LODI wingsuit ban

[parachutist 1]

roostnureye

correct me if im wrong but the whole ffc thing is a fairly new requirment no? what about people who were wingsuiting long before the bureaucracy tried to take control of wingsuiting? just trying to understand how that could even apply to folks that were doing it before there was even a consideration of a course to take?

For those who predated the FFC, the personal interview can suffice. Answer a few questions to verify you know what you're doing, and to convince the plane owner you will be kind to it.

[LyraM45 0]

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I will be jumping and expanding to other dropzones around the area. More and more jumpers are going to Davis and we had 9 WS pilots the other day during a weekday

Byron and Davis are going off this summer-- lots of events and fun stuff, so bring on the WS too! I know about this time last summer Davis lowered jump tickets to $18 each, and if enough people kept coming out and keeping planes turning, they were going to let that price ride. Maybe they'll do the same thing this season! At that point Lodi WS refugees can almost get the same value.

Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)

[WickedWingsuits 0]

Last time I turned up at Elsinore I had a wingsuit briefing. Although not obvious I feel that it is a form of "interview". If the person you are briefing doesn't "get it" then clearly they have other issues. It is all about balance. They didn't ask to see my logbook, I expect they do in some cases.

I have a stamp I used to use to give a FFC entry in a logbook. There is no reason I couldn't do that on a card to be carried instead of it being in a logbook.

A FFC doesn't guarantee someone won't break your dropzone, just like a D doesn't guarantee someone won't hook in...but it is better than nothing.

This is all interesting, but at the end of the day I do support the DZO's right to "refuse service".

I wish we could have a reference list of dropzones and their special WS rules including bans or limitations.

Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month.

Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com

[GobbleGobble 0]

WickedWingsuits

I wish we could have a reference list of dropzones and their special WS rules including bans or limitations.

Make one.

[The111 0]

LyraM45

At that point Lodi WS refugees can almost get the same value.

It's always been a better value to jump at Davis or Byron (assuming you value more than money). You mean "almost the same price."

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[normiss 620]

" A log book would have your FFC signed and dated, as well as other details about your jumps. "

NOT TRUE!!!

Log books fill up. Mine go WAAAAAAAAAAY beyond my FFC.




Yes, I do have a log book somewhere in that pile that says I did in fact complete a BM and PF FFC. With multiple instructors for that matter.
I'm gonna have to ship all my log books to my next visiting DZ's from now on apparently.

[LyraM45 0]

The111

***At that point Lodi WS refugees can almost get the same value.

It's always been a better value to jump at Davis or Byron (assuming you value more than money). You mean "almost the same price."

OK-- close enough! "Almost the same price."

Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)

[sdctlc 0]

WickedWingsuits

I wish we could have a reference list of dropzones and their special WS rules including bans or limitations.

Simon,

You have a built in opportunity to just post here and see what happens. Just do it about a week before heading to a DZ and BAMMMM, you will have an answer.

I do 100% agree that at any DZ, it is the DZO's sandbox and they can do what they want. Just because I want to jump out of their airplane(s), does not mean I have a God given right to do whatever the hell I want.

Secondly, I don't remember the last time I traveled with a logbook and have never really been questioned about that. On one occasion that I was questioned about currency by Manifest, the DZO came out saw me said "Hey Scott, its been awhile" asked me how I was doing and that pretty much ended the manifest persons questions.

Finally and IMO, WS brings in a different level of responsibility on both sides especially with a much keener eye that is now being cast with all the hubalouuuu that has been going on the last few years. If a DZ had some guidelines and after going over them resulted in a question about an unknown to that DZ WS jumpers ability, refer to the "Sandbox" comment above.

Scott C.

"He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

[WickedWingsuits 0]

GobbleGobble

***
I wish we could have a reference list of dropzones and their special WS rules including bans or limitations.

Make one.

Oh, such sweet memories:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=4185066;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month.

Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com

[normiss 620]

Very well said Scott.

[GobbleGobble 0]

WickedWingsuits

******
I wish we could have a reference list of dropzones and their special WS rules including bans or limitations.

Make one.

Oh, such sweet memories:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=4185066;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;



So you started a thread about coaching. Awesome. Do the same thing for wingsuit rules. While you are at it ask them about WS specific briefings. Flight patterns for wingies, etc. I'm not being sarcastic. If you'd like to see something happen the best way is to do it yourself. If you can't then try to find people that will help.

[kallend 1,621]

parachutist

***^^^^^
THIS!!!!


Since having a D license....can someone enlighten me as to why I would need a paper log book?
Care to guess how many of those are works of fiction anyway?

AFFI course is first thing that comes to mind, aside from showing up at a new DZ where nobody knows you. Tandem rating too.

1. Not everyone wishes to be an AFFI or TM

2. I've been to lots of DZs around the USA, from east coast to west coast, and have yet to be asked for a paper log book.

3. IMO its rather more difficult to fake the last 100 jump details on an Altitrak than to fake a paper log book.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jpengel 0]

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For those who predated the FFC, the personal interview can suffice. Answer a few questions to verify you know what you're doing

What about the possible scenario where the interviewee has more WS experience than the interviewer? I imagine that could cause some discomfort for both parties...

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and to convince the plane owner you will be kind to it.

It is not in the best interest of anyone to have a tail strike. This tatic may work for inexperienced wingsuiters, but insinuating that all wingsuiters want to hit the tail, and the DZO having the mentality that they will, unless you are 'convinced' that they won't, doesn't create the best foundation for a good conversation.

However, it is your party, you make the rules. People can play somewhere else if they dont like them.

[hjumper33 0]

I agree with the logbook thing. I haven't logged a jump in 5 years. Even if I had my most recent logbook, it wouldn't have my ffc on it. I thought that was kind of the point of getting a d license so you could vouche for yourself. Should I make a fake log book for travel purposes just to make people feel better?

If I have to be totally honest, some of the wingsuit ban at Lodi has to do with BASE jumping. NorCal is quite a hub, and a lot of climber, para glider, or other type base jumpers try out their new suits there before taking them to other local sites. A fair few of these jumpers don't have a ton of skydives and feel like they can kind of slip under the radar, especially on a slower weekday when not all the higher up wingsuiters who normally regulate are there.

[parachutist 1]

jpengel

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For those who predated the FFC, the personal interview can suffice. Answer a few questions to verify you know what you're doing

What about the possible scenario where the interviewee has more WS experience than the interviewer?

No one in the office has much experience flying a WS, so that scenario occurs most every time. It's all observational experience from being around Wingsuits on the DZ, talking with them, reading about them, flying with them on the plane, etc.

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I imagine that could cause some discomfort for both parties...

Not really. It's just two people talking to make sure they understand each other.

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and to convince the plane owner you will be kind to it.

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It is not in the best interest of anyone to have a tail strike. This tatic may work for inexperienced wingsuiters, but insinuating that all wingsuiters want to hit the tail, and the DZO having the mentality that they will, unless you are 'convinced' that they won't, doesn't create the best foundation for a good conversation.

You shouldn't be surprised by this mentality. It's much like riding a motorbike in town: You should assume everyone is trying to kill you. They want to run you over. They don't really, but that's how it can appear when a truck is moving into your lane.

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However, it is your party, you make the rules. People can play somewhere else if they dont like them.

I just follow the local rules. I didn't create them, but I can understand and support them.

[Scrumpot 1]

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I stopped keeping a logbook in 2010. I guess I won't be going to Lodi. None of the other DZs I go to has ever asked for one.

Chris' ("parachutist") rules regarding a paper log-book being required, being referred-to Prof, are for Skydive Santa Barbara. If you choose to visit Lodi - at least in regards to your "lack" of a paper logbook only, in of itself goes - you won't find any problem with that, there.

Just to clarify for you.

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[Scrumpot 1]

Hey Scott, its been awhile... How've you been doing lately?

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[LyraM45 0]

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2. I've been to lots of DZs around the USA, from east coast to west coast, and have yet to be asked for a paper log book.

Am I the only person who has 100% always (well, with the exception of Lodi) been asked for a log book? I thought log book, license, USPA#, reserve card, and possibly your whole rig, was standard fare during check in at a new dz?

Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)

[hjumper33 0]

I always did before I had my D license. Once youre able to sign your own logbook, the purpose seems fairly defeated as I could just make up anything I wanted.

[LyraM45 0]

Aahh, gotchya. I dunno, even in my brief stint working manifest many years ago, I still checked. Maybe I'm too anal

Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)

[mccordia 73]

Our Dutch rules/regulations allow for a digital logbook to be kept, as long as all details on location/date/jump type/delay etc are noted.

This means an altitrack and/or protrack are not concidered a logbook.
But a detailed listing (downloaded data, with added location/jump type information) are, through JumpTrack or Paralog.

Ive been using this digital logbook (on my laptop) as my only logbook the last several thousand jumps as well, and never had any problems on any DZ world-wide presenting this as my logbook for DZ checks/registration.

But its also in my organisations rules as such. USPA may have a paper logbook in their rules, which would mean you need to stick to it. And a DZO can hold you up to that.

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[Butters 0]

What is this "logbook" people are speaking of?

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[mccordia 73]

Butters

What is this "logbook" people are speaking of?

Its a document where I note which jumps I made with which students, how many jumps are on my main, and in general the places Ive been. Fun to read back.
And if somebody asks, where I can look up data on these students regarding how they did, and if they passed their FFC etc.

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[normiss 620]

It's just because you look "sketchy".

[michalm21 0]

LyraM45

Am I the only person who has 100% always (well, with the exception of Lodi) been asked for a log book? I thought log book, license, USPA#, reserve card, and possibly your whole rig, was standard fare during check in at a new dz?

I've been to a few world class dropzones that did not ask for a logbook or even a reserve card. Just renewed my waiver, showed license and added money to the account (even after not jumping there for months/years at a time)