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medusa

Wing Suits Gain Altitud. PERIOD!

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Dive and flare and you end up same height as you started or lower. Simple physics. The only way up is staying inside an air mass that is going up, that are called thermals or ridge soaring.



I don't think I'll argue it any more, but your definition of "up" is a different than most people.



The definition of "gaining altitude" "Up" is the same for everyone unless the person is dumb. As explained to death here, a dive and flare is not gaining any altitude or going up as you end up lower then where you started.



are you really trying to say that i am not gaining altitude relative to the lowest point in a dive before i flare?
Flock University FWC / ZFlock
B.A.S.E. 1580
Aussie BASE 121

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YES, he did flew up and not because of a dive and flare but because he CLEARLY hit a small thermal.



Because even people arguing if he is climbing or not would agree he is flaring at the end of a steep dive. And a thermal strong enough to produce that kind of climb on a wingsuit would need to be incredibly strong. Very strong winds could produce that kind of lift, but then it wouldn't be a thermal, and I doubt the conditions would be flyable in that location. So, I find laughable to think it is CLEARLY a "small" thermal.



No, you wrong about the the highlighted text in your message, Away from the a ridge/cliff Strong winds will never produce any lift to any glider/wingsuit, unless the wingsuit is ridge soaring, that means a wingsuit would fly very close to a ridge/cliff with strong winds hitting the face of the ridge/cliff it would create an invisible wave lift band where the wingsuit will keep sustained flight, the strong the wind the more change a wingsuit has to stay up. That's what that guys on the video on vimeo was experimenting with lines in the end of the video, they were near a cliff/ridge.

On the video on youtube where the wingsuit gained altitude the guy is clearly no where near enough a ridge or cliff for strong winds to produce an wave lift effect therefore the only thing left to be able to lift him for 5 seconds and several meters is thermal, some thermals are perfectly capable of lifting things far heavier and smaller than a wingsuit pilot. The way he enters in the thermal and the roundish path is clearly the shape of a thermal. I see it every flight when others fly into a thermal.
Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

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Dive and flare and you end up same height as you started or lower. Simple physics. The only way up is staying inside an air mass that is going up, that are called thermals or ridge soaring.



I don't think I'll argue it any more, but your definition of "up" is a different than most people.



The definition of "gaining altitude" "Up" is the same for everyone unless the person is dumb. As explained to death here, a dive and flare is not gaining any altitude or going up as you end up lower then where you started.



are you really trying to say that i am not gaining altitude relative to the lowest point in a dive before i flare?



Absolutely. that's simple physics. Otherwise I would be diving and flaring my hangglider all day long to go up to the clouds. that would be stupid as this is not how it works.

When you dive sharply pick up speed and flare you will have a small momentous gain but will end up lower than the point you started the dive. obviously.
Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

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The definition of "gaining altitude" "Up" is the same for everyone unless the person is dumb.



'Up' is a direction. 'Going up' is movement in that direction. Unless you specified a specific quantity of 'up' beforehand, and you didn't, you have no reason to start insulting people who had the temerity to reply without first reading your mind.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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The definition of "gaining altitude" "Up" is the same for everyone unless the person is dumb.



'Up' is a direction. 'Going up' is movement in that direction. Unless you specified a specific quantity of 'up' beforehand, and you didn't, you have no reason to start insulting people who had the temerity to reply without first reading your mind.



If we start talking about insult, I'm one of the last person you should start talking on this topic, read back what I've been called by others, including you sometime ago. Not that it bothers me, trying to teach/explain air dynamics and meteorology on a forum for people who knows almost nothing about it, could hardly come a good result.

One thing I learned for sure, some wingsuiters on here know almost nothing of something that is vital to make their flights long and better but they do think they already know everything and affirm utterly non sense affirmations.

To answer your "UP" question, I will tell you one more time, on the youtube video "gaining altitude" that we are talking about, the guy gained altitude for 6 seconds by several meters/feet, all that time and height is practicably impossible with a "dive and flare" even using the largest suit available, not mention that his glide path did not show any sharp dive before the he starts to climb. period.
That was clearly a thermal, unless that was CGI computer special effect, which I don't believe. So for me in my humble experience of flying since I was 15 years old, I can safely say that was a thermal.

There were no misunderstanding, some jumpers here stated clear that they are sure it is possible to gain altitude with "strong wind" or "dive and flare" which is totally not possible away from a ridge/cliff, now that some probably done some research and realize how much nonsense they were talking, they are trying to blame my spelling saying they did not understand me, when I'm saying exactly the same thing using the same words since the start of the topic.

Are wingsuiters humble enough to say they were wrong and that they learned something that could help them? I doubt it. But doesn't matter there is goodness in everyone I believe, even the ones who love talking nonsense, I still love them, we all share the same passion, flying! and tomorrow the weather in England is looking good for a good flight :)
Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

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The definition of "gaining altitude" "Up" is the same for everyone unless the person is dumb.



'Up' is a direction. 'Going up' is movement in that direction. Unless you specified a specific quantity of 'up' beforehand, and you didn't, you have no reason to start insulting people who had the temerity to reply without first reading your mind.



If we start talking about insult, I'm one of the last person you should start talking on this topic, read back what I've been called by others, including you sometime ago. Not that it bothers me, trying to teach/explain air dynamics and meteorology on a forum for people who knows almost nothing about it, could hardly come a good result.

Blah blah blah




And you would be wrong.

I have been a glider pilot since 1964 - want to argue experience? I have a PhD in physics - want to argue physics? I teach instrumentation to engineering students - want to argue instrumentation?
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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The definition of "gaining altitude" "Up" is the same for everyone unless the person is dumb.



'Up' is a direction. 'Going up' is movement in that direction. Unless you specified a specific quantity of 'up' beforehand, and you didn't, you have no reason to start insulting people who had the temerity to reply without first reading your mind.



If we start talking about insult, I'm one of the last person you should start talking on this topic, read back what I've been called by others, including you sometime ago. Not that it bothers me, trying to teach/explain air dynamics and meteorology on a forum for people who knows almost nothing about it, could hardly come a good result.

Blah blah blah




And you would be wrong.

I have been a glider pilot since 1964 - want to argue experience? I have a PhD in physics - want to argue physics? I teach instrumentation to engineering students - want to argue instrumentation?



Aren't we having a discussion since the start of these topic? and you proved yourself over and over again to be utter idiot who knows nothing about free flying, meteorology or flying instruments? go back and read this entire topic and see how ridiculous your affirmations are. For me you are trolling or you are the worse pilot or engineer I ever spoke in my life. A glider pilot saying there is no need thermals and all we have to do is dive and flare to gain altitude? you are not a glider pilot, your trolling...
Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

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Have you seen videos of people exiting tailgate aircraft and popping high above the plane? It seems to me that speed = lift in this example, Gaining speed by diving is the same principle. Of course you can't pop up to a point higher than you started the dive, but no one is claiming that. If you took it that way it could be where the disagreement comes in. We are talking about a temporary gain in altitude, not a net gain.
But what do I know?

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Have you seen videos of people exiting tailgate aircraft and popping high above the plane? It seems to me that speed = lift in this example, Gaining speed by diving is the same principle. Of course you can't pop up to a point higher than you started the dive, but no one is claiming that. If you took it that way it could be where the disagreement comes in. We are talking about a temporary gain in altitude, not a net gain.



The tail exit misconception was taking long to be mentioned, is that the last non sense example?

The only reason why you climb when you exit of the plane on a wingsuit is not because high wind speed but because of your air speed, the airplane spilled you out giving you enough energy to climb a few meters, that's the only reason why you flew up, after exit, in normal flight the wind can go to 500km/h and you still will not climb up, so the concept that you and some of your wingsuit friends here claim that for wingsuit climb is necessary more speed, is an utterly non sense misconception, I guess this idea comes because you see the suit flying up after the exit, not everything works as you see, obviously the type of people who never even saw a book about flying/gliding.

For the 20th and hopefully last time I will say again, YES a couple of jumpers here claimed out, loud and with authority ( even calling me stupid) that they know for sure it is possible to gain altitude without thermals just by speeding or diving and flaring, we were NOT talking about momentous small gain in altitude, read the entire topic before posting repetitive non sense posts if possible.
Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

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Not only you are retarded you clearly have emotional problems.
Good luck to you.



I'm not sure if this nasty comment is for me but I guess it is.

No, I'm not retarded, I studied to be a doctor at university, also 3 years Biology, 1 year Agronomic Engineering and done many courses in aerodynamics and design and I've been a falconer since I was 10 years old raising, hunting and flying peregrine falcons and eagles, I'm also a pilot since I was 15, flying many different machines and flying more than 100 miles on paraglider in a single flight. Today I'm 22 years old and I'm quite happy with the knowledge about air and flying machines that I have accumulated during years of study and dedication.

And no I don't have emotional problems, I'm quite happy person, with few but good friends, a boyfriend that is a lovely person and a family to be proud of. Now I do get annoyed here when non sense is a common sense among wingsuit jumpers and when you try to explain to them how things works for their own good and the good development of the sport, they go crazy calling all names in the book just like yourself did now.
Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

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Not only you are retarded you clearly have emotional problems.
Good luck to you.



I'm not sure if this nasty comment is for me but I guess it is.

No, I'm not retarded, I studied to be a doctor at university, also 3 years Biology, 1 year Agronomic Engineering and done many courses in aerodynamics and design and I've been a falconer since I was 10 years old raising, hunting and flying peregrine falcons and eagles, I'm also a pilot since I was 15, flying many different machines and flying more than 100 miles on paraglider in a single flight. Today I'm 22 years old and I'm quite happy with the knowledge about air and flying machines that I have accumulated during years of study and dedication.




Wonderful.

I completed my doctoral degree 19 years before you were born.
And I've been a glider pilot since 26 years before you were born.

And you are still wrong.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Not only you are retarded you clearly have emotional problems.
Good luck to you.



I'm not sure if this nasty comment is for me but I guess it is.

No, I'm not retarded, I studied to be a doctor at university, also 3 years Biology, 1 year Agronomic Engineering and done many courses in aerodynamics and design and I've been a falconer since I was 10 years old raising, hunting and flying peregrine falcons and eagles, I'm also a pilot since I was 15, flying many different machines and flying more than 100 miles on paraglider in a single flight. Today I'm 22 years old and I'm quite happy with the knowledge about air and flying machines that I have accumulated during years of study and dedication.




Wonderful.

I completed my doctoral degree 19 years before you were born.
And I've been a glider pilot since 26 years before you were born.

And you are still wrong.



As I said before, based in the barbarities non sense you said so far on this topic, you are neither of the things you describe above, a glider pilot will never say the non sense affirmations you said, I know because I'm a glider pilot. Or by the numbers you gave me you may be too old and suffering amnesia?
Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

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Based on this thread, you do seem to have a bizarre need to twist words to suit your own purposes, to deliberately create confusion and misunderstanding, perhaps to become the center of attention, instead of using your knowledge to clarify and explain.

If people start to talk about issue A, you start to talk about issue B, and claim that the others are really talking about issue B, and in so doing confusing A with B...

You also offer aerodynamic explanations that are bizarre, or use bizarre meanings of words, even given that English isn't your first language.

(As a private pilot with an aeronautical engineering degree and paragliding and gliding experience, I can follow aerodynamics discussions too.)

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Based on this thread, you do seem to have a bizarre need to twist words to suit your own purposes, to deliberately create confusion and misunderstanding, perhaps to become the center of attention, instead of using your knowledge to clarify and explain.

If people start to talk about issue A, you start to talk about issue B, and claim that the others are really talking about issue B, and in so doing confusing A with B...

You also offer aerodynamic explanations that are bizarre, or use bizarre meanings of words, even given that English isn't your first language.

(As a private pilot with an aeronautical engineering degree and paragliding and gliding experience, I can follow aerodynamics discussions too.)



No did not start talking about A when the subject is B, actually if you read the topic you see that others that are doing it.

yes I do have difficulties to express the right therms in English.

No I don't want to be center of the attentions, actually I don't go giving free flying information in forum, generally I'm invited to do seminars for novices pilots.

I doubt that the Kellend guy here is a glider pilot as he says nonsense.

Could you please tell me which glider model and class do you fly? and which paraglider model do you fly? EN A, B, C, D or Competition class? how many hours do you have and what's your best distance in your glider and PG?

Lastly using your gliding knowledge, could you please tell me if you agree with what some of them said here.

>By Davekepka " Anything will fly provided the winds are strong enough "

>By kellend " any glider can do it starts with an excess of kinetic energy that it can trade for potential energy. No thermal needed"

>By the111 "In other words, it had nothing to do with thermals"

>By vitriol "Very strong winds could produce that kind of lift, but then it wouldn't be a thermal"

So Pchapman do you agree with them that you can gain altitude in your glider/paraglider without thermals, ridge soaring or waves, but just by strong winds or kinetic dive and flares? tell me about it please ;)
Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

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rable rable rable



I know my angles, and I know my perspectives. I am a woodworker, a realistic pencil artist, and a photographer.


AND Still wrong:ph34r::ph34r::ph34r:
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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Thermals has nothing to do with it, the smoke in the video would be rising if that was the case. Also with a decent rate of 50mph+ (as this was a timed speed run) a thermal would need to be rising at approx 90mph to overcome the decent rate and produce a climb as we see in the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Tu5Cyw8xlI&list=UUKIixYOJWw6L5FFYZe7la5Q&index=4&feature=plcp

Here is another angle that shows the technique clearly, its called flaring a wingsuit, if you look closely at the ground you can see a gain in altitude and then he deploys just as the energy is spent by the climb.

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Dive and flare and you end up same height as you started or lower. Simple physics. The only way up is staying inside an air mass that is going up, that are called thermals or ridge soaring.



I don't think I'll argue it any more, but your definition of "up" is a different than most people.



You are quite right. Do not feed the troll. She got no business with WS flying other than collecting some grains of attention here.

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>By vitriol "Very strong winds could produce that kind of lift, but then it wouldn't be a thermal"

So Pchapman do you agree with them that you can gain altitude in your glider/paraglider without thermals, ridge soaring or waves, but just by strong winds or kinetic dive and flares? tell me about it please ;)



Well, what do you think creates ridge soaring or waves, if it is not wind! And no, you don't need to be that close to a ridge to feel the effects of the ascending air. You can feel it up to 3 times or more the height of the ridge or mountain.

Also, being arrogant and rude won't make you right, but could get you banned from the forums.

You seem to think your small experience in aviation makes you an authority on the subject, but you don't realize there are people here with many times the experience you will ever have telling you that you are wrong.

I agree with you that a glider won't climb higher than it's starting altitude after a dive, but then again, nobody disagrees on that. If you don't want to listen to what other people say, what's the point of joining a conversation?

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This thread is most entertaining...i've run out of popcorn so i thought I might chime in.

It seems like the argument hinges on what is the definition of going up.

Most wingsuiters are only talking about the temporary gain in altitude, green line on the graph. This is relative to the altitude immediately before the gain in altitude.

The red line refers to a gain in altitude relative to the exit point, which contrary to what Giselle thinks no one here is trying to argue in favour of.

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>By vitriol "Very strong winds could produce that kind of lift, but then it wouldn't be a thermal"

So Pchapman do you agree with them that you can gain altitude in your glider/paraglider without thermals, ridge soaring or waves, but just by strong winds or kinetic dive and flares? tell me about it please ;)



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Well, what do you think creates ridge soaring or waves, if it is not wind! And no, you don't need to be that close to a ridge to feel the effects of the ascending air. You can feel it up to 3 times or more the height of the ridge or mountain.

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Of course I know about wind strength, ridge soaring or waves, I use them to fly for 8 years. I explained to you how it works a few times after your non sense comments. hypocrisy much?

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Also, being arrogant and rude won't make you right, but could get you banned from the forums.

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I'm not arrogant or rude, I think you should re-read the topic and see the names I've been called by others.

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You seem to think your small experience in aviation makes you an authority on the subject, but you don't realize there are people here with many times the experience you will ever have telling you that you are wrong.

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I'm not Authority but I do know a fair bit of what im talking about. The people you claim to be more experienced than me, could not answer in private messages simple questions about gliding, maybe you should re-check if they are really that experienced as you claim?

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I agree with you that a glider won't climb higher than it's starting altitude after a dive, but then again, nobody disagrees on that. If you don't want to listen to what other people say, what's the point of joining a conversation?



Glad you agree, but I can guarantee for you that a few jumpers here did disagree with it, at the start of these conversation.
Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

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I doubt that the Kellend guy here is a glider pilot as he says nonsense.



And you would be WRONG yet again.

Look it up for yourself



The link you posted leads to an empty profile.

Not to mention that just because you are registered there, that doesn't not make you a good experienced glider pilot. period.
Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

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