love innovation and advancement, but in the skydiving environment I don't currently see an issue with the existing solution. From a safety perspective I personally just don't like the idea of a bridle snaking up a wing. However if it takes off fantastic. I can understand if it helps a fumble be avoided in BASE then there is a market if the risks associated with the new design out weigh the benefit.
Dont just talk about it, Do it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

0