kallend 1,881 #1 November 9, 2012 Since some continue to doubt that a wingsuit jumper produces lift: www.sciencefriday.com/video/10/26/2012/plunge-into-the-science-of-base-jumping.html Wingtip vortices made visible.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 737 #2 November 9, 2012 Oh I love restarted threads after mods lock us down. Let me go get some popcorn and a fresh draught beer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,881 #3 November 9, 2012 QuoteOh I love restarted threads after mods lock us down. Let me go get some popcorn and a fresh draught beer. New information available makes it permissible.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johenrik 0 #4 November 9, 2012 QuoteSince some continue to doubt that a wingsuit jumper produces lift: www.sciencefriday.com/video/10/26/2012/plunge-into-the-science-of-base-jumping.html Wingtip vortices made visible. Everyone knows that wingsuits produce lift. The question is if a wingsuit can create more lift than the force of gravity pulling us down. -Jo Henrik Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5.samadhi 0 #5 November 9, 2012 pretty sure that Tony has listened to that weird german girl and he is making his wingsuits in an extra large size designed for soaring near cliffs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 737 #6 November 10, 2012 Thermals, it's all about thermals. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shredex 0 #7 November 10, 2012 And how big of a burrito you had the night before. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
uberchris 0 #8 November 10, 2012 dont hate. all that poor giselle gal needs is a good solid root session. dont you remember them nerdy gals from highschool?gravity brings me down......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gisellemartins 0 #9 November 10, 2012 Quotepretty sure that Tony has listened to that weird german girl and he is making his wingsuits in an extra large size designed for soaring near cliffs. Weird? I think the only weirdo here is you, your wrong as usual jumpers are, I'm not German, I'm Brazilian. Oh and by the way, yes Tony is a very open minded man and he will listen to almost anyone who has something interesting to contribute. Yes I do suggest Tony some design features, like pointed wingtips for less vortex and more performance, he did create a prototype with pointed wingtips, it flew really well but the proto has less internal pressure ( harder to fly)Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gisellemartins 0 #10 November 10, 2012 Quote dont hate. all that poor giselle gal needs is a good solid root session. dont you remember them nerdy gals from highschool? Huh? root session? Poor me? the only poor person here is you love... makes me laugh, oh dear....Well beauty and brain can come together in some nerdy girls, but in your case I think they forgot the brain? or both? Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,404 #11 November 10, 2012 Quote he did create a prototype with pointed wingtips,... the proto has less internal pressure ( harder to fly) Well blow me down. Who could possibly have predicted that?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gisellemartins 0 #12 November 10, 2012 Quote Quote he did create a prototype with pointed wingtips,... the proto has less internal pressure ( harder to fly) Well blow me down. Who could possibly have predicted that? Me and Tony predicted that, but in the world of glider design theory can sometimes be different from reality. Pointed wingtips has its obvious advantages, that's why all high performance birds like albatrosses, falcons, gliders, etc.. all has pointed wingtips for less vortex and more performance. If we can work out a way to keep the same pressure on the wings and keep the pointed long tips that would be a big gain in performance, I'm sure Tony will keep trying.Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,881 #13 November 10, 2012 QuoteQuoteSince some continue to doubt that a wingsuit jumper produces lift: www.sciencefriday.com/video/10/26/2012/plunge-into-the-science-of-base-jumping.html Wingtip vortices made visible. Everyone knows that wingsuits produce lift. Many posts on dz.com show this not to be true. Quote The question is if a wingsuit can create more lift than the force of gravity pulling us down. Any time your vertical speed decreases you are producing a lift force that exceeds the force of gravity. f=m(dv/dt) aka f=ma... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gisellemartins 0 #14 November 10, 2012 QuoteQuoteSince some continue to doubt that a wingsuit jumper produces lift: www.sciencefriday.comiencefriday.com/video/10/26/2012/plunge-into-the-scof the-of-base-jumping.html Wingtip vortices made visible. Everyone knows that wingsuits produce lift. The question is if a wingsuit can create more lift than the force of gravity pulling us down. Not everyone knows it here, showed by many posters before. A wingsuit will do that when it's sink rate (vertical speed) be less than the speed of the rising air. The speed of the rising air minus your wingsuit sink rate, the result is how much lift your having. The bigger the suit the better the sink rate, the better the sink rate the more chance you have to lifted by rising air.Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sky12345 0 #15 November 10, 2012 Quote Wingtip vortices made visible. Wingtip vortices do not necessarily indicate that there's lift. Even at 90 degree angle of attack there will be vortices, but no lift, only drag. If the object does not follow the path of a falling sphere, it is by definition developing lift, vortices or not, since it is lift that is perpendicular to the trajectory at each moment and thus only lift can deviate object from falling straight down. Quote Any time your vertical speed decreases you are producing a lift force that exceeds the force of gravity. f=m(dv/dt) aka f=ma Wrong - not any time. When we're moving down, it's not only lift that opposes gravity, but also drag. When the vector sum of lift and drag exceeds gravity, lift not necessarily does, it can still be less than gravity. In two situations - on high-speed exit when jumper goes above the plane and when "Wing Suits Gain Altitud. PERIOD!" , lift exceeds gravity any time. Maybe you should go back to school to study elementary physics, like Brazilian chick suggests, Professer? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,404 #16 November 10, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteSince some continue to doubt that a wingsuit jumper produces lift: www.sciencefriday.comiencefriday.com/video/10/26/2012/plunge-into-the-scof the-of-base-jumping.html Wingtip vortices made visible. Everyone knows that wingsuits produce lift. The question is if a wingsuit can create more lift than the force of gravity pulling us down. Not everyone knows it here, showed by many posters before. A wingsuit will do that when it's sink rate (vertical speed) be less than the speed of the rising air. The speed of the rising air minus your wingsuit sink rate, the result is how much lift your having. The bigger the suit the better the sink rate, the better the sink rate the more chance you have to lifted by rising air. It's like you're doing it on purpose. You're starting a fresh conversation at cross-purposes with everyone else and you'll probably start calling everyone else an idiot if they continue the original conversation. The entire song and dance is in danger of happening all over again.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gisellemartins 0 #17 November 10, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteSince some continue to doubt that a wingsuit jumper produces lift: www.sciencefriday.comiencefriday.com/video/10/26/2012/plunge-into-the-scof the-of-base-jumping.html Wingtip vortices made visible. Everyone knows that wingsuits produce lift. The question is if a wingsuit can create more lift than the force of gravity pulling us down. Not everyone knows it here, showed by many posters before. A wingsuit will do that when it's sink rate (vertical speed) be less than the speed of the rising air. The speed of the rising air minus your wingsuit sink rate, the result is how much lift your having. The bigger the suit the better the sink rate, the better the sink rate the more chance you have to lifted by rising air. It's like you're doing it on purpose. You're starting a fresh conversation at cross-purposes with everyone else and you'll probably start calling everyone else an idiot if they continue the original conversation. The entire song and dance is in danger of happening all over again. Jake you are the one always causing trouble. Kellend and I said not everyone knows it, that's not insulting or calling others idiots. The only person always swearing and insulting others here is you. Franckly, get a life and leave us having a good productive conversation.Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yorick 0 #18 November 11, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteSince some continue to doubt that a wingsuit jumper produces lift: www.sciencefriday.comiencefriday.com/video/10/26/2012/plunge-into-the-scof the-of-base-jumping.html Wingtip vortices made visible. Everyone knows that wingsuits produce lift. The question is if a wingsuit can create more lift than the force of gravity pulling us down. Not everyone knows it here, showed by many posters before. A wingsuit will do that when it's sink rate (vertical speed) be less than the speed of the rising air. The speed of the rising air minus your wingsuit sink rate, the result is how much lift your having. The bigger the suit the better the sink rate, the better the sink rate the more chance you have to lifted by rising air. Sorry, I don't quiet get why rising air comes here into the equation. I mean. Your right, but wingsuits are hardly affected by rising air."The 'perfect' parachute jump was thought to be one where the opening shock and touchdown were simultaneous" -Lyle Cameron, ~1965 --- Falling-With-Style.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 737 #19 November 11, 2012 speaking of rising air, beer! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,404 #20 November 11, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteSince some continue to doubt that a wingsuit jumper produces lift: www.sciencefriday.comiencefriday.com/video/10/26/2012/plunge-into-the-scof the-of-base-jumping.html Wingtip vortices made visible. Everyone knows that wingsuits produce lift. The question is if a wingsuit can create more lift than the force of gravity pulling us down. Not everyone knows it here, showed by many posters before. A wingsuit will do that when it's sink rate (vertical speed) be less than the speed of the rising air. The speed of the rising air minus your wingsuit sink rate, the result is how much lift your having. The bigger the suit the better the sink rate, the better the sink rate the more chance you have to lifted by rising air. It's like you're doing it on purpose. You're starting a fresh conversation at cross-purposes with everyone else and you'll probably start calling everyone else an idiot if they continue the original conversation. The entire song and dance is in danger of happening all over again. Jake you are the one always causing trouble. Kellend and I said not everyone knows it, But you're talking about a completely different phenomenon to Kallend. If that continues to be the case, how productive is the conversation going to be?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,881 #21 November 11, 2012 QuoteQuoteWingtip vortices made visible. Wingtip vortices do not necessarily indicate that there's lift. Even at 90 degree angle of attack there will be vortices, but no lift, only drag. The vortices made visible in the referenced video are clearly produced by lift and not drag. A cursory examination of their symmetry shows this.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,881 #22 November 11, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteSince some continue to doubt that a wingsuit jumper produces lift: www.sciencefriday.comiencefriday.com/video/10/26/2012/plunge-into-the-scof the-of-base-jumping.html Wingtip vortices made visible. Everyone knows that wingsuits produce lift. The question is if a wingsuit can create more lift than the force of gravity pulling us down. Not everyone knows it here, showed by many posters before. A wingsuit will do that when it's sink rate (vertical speed) be less than the speed of the rising air. The speed of the rising air minus your wingsuit sink rate, the result is how much lift your having. The bigger the suit the better the sink rate, the better the sink rate the more chance you have to lifted by rising air. Lift and drag are forces, and forces produce accelerations, not speeds. You are confused.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gisellemartins 0 #23 November 11, 2012 Quote Everyone knows that wingsuits produce lift. The question is if a wingsuit can create more lift than the force of gravity pulling us down. Hi Jo, I forgot to mention something, that makes it easier to understand. A wingsuit no matter how big it can be, will never produce itself enough lift to win over gravity and sustain flight, not only a wingsuit but any other glider in the world, doesn't matter if a Glide Ratio of 3:1 or 50:1 like on sailplanes, all of them are gliding down, one slower with better sink rate than another, but all going down. There only 2 ways a wingsuit or any other glider will ever win over gravity and sustain flight. 1- With a motor/turbine. 2- With rising air. As wingsuits usually are gliders ( no motor ) the only way I could see a wingsuit win over gravity is when it became big enough with better sink rate, then rising air will start to have profound effect and be a game changer, but by now wingsuits are bit small for any effective lift by rising air. Together with my first post, I hope you can have an idea of how it works. LaurenLauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gisellemartins 0 #24 November 11, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteSince some continue to doubt that a wingsuit jumper produces lift: www.sciencefriday.comiencefriday.com/video/10/26/2012/plunge-into-the-scof the-of-base-jumping.html Wingtip vortices made visible. Everyone knows that wingsuits produce lift. The question is if a wingsuit can create more lift than the force of gravity pulling us down. A wingsuit will do that when it's sink rate (vertical speed) be less than the speed of the rising air. The speed of the rising air minus your wingsuit sink rate, the result is how much lift your having. The bigger the suit the better the sink rate, the better the sink rate the more chance you have to lifted by rising air. Lift and drag are forces, and forces produce accelerations, not speeds. You are confused. You are the only one confused here, Firstly I'm answering the question from "Jo" member about lift over gravity. You the sky god who claim to know everything is lacking of simple elementary physics as the other poster correctly put it. The explanation I give above is simple physics and it is exactly what happens in the real world of flying and physics applied to flying. Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,881 #25 November 11, 2012 ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites