When to collapse your slider?

[phoenixlpr 0]

kallend

I recall many years ago a fatality that involved someone releasing their toggles and then being unable to get their hands in them again.

Anyhow, since then I've made it a rule not to take my hands out of the toggle loops once I have released the brakes, and I release the brakes above my hard deck on account of another fatality when a very experienced jumper (Jan Chandler, I believe) delayed releasing the brakes until around 1,000ft, then had a toggle hang up due to incorrectly stowed brake line tying a knot around the riser.

I see some advantage using old school type VIII risers with velcro for stowing the line excess. You can stick back you toggles and they stay there, there is no need for slider lock either, the wide riser does not let the slider fly up from the bottom.

[Martini 0]

Quote

A Sabre1 has enough extra flare to land standing from a half-braked approach. Sweet!

Probably true if lightly loaded, I like mine loaded higher and accept the more limited flare power at low airspeeds.

Sometimes you eat the bear..............

[kallend 1,621]

Brian,

Here is the thread on the Jan Chandler accident. It is quite long and goes into an extensive discussion about stowing excess brake line, hard decks, etc.

It was, I believe, this accident that prompted the gear manufacturers to pay attention to brake line issues with velcro-less risers. Prior to that, the stowing of excess brake line had mostly been left up to individual jumpers (and/or their packers).

I remember it because I had been in the same plane as Jan earlier in the year on a big way event.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[OuttaBounZ 0]

kallend

I recall many years ago a fatality that involved someone releasing their toggles and then being unable to get their hands in them again.

Anyhow, since then I've made it a rule not to take my hands out of the toggle loops once I have released the brakes, and I release the brakes above my hard deck on account of another fatality when a very experienced jumper (Jan Chandler, I believe) delayed releasing the brakes until around 1,000ft, then had a toggle hang up due to incorrectly stowed brake line tying a knot around the riser.

Crazy. I fly a non-elliptical canopy loaded a little over 1.7, and I don't see the need for toggles to fly and land a standard approach. Do people not practice flying and landing on risers anymore? Tension knot in one brake line? Correct with opposite pressure and land conservatively, plf if needed. If you die under a good (good enough) canopy after a Wingsuit flight, you had no business being in a Wingsuit. My $0.02

Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.

[Jbag 0]

do you guys unzip the left or right leg first?

IHYD

[lurch 0]

Thank you, Doc.
That was useful. I read the whole thing.

I like to study this sort of thing in as much detail as possible- knowing precisely what mistake -not- to make and/or how exactly one of these played out may save my ass (again) someday.

We had a fatality here at Pep my first year. Paul King. 227 jumps or so, landed out, boxed himself into a corner by not-seeing some powerlines, ended up hooking himself into the ground under a Sabre 190. Knowing the details, when I eventually screwed up and was forced to land there myself, I was hyperaware of hard-to-see obstacles and was looking for those lines.

The thing I noticed is people die when they get surprised by something. And it is often something small.
I already knew about loose brake lines and had a way of tucking the excess into the lower toggle retainer loop to keep it neat. The day mine surprised me with a knot, the only difference was that I had stowed it with the excess on the other side of the toggle than usual. Totally failed to notice one of my fingers was intruding into a space where that line was- I think my finger went in between the two strands of line leading down from and back up to the eye in the line. Formed a kind of 2-D chinese fingertrap when released. At first it was so weird it struck me as almost funny... thinking "What the fuck... (got a good look, tried to pull my hand back, whole steering line came with it and realized it was a solidly tied knot) SHIT! You gotta be kidding me!" That was followed by a fast assessment, realizing a cutaway is out of the question and I'm tied to a canopy and the tying simultaneously creates a control problem, next thought was all about splitting my attention between flying the canopy and trying to figure a way out.

Not the first time, either. Had another one of these happen as a result of failure to notice I'd let maintenance slide on my old Birdman S-6. When I zipped up in the plane, the left wing zipper tab broke off. Didn't think much of it till under canopy, tried to unzip and discovered my plan to grasp the body of the zipper wasn't going to work because those zippers will not unlock unless there is something through the hole where the tab lives.

Then when I tried to use the wing chop, discovered the mods I'd made to the suit had loaded up the wing tabs heavily in a few areas, which had rapidly chewed away the material on the cable, leaving my cutaway cable with a deep abrasion groove and a lot of burrs and chewed plastic debris in it. So I couldn't cutaway the damn wing, either.

The biggest mental effort through the whole thing was making sure -not- to get distracted and go all single-focus... I'd work on the zipper for a bit, steer and navigate for a bit, try the cable, go back to the canopy, try the zipper again, still nothing, finally gave up on the zipper, went back to the cable, loosened cheststrap to buy me some moving space, folded myself in half to get some leverage, (Emergency yoga!) got both hands on the cable and ripped it out pulling straight down.

I also had the additional time pressure of being long and low- I was going to need back risers to make the landing area, no outs, just trees, and my window in which to get at the back risers was closing fast... I kept looking around watching the bigger picture closing up while working on that wing thinking "God this is stupid..." I could reach the back risers with my wings on, barely, but with the brakes still stowed it wasn't gonna go the distance, rear risers or not. Got free with maybe 20 seconds left before a tree landing would have become inevitable. Then it was one long back-riser hang to treetop level, just cleared the trees, landed at the far edge of the airport but safely.

The ability to pay attention to multiple things at once and juggle priorities depending on how the situation is evolving is one of the most critical skills a jumper can have. The lack of it can fly you right into one killer problem while you're trying to solve another.
-B

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[OuttaBounZ 0]

Jbag

do you guys unzip the left or right leg first?

I replaced all my zippers with Magnets and double back tape.

Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.

[WickedWingsuits 0]

Jbag

do you guys unzip the left or right leg first?

I like to do a little tease by unzipping each just a few inches at a time till I show off some thigh.

I bet folks on the ground love it, I just know they are watching.

Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month.

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[DSE 3]

WickedWingsuits

***do you guys unzip the left or right leg first?

I like to do a little tease by unzipping each just a few inches at a time till I show off some thigh.

I bet folks on the ground love it, I just know they are watching.

Everyone likes looking up under a man's skirt. Even if they deny it.

[kallend 1,621]

DSE

******do you guys unzip the left or right leg first?

I like to do a little tease by unzipping each just a few inches at a time till I show off some thigh.

I bet folks on the ground love it, I just know they are watching.

Everyone likes looking up under a man's skirt. Even if they deny it.

I know this joke about a Scotsman, but this is a family friendly forum (FFF).

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[potatoman 0]

Seems slider stowing does not make such a difference in sequence then, as long as it is done above hard deck, and you are able to fly/avoid traffic.

Toggles, yes, I have had my share, and have a rule, 1500ft, toggles stay put. Faster canopy for normal jumps though, so more response is needed quicker.

Thanx for the input.

You have the right to your opinion, and I have the right to tell you how Fu***** stupid it is.
Davelepka - "This isn't an x-box, or a Chevy truck forum"
Whatever you do, don't listen to ChrisD.