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BrianSGermain

Wingsuit Progression Discussion VIDEO

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This video is for training purposes only. I have no desire for it to go viral, since its contents may shed a negative light on wingsuit flying. Therefore it is passord protected. Password: flatspin

https://vimeo.com/76716609

Be Safe.
Brian
Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com
Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com
Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com

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BrianSGermain

This video is for training purposes only. I have no desire for it to go viral, since its contents may shed a negative light on wingsuit flying. Therefore it is passord protected. Password: flatspin

https://vimeo.com/76716609

Be Safe.
Brian



Thought you didn't want this out there? I've shared it with the instructors here. It's gonna get out.
There are a few issues in that jump, but the first link is that you're in a suit beyond your currency, skills, and knowledge (as discussed last month in the General forum)

It's just another LSBS story, and that particular story has helped a lot of people meet the reaper this year. [:/]

Very glad you learned from it, and hope others do too.
That said, what is a really bad experience in your mind...happens to a lot of people. Sad thing is that there is an entire culture that feels that emergency/instability procedures don't need to be taught to new wingsuiters. Had you received proper instruction/direction/coaching or made the phone call...this wouldn't have occurred in the first place.

Thanks again for making the vid, thanks for sharing.

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Brian, I'm grateful that you are willing to publicly share your mistakes so others can learn from them. Keep sharing your experiences with us.
My Dad used to ask me if someone jumped off a bridge would I do that too? No, but if they jumped out of an airplane, that's a different question...

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hjumper33

Is that original birdman for sale?



Sorry, it is not for sale. I show it off fairly regularly at the National Air and Space Museum for comparison to the modern standard. People really get a kick out of it.

-Bri
Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com
Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com
Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com

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Pat007

Brian, I'm grateful that you are willing to publicly share your mistakes so others can learn from them. Keep sharing your experiences with us.



The day I stop making and learning from mistakes is the day I stop living...
Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com
Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com
Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com

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Looks good, but was short on detail. If you're gonna state a goal of some kind of progression plan, you need to lay that out in detail as opposed to presenting the principle. Off the top of my head:
How many jumps to qualify for WS
What size/type of WS for rookies
What canopy and rig
What rig mods

You need to address all that and then some. Good vid though.
Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

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IMHO, too many people jump into big suits without a sensible progression through the ranks of suits.

Not only is this detrimental to their own personal skills, but to the safety of themselves and others.

This isn't helped by the manufacturers listings on the websites which people will look at as a guide and confirmation for their choices.

150 wingsuit jumps for an X-Bird? Well maybe you will 'do ok', but this isn't in my personal belief and progression plan, anywhere near enough.

But who am I...

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I definitely agree with the whole LSBS idea. I ran into a jumper wearing an X-bird, at the time I had about 90 ws jumps and was jumping my R-bird. I asked if he wanted to go on a 2-way and assumed he would come up with a dive plan since he was in an X-bird and had to have more experience than me. To my surprise he had 20 ws jumps and had been jumping an X-bird since around his 10th ws jump. He told me he tried a prodigy and phantom 3 but they just didn't have enough power...

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This whole discussion is the exact same thing as canopy downsizing.
People focus on 'what the suit can do' too much, vs their own skills, and often go for bigger suits way prematurely, and (again, like canopy progression) without the proper steps/progression in between to work up towards flying that size suit.

People coming to me to fly XXX suit better, I usually talk out of the suit first.
Than fly a small suit, and work on the actual flying technique. There are subtle differences, but putting on a big suit doesn't make one fly better.
Often it just adds a lot of additional dangers when people haven't learnt to deal with instability, deployment and more in the smaller suit first.

A big thing also with big suit flying is that a lot of people fly with wrong technique. Not flying clean. As the amount of drag/surface lets them get away with murder (so to speak). Stuff that usually doesnt become apparent until they put on a smaller wingsuit (or when they take that big suit off a cliff through news reports).

If people would just stick to the advised currency/experience levels that most manufacturers have (or should have) for their suits, that would already make a huge difference. Granted, some of those currency levels are also set more with sales than safety in mind. But you have to start somewhere, as we are way past the need to learn through trial/error. The knowledge is out there, both online and with the people teaching (be it the right coach you ask)
JC
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Jhonny Florez just proved you don't need a big suit to be the "best". He won the WWL in a suit that is based on the size of an S-Bird. Still actually a biggish suit but certainly a break from the trend of mega-mattress.

Most folks would do well to take a step back from the size of the suit and look in the mirror.

I will be bringing my Apache Scorpion to the US Performance Cup and am looking forward to taking on some huge suits.
Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month.

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Quote

Jhonny Florez just proved you don't need a big suit



I hope you're also joking there.....the suit Jhonny flew was 'huge'!!!

Just because there are 'bigger' suits around, doesnt suddenly make this small and docile. There is big, bigger and ridiculous. But dont let that influence your view/image of whats normal/intermediate sized and suitable for most of the wingsuit pilots out there. The skewed views people have on whats 'needed' to fly well is whats pushing/driving the whole big suit craze.

There's a lot of cool and amazing stuff you can do with suits that are half the size in wing surface, both in skydiving and base. As long as you make it about the actual technique and skills, and stop masturbating to time/distance as the only view on whats good and what not.

If people focussed more on agility, flying technique and the actual control of movement (the way you do with dedicated training in FS/FF) in small steps, we'd be seeing so much more than people pointing noses in one direction and planking.

What Jhonny did, the suit was for sure a factor in that. But its him having a shitload of jumps/experience that was the biggest factor. Put 10 pilots up there in the same suit, and you get 10 different scores. Stop making it all about the gear, and focus more on the pilot inside the suit, and the skills he/she has. That's what makes an awesome wingsuit jump.
JC
FlyLikeBrick
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mccordia

Quote

Jhonny Florez just proved you don't need a big suit



I hope you're also joking there.....the suit Jhonny flew was 'huge'!!!



Ummm... Not arguing with most of what you wrote, but for those who haven't seen it, a Scorpion (the suit Jhonny flew) is almost exactly the same size as an S-bird. It has a different wing shape than an S-bird (arm wing is slightly swept back, lower tail root), but is otherwise nearly identical.

Source: I had one briefly by accident.
Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography

Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

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It actually wasn't huge at all, it is the same suit that Roberta and I fly. It is big but nothing compared to the huge suits. The point is you don't need to be in the biggest suit on the market to do good things.

He was flying an Apache II in practice and switched over to the Scoprion. So while his flying is above many the suit did indeed make a difference.

You probably haven't seen one as there are still less than a dozen out there.
Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month.

Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com

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Skwrl

***

Quote

Jhonny Florez just proved you don't need a big suit



I hope you're also joking there.....the suit Jhonny flew was 'huge'!!!



Ummm... Not arguing with most of what you wrote, but for those who haven't seen it, a Scorpion (the suit Jhonny flew) is almost exactly the same size as an S-bird. It has a different wing shape than an S-bird (arm wing is slightly swept back, lower tail root), but is otherwise nearly identical.

Source: I had one briefly by accident.

Right, the basic concept is simple. "Take an Apache and shrink it to the size of an S-Bird".
Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month.

Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com

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Looking at the pictures from China, and the suit he is flying here I see a huge carpet. Perhaps its your definition of what defines small/large that needs some revision?

As if this is what's considered a small suit by your book, Im starting to see one source for the whole issue of people upsizing way to fast these days...[:/]
JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

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The first thing to know is there are multiple suits with the same design flown by Jhonny. Including Apache II and Scorpion.

The second thing to accept is that the Scorpion is based on the proportions of an S Bird.

If you consider an S Bird to be a huge mega mattress then yes it is massive. Personally I don't but I do caution people that once the tail goes below the feet some really scary stuff can happen quickly. This is why we have less than a dozen rental S Birds.

This isn't a marketing ploy. I am not a TonySuit dealer just a rental agent and we do not rent Scoprions at this time. I just happen to think this is a wonderful suit which exists because I personally don't like to fly mega suits.

The sad part is my original post was in agreement with your point. You don't need the biggest suits on the market to do well and the trend of going bigger and bigger reaches diminishing returns. The right skills with the right sized suit will take care of real business.
Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month.

Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com

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You're turning this into a huge discussion, but you're not answering the question and ignoring the facts/pictures.
The photo posted, thats the suit he flew in China. Is that the 'small' suit you're talking about?

I understand the need to call out which suit is based on what design. But look passed that stuff, and simply judge the pictures based on the actual size of the suit.

That's a huge, carpet-sized, big ass wingsuit. Sure there may be bigger ones. But that doesnt make this small by a long shot.

Grippers that are about double the length of a normal Sbird. An armwing about double the size, with the wingroot extending all the way to the ankle, several cells wide.

Look at that pictures, and explain how that ties into your quote???

Quote

Jhonny Florez just proved you don't need a big suit



If you honestly believe that's a small suit (again, look at the pictures) thats a big problem in my book, and safety wise, you honestly need to start revising your view on what is big and small with regards to what you coach/advise.
JC
FlyLikeBrick
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