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Snorks

Suit for tall beginner

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Hey there, I've been jumping for a few years now and am looking into trying out WS flying and getting my first suit. I'm 6' 3" and 200lb out the door. I've heard that a person's height and weight can drastically affect the performance of the different suits out there so I was hoping to hear some advice on what would be the best suit to get. I've looked at the P3 and the T-Bird as possibilities.

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I'm 6'2 205 out the door. The new smaller suits are great. I have a P2 and don't ever plan on getting rid of it. it works great for every aspect of flying. I have flown both the T bird and P2/3 and they are both good suits. I know people who find that the T-Bird doesn't provide a large enough range so they purchased a R-Bird. The performance of the suit relies on how well you fly your body and the suit.

I would recommend trying to find one that fits and doing a few jumps on each. Really what it comes down to how you fly your body and which one feels the best in flight. A WS is a tool and you need the right tool for the job.

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Hi Snorks,

I'm 6'2", 200ish and I've either owned or flown the T/R/S-Birds and the Phantom 1/2/3. I mostly fly a S-Bird and a P3. The S is easy to fly at max float or max speed, the airlocks help shape your body into a good position. The P3 is a constant learning experience, every little body position change has an effect on the suit. The Flysight data I have (not from back-to-back flights, so YMMV) indicate that (at least for me) the S can fly a little slower, the P3 has a slightly higher top speed, and the S has an edge in GR. But again, that's for me. I have a friend who can float the living jeebus out of a P2. My advice is:

- if you want something easy to fly, get a Tonysuit. They basically fly themselves.

- if you want to learn a lot about how body position affects flying, or if you want to backfly, get a P2z or P3.

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Thanks for all the replies, guys. Some useful information there. I'd most like to get into aerobatics and flocking with a wingsuit so is there any particular suit that excels at that more so than others? Might be worth noting that the other wingsuit pilots are my DZ are shorter and well... let's just say their BMI is higher than mine so would that mean for flocking I would be better off with a suit with a smaller surface area or I would tend to either float or speed past them without a lot of experience in the suit?

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Man, you just can't go wrong with a Phantom. Particularly the 2's and 3's. I have two now and i'm an idiot for ever getting rid of the third one I used to have.

Chuck



Correction, you can go wrong with a Phantom 2 but not with a 2z or 3. The differences between the 2 and 2z are greater than the differences between the 2z and 3.
"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

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Snorks

Hey there, I've been jumping for a few years now and am looking into trying out WS flying and getting my first suit. I'm 6' 3" and 200lb out the door. I've heard that a person's height and weight can drastically affect the performance of the different suits out there so I was hoping to hear some advice on what would be the best suit to get. I've looked at the P3 and the T-Bird as possibilities.



I'm 6'2" 205 out the door and love my phantom 2. That being said, I will try out an R bird / S bird next year and see if I want to switch.
You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

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Thanks for the offer, Zeemax, not possible under the current BPA regs though as I've less than 500 jumps. I did a few jumps before they changed it all but now no can do. As I'm in Northern Ireland though I can always pop down to the Irish DZ which would permit me to jump one given I've jumped wingsuits before! :)

Been looking a bit more and been thinking the Shadow 2 is what I'd like to go for. Gripperless flying seems like better craic

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The rule in the ops manual is more to stop inexperienced/uncurrect people starting to wingsuit, if you have been at the required currency level previously and wingsuited successfully then it is not necessarily a barrier to carrying on, it depends on the individual case.

For instance, if a new jumper does 300 jumps in their first year, (100 of them wingsuit jumps) and then doesn't jump for 18 months, then I would not expect them to do another 200 regular skydives before wingsuiting again.

However, if they had 202 jumps (their last 2 had been WS) and have not jumped for 18 months, I would expect them to go get current again first.

Your experience level will fall somewhere between these two extremes and would need assessing by a WS coach/CCI.

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As I'm in Northern Ireland though I can always pop down to the Irish DZ which would permit me to jump



Something I see a lot is people skipping to another country to avoid their home country rules. Do note, that unless you have another licence like USPA for that country, you will always be jumping anywhere in the world as a BPA jumper.

Should there be a problem where you need your (liability and/or medical) insurance, its still your own rules that are being ignored. And the insurance 'could' give you shit for that, and not pay up.

A Swedish jumper that needs 500 jumps to wingsuit in Sweden, will need the same 500 jumps to fly elsewhere. And a USPA jumper needing 200 jumps can not go to France and learn to fly at 150 jumps, even though they offer that. For both jumpers, the only 'loophole' regulation wise is to get a local skydiving licence which is also valid for their type of insurance.

Its all very technical stuff, not related to safety. But in case you put a dent in an airplane, something worth thinking about.

That aside the BPA rules dont make much sense anyways. All these rules, but you can still get away with skipping them with CCI approval.
JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

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Thanks for the reply and concern, Jarno.
I do intend to get membership in the PAI as I'll be regularly jumping at the Irish Parachute Club. Where I live is about equidistant from my current dropzone and it.

I know that it used to be in the BPA that the CCI could skip the rules back when I did my first 3 wingsuit jumps here but from what I believe things have changed and the BPA recommendations have become rules now and cannot be bypassed by a CCI.

Out of curiosity would you recommend a Shadow 2 to a beginner?

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Firstly yeah, Shadow 2 or Phantom 3 are perfect for beginner, or a Tonysuit Intro/T Bird.

Nobody mentioned skipping the rules now, or CCIs overriding them. The currency rule was introduced with first flights in mind and although the wording of the ops manual says that you can't have WS1 without the required currency, obviously it is possible to obtain WS1 (and WS2 for that matter) and then slip out of the currency requirement before you get to 500 jumps as time passes.

As with many areas in the ops manual, there is not 100% clarity which requires CCIs to use their professional judgement. A common sense approach has to be applied and most CCIs have some of that thankfully.

For those that can't be arsed to look it up:

"6.9. Wing Suit (WS)

6.9.1. To obtain Grade 1 in Wing Suit (WS1) flying, the parachutist must be a ‘C’ Licence holder with at least 500 descents or at least 200 descents within the previous 18 months and must demonstrate (in a belly to earth position, as in 6.4.1. above) the ability to:

a) Control fall rate and turn in place.

b) Dive and approach a target and achieve docking techniques.

c) Break-off turn and track away to obtain clear airspace for deployment.

d) Maintain good altitude awareness throughout the skydive.

e) Control horizontal movement (forwards, backwards and sideways).

6.9.2. The parachutist may then be introduced to WS (for WS1 training) by a CCI/Advanced Instructor nominated WS2 Grade parachutist or equivalent of proven WS instructional ability, have received a full safety brief and demonstrated the ability to:

a) Complete out at least one descent using a training wing suit/tracking suit (parachutists with less than 500 descents).

b) Fly the wing suit safely and in a controlled manner (with overall stability) on at least three descents.

c) Deploy the main parachute in a safe wing suit manner (at the correct altitude) on at least three descents.

d) Fly a predetermined flight pattern and land within 50 metres of the target.

e) Demonstrate the correct post opening procedures on all qualifying descents.

6.9.3. Once WS1 has been obtained, the parachutist must not make WS descents with others without CCI approval, (a log book endorsement will suffice) and initially only small groups (e.g. 2-3 ways).

6.9.4. To obtain Grade 2 in Wing Suit (WS2) the parachutist must be Grade 1 in WS (WS1) and be introduced to WS2 by a CCI/Advanced Instructor nominated WS2 Grade parachutist or equivalent of proven WS instructional ability, have received a full safety brief and demonstrated the ability to:

a) Control fall rate, by arching/de arching and use of wings.

b) Control of horizontal movement: forwards, backwards (slowing down relative to others) and sideways.

c) Maintain control whilst flying suit at it’s best and least effective capabilities.

d) Recover from an unstable exit and continue on correct flight path.

e) Dive and approach a target.

f) Land within 25 metres of the target on 5 consecutive descents.

6.9.5. Once WS2 has been obtained, the parachutist may jump with groups larger than 3 with CCI approval (a log book endorsement will suffice).

N.B.(1) Training programmes such as those contained in the BPA Wing Suit Training Manual are acceptable for training for WS1 & WS2, provided all the requirements of sub-para 6.9. (above) are met.

N.B.(2) The qualifications to become a WS coach may be found on BPA Form 134E."

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