bshl 0 #1 December 4, 2003 Can anybody out there educate me as to the differences between the Spectre and the Triathlon? I'm looking to get my first main and have jumped the Triathlon but not the Spectre. I'm jumping just under a 1.1 wing loading. I plan to get a demo canopy but would like to consult the massed wisdom of the DZ.com forums to see if there's anything I should pay particular attention to. Thanks! Blue skies and happy landings! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #2 December 4, 2003 I think if you do a search on both canopies here, you'll find your answers.... Anyway I have a Spectre 135 and I just got a Triathlon 120 I haven't jumped yet (haven't even seen it yet actually, and jumping it could take a while since I'm un-current at the moment). I'll let you know the differences when I've jumped it a couple times I was looking for a Spectre 120 originally but this Tri was so cheap, I thought I'd give it a try. Personally I found the hybrid (CReW modded) Tri 150 I jumped really sluggish compared to my Spectre 150. The only regular Tri I've ever jumped was a 175, way too big for me to comment on that one. Although I loved the Spectre 190 just off student stuff... It seems to me the Spectre is a tad more responsive, but the steering lines on the Tri 150 were too long so not really sure. I think with these 2 canopies, it really just comes down to personal preferences, and personal packing preferences (the older Tri's are made of easier-to-pack ZP). ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #3 December 4, 2003 I've jumped both in comparable sizes, and I own a Tri. They are both great canopies, and have very similar flight and landing characteristics. Advantages of Spectre: 1. Better resale value 2. Opens slightly better 3. Flares slightly better Advantages of a Triathalon: 1. Pack easier (not the ones made in the last year, or new ones, which will be made of true ZP). 2. Less expensive Recommend if you get a Tri to have your rigger sew a pocket on the slider - it will more than make up for the difference in openings.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pkasdorf 0 #4 December 4, 2003 QuoteRecommend if you get a Tri to have your rigger sew a pocket on the slider - it will more than make up for the difference in openings. What for? I have a Tri and it opens slowly and beatifully. What would the pocket on the slider correct? HISPA # 18 POPS # 8757 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #5 December 4, 2003 " Some tri's" Have been known to open hard in some peoples opinion. The pocket is an option if this happens to be the owners opinion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #6 December 4, 2003 Quotenot the ones made in the last year, or new ones, which will be made of true ZP What the hell? So the Gelvenor fabric, that is by the way treaded on both sides, is not true ZP?Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #7 December 4, 2003 QuoteQuotenot the ones made in the last year, or new ones, which will be made of true ZP What the hell? So the Gelvenor fabric, that is by the way treaded on both sides, is not true ZP? You probably know what he means The ZP that most other companies use is way more slippery then the ZP Aerodyne used, and is probably what most people are more familiar with. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dougjumper 0 #8 December 4, 2003 1. Performance Textiles Soar-Coat Zero P. 2. Gelvenor Textiles Silicone based Zero P supposed to make packing a bit easier but seems to pack up a little more Bulky. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rendezvous 0 #9 December 4, 2003 I've never flown a Spectre but I do own a Tri. I've got some 170 plus jumps on it and have never had a problem with it. It's helped me make some good off landings, some of which were tight for the experience level at which they happened. No problem with the packing. Got whacked a bit twice but I'm certain it was my packing that did it. Looking at your experience level I'd say you are still too early in the game to really make out the difference between a Spectre's and a Tri's flying characteristics. The slight differences in glide and responsiveness that you'll notice will probably be more psychological than real. As your piloting skills improve you'll realize that you can fly both these canopies equally well. By the time you reach the point where you understand canopy piloting to some level of competence you'll have many more choices to look into. Right now, go for the one you are getting a good deal on. Ofcourse, controlling the fabric on a Tri while packing is easier but then that shouldn't be much of a deciding factor either. It's about gettig used to it. You can sweat now or later, that's your choice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bch7773 0 #10 December 4, 2003 QuoteI've jumped both in comparable sizes, and I own a Tri. They are both great canopies, and have very similar flight and landing characteristics. Advantages of Spectre: 1. Better resale value 2. Opens slightly better 3. Flares slightly better Advantages of a Triathalon: 1. Pack easier (not the ones made in the last year, or new ones, which will be made of true ZP). 2. Less expensive I've jumped a spectre 190 and 150, and a triathalon 160, and this is almost exactly what i was gonna say too. One thing I can add is that it is very very easy to get a demo from PD. they have a great demo program, make sure to use it. I tried getting a demo from aerodyne a few months ago, and it wasn't easy at all, so I didn't even keep trying. however, maybe they've changed their demo program since then, so give it a try. MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riddler 0 #11 December 4, 2003 QuoteIn Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- not the ones made in the last year, or new ones, which will be made of true ZP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What the hell? So the Gelvenor fabric, that is by the way treaded on both sides, is not true ZP? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You probably know what he means The ZP that most other companies use is way more slippery then the ZP Aerodyne used, and is probably what most people are more familiar with. Yep - while both are "true" ZP, the "south-african ZP" is much easier to pack, which is why I recommend Tris to new students. However, Aerodyne decided that it doesn't last as long as the ZP fabric as other manufacturers, so they have switched to the more slippery kind. I promise I will try to be more careful with my wordings from now on. Also on the openings, there's nothing wrong with the way Tris open. I felt that the Spectre's I jumped were "slightly" better on opening, the difference of which can be made up with a slider pocket, if it's a big deal.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites indyz 1 #12 December 4, 2003 My 2 cents: I've got well over 100 jumps on a Spectre 170, about 20 on a Spectre 150, and 15 on a Triathlon Hybrid 160. The Spectres both opened in about 500 feet. The Tri takes a little bit longer. All three open perfectly acceptable as far as I'm concerned. The Tri seems to have better heading performance (probably because the Spectres are semi-elliptical), but I don't have enough jumps on it to make a really fair assesment yet. Even though the Spectres opened off heading more often, I only had line twists a few times and it flew straight and stable every time. As far as landings go, I would hesitate to say that the Spectres land "better" overall than the Tri. I don't feel that any of them are more difficult to get a soft standup landing out of. The Spectres do get noticibly more surf. It's all a matter of what you want out of your landings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riddler 0 #13 December 4, 2003 Quoteprobably because the Spectres are semi-elliptical I was under the impression that there is slight ellipticity (if that's a word ) in the Tri as well, and that it's hard to find any modern canopy that doesn't have at least some "bend" in it. Can anyone clarify? Would you consider a Tri a true square, or semi-elliptical?Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dragon2 0 #14 December 4, 2003 QuoteQuoteprobably because the Spectres are semi-elliptical I was under the impression that there is slight ellipticity (if that's a word ) in the Tri as well, and that it's hard to find any modern canopy that doesn't have at least some "bend" in it. Can anyone clarify? Would you consider a Tri a true square, or semi-elliptical? AFAIK, the Tri is as square as they get. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites weegegirl 2 #15 December 4, 2003 Quote " Some tri's" Have been known to open hard in some peoples opinion. The pocket is an option if this happens to be the owners opinion. Really? That's strange. I jump a Triathalon, and the only time it ever opened hard is when I packed it incorectly... before I really knew anything about packing. Triathalons, if you ask me, are known for their soft, snively openings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dragon2 0 #16 December 4, 2003 Quote Even though the Spectres opened off heading more often, I only had line twists a few times and it flew straight and stable every time. I don't know what you're doing on opening, but I have a hard time getting my Spectre to have an off heading opening, let alone linetwists. And I tried to get it to twist up on opening before I tried BirdManning with it, but I couldn't. Now while BirdManning, yeah I spun it up a couple times, but it untwists itself while I unzip my arms, great canopy! The only time I got an off heading opening was when I was jumping with small wings (freestyle/sitsuit-ish) and wasn't paying enough attention. I doubt there is any difference regarding on/off heading openings between Tri's and Spectres, maybe your canopy is out of trim or something? ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites indyz 1 #17 December 4, 2003 QuoteI doubt there is any difference regarding on/off heading openings between Tri's and Spectres, maybe your canopy is out of trim or something? The Tri and the Spectre 170 are both in the 500 jump range, both on the original line set. I only have 15 jumps on the Tri so far. Maybe my body position at pull time sucks and I've just been really careful since the Tri is new. I said in my post that I don't have enough jumps on the Tri to draw any firm conclusions yet. I'll know for sure when I have 100 more jumps on the canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riddler 0 #18 December 4, 2003 QuoteThe Tri and the Spectre 170 are both in the 500 jump range Yep - definitely candidates for new line set, if they've not had it. FYI - I think that having a pocket on my slider also gives me fewer off-heading openings. But I can't figure out why that would be? Maybe it's just a perception.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FrogNog 1 #19 December 4, 2003 QuoteQuote " Some tri's" Have been known to open hard in some peoples opinion. The pocket is an option if this happens to be the owners opinion. Really? That's strange. I jump a Triathalon, and the only time it ever opened hard is when I packed it incorectly... before I really knew anything about packing. Triathalons, if you ask me, are known for their soft, snively openings. I've heard some people claim Triathlons have an "affirmative opening" and with all, like, five of my rides on a single Triathlon 190 at about 1.2:1, I would agree with that. No pain at all, but certainly not a snivel. I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if different triathlons, with different line trims, material age and wear, planform sizes, and wingloadings open differently. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites weegegirl 2 #20 December 4, 2003 QuoteQuoteQuote " Some tri's" Have been known to open hard in some peoples opinion. The pocket is an option if this happens to be the owners opinion. Really? That's strange. I jump a Triathalon, and the only time it ever opened hard is when I packed it incorectly... before I really knew anything about packing. Triathalons, if you ask me, are known for their soft, snively openings. I've heard some people claim Triathlons have an "affirmative opening" and with all, like, five of my rides on a single Triathlon 190 at about 1.2:1, I would agree with that. No pain at all, but certainly not a snivel. I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if different triathlons, with different line trims, material age and wear, planform sizes, and wingloadings open differently. Okay, fair enough. I pack MY triathalon to snivel intentionally most of the time... ever since i got whacked and hurt my neck last year. but, yes, different lines/trim/etc = different openings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FrogNog 1 #21 December 4, 2003 Quote Okay, fair enough. I pack MY triathalon to snivel intentionally most of the time... ever since i got whacked and hurt my neck last year. but, yes, different lines/trim/etc = different openings. *snort* I'm still trying to pack so they OPEN! -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites firediver 0 #22 December 4, 2003 I'm a low jump chump, but with 50 or so on my tri 190 at loaded at about 1.1:1, it opens nice and soft for between 500-700 ft of snivelocity Skydiving isn't scary;...but clowns...CLOWNS are scary! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kitof1976 0 #23 December 5, 2003 I jump a Tri 150, but never got to jump a spectre. My 2 cents right now with my low experience is to go with the canopy you get a good deal on. Tri or spectre it's all good... chances are you won't be able to tell the difference but your wallet might Resale value could also be a factor... "We see the world just the way we are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cruzlite 0 #24 December 5, 2003 bshl, I'v got 6 jumps on my model 5.0 TRI 190 loaded at 1.2:1-Opennings have been soft and take about 700ft av. All have been on heading but one. (This pack job was pulled across the floor before putting in the bag) The diferences in opinion about opennings etc, comes from the three models out: Model 3; ez pack zp, model 3 brake set (original connection point locations)(can be updated) Model 4; ez pack zp, model 4 brake set mod (connection point locations moved to improve flair) Model 5.0; new zp, mod 4 connection pts., tail lines lenghthened to improve flight characteristics (in front risers I believe) Also has a huge (colapsable) slider. The TRI is trimmed 2 degrees higher than the Spectre & is not as "ground hungry", and I believe this is why the Spectre "surfs better". Also the Spectre is tappered, the TRI is 'square'. I love my TRI- Control response & flairs are incredable! I have never jumped a Spectre, but am looking forward to it at first opportunity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites aubsmell 0 #25 December 5, 2003 Hey Bshl, My name is Aubrey, I'm the sales manager for the New Aerodyne International, I have been in this position for the past two months, however prior to that I spent two years working in the marketing Department for PD so I have good working knowledge of both designs, please feel free to email me [email protected] if I don't get your questions answered in this message. I'll spend a couple of minutes answering a varity of the issues I see in this thread. About the fabric: There are basically three suppliers of zp type fabric in the world (at least that all the major manufacturers use) 1) Performance Textiles (North Carolina, USA) This uses the Dupont Soar coat silicone blend, that was developed in conjunction with Bill Coe (owner of PD, and brilliant guy), this fabric makes up the majority of PD's fabric and now the majority of Aerodynes as well. I never worked for Icarus so I don't know who provides theirs. 2) Perserverance Mills (England) This would be the second largest provider to both Aerodyne and PD as well. This company's coating is very, very, very simular to the Performance stuff, but it is not Soar coat, Performance has an exclusive for that formula, so how they got the formula they are using is beyond me, reverse engineering, industrial espionage, an under the table note pass to make the prices more competitive, who knows your guess is as good as mine. 3) Gelvenore Textiles (South Africa) their ZP material also has a silicone based coating, however their formula doesn't quite match muster. It is easier to pack, however you loose some lifespan. This fabric is much less expensive, and that is the primary reason it was used in the past, by all the companies that used it, and somewhere along the line all maufactures have used it on and off, and tested it, and still get baches for testing, and Gelvenore continues to strive to make a product that will be universally used by parachute manufacturers. However, that is not the case now, and that is why the Triathlon is only being built with the best possible fabric. I would compair the flight charachteristics as such, and these are opinions, and you see the gammet on this thread, people have totally different experiences on these canopies, I can only offer mine. However I have jumped every size of both numerous times. I've jumped them in every configuration, with nearly ever type of line offered, Spectra, Dacron, Dynema (not HMA or Vectran) Opening: Spectre snivels a little longer. but it is fairly nominal (I've seen people who have sent in Spectres with dynamic damage from hard openings, broken lines, and blown out cells) The Triathlon is generally a very nice opening canopy, 4-700 feet, however again on both canopies, packing is important, as well as body position. (I see people mentioning sewing on a slider pocket, I'm not saying that this is wrong, it does help, but it is like putting a bandaid on gunshot wound, I have seen this little trick used on many canopy designs, I am a skydiver and a customer and if I buy a parachute that is kicking me out of my shoes, I'm sending that SOB back. Trust me the companies involved would rather fix the problem and have a happy customer than have some frankinstine canopy out there) now if you have a canopy that is just ragged out and is out of trim, needs new lines, is so old it feels more like 0-3cfm than ZP and you send it back because it is opening hard and expect a new canopy or a free fix, it usually doesn't work like that, so maybe a pocket on the slider is for you. In my experience, they both open on heading more often than not, if you want the pitch, than I would say the Triathlon is better because it is a rectangle would open on heading more, the Spectre is elipicical, however it is not too radicle so it is not going to have that much of an effect in all honesty. Turning in flight: Toggles, the Tri initiates faster, the Spectre (in the factory setting) has a lot of slack in the break lines. Once the turn is initiated the Spectre actually turns a bit faster, due to the elipse in the trailing edge. Risers, Front risers on the Tri takes you steeper and quicker, look at their history of winning in CRW rotations (they are world champs this year with the Russians) and are just quick on the front risers. Landing: Disclaimer: I can't land either one! I just prefer a nine cell. They are actually both great landing canopies. and I wouldn't put one before the other. The are both very forgiving, and good canopies to master your landings on. I'll kind of wrap things up in a conclusion, directed at you, with 31 jumps. I'd buy either canopy at around 1 to1 and I'd buy a used one on a price to condition ratio. You are probably only going to keep it for your first couple of hundered jumps, and the market is full of good used ones, and one will be just as good to you as the other. Try to get one with a fresh set of lines, also I'd reccomend going through a good gear dealer, who can offer you advise (Dave at Sunshine Factory, JP or Dominic at Square One) Those guys usually have a line on good used gear (if you are all about dollars and cents you may find a better deal, but if you get a lemon sometimes it is nice to have a recourse) -Sorry, had to edit out the sales pitch, Derek- and you can allways give me a call at my office (813) 891 6300 Peace out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. 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rendezvous 0 #9 December 4, 2003 I've never flown a Spectre but I do own a Tri. I've got some 170 plus jumps on it and have never had a problem with it. It's helped me make some good off landings, some of which were tight for the experience level at which they happened. No problem with the packing. Got whacked a bit twice but I'm certain it was my packing that did it. Looking at your experience level I'd say you are still too early in the game to really make out the difference between a Spectre's and a Tri's flying characteristics. The slight differences in glide and responsiveness that you'll notice will probably be more psychological than real. As your piloting skills improve you'll realize that you can fly both these canopies equally well. By the time you reach the point where you understand canopy piloting to some level of competence you'll have many more choices to look into. Right now, go for the one you are getting a good deal on. Ofcourse, controlling the fabric on a Tri while packing is easier but then that shouldn't be much of a deciding factor either. It's about gettig used to it. You can sweat now or later, that's your choice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bch7773 0 #10 December 4, 2003 QuoteI've jumped both in comparable sizes, and I own a Tri. They are both great canopies, and have very similar flight and landing characteristics. Advantages of Spectre: 1. Better resale value 2. Opens slightly better 3. Flares slightly better Advantages of a Triathalon: 1. Pack easier (not the ones made in the last year, or new ones, which will be made of true ZP). 2. Less expensive I've jumped a spectre 190 and 150, and a triathalon 160, and this is almost exactly what i was gonna say too. One thing I can add is that it is very very easy to get a demo from PD. they have a great demo program, make sure to use it. I tried getting a demo from aerodyne a few months ago, and it wasn't easy at all, so I didn't even keep trying. however, maybe they've changed their demo program since then, so give it a try. MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #11 December 4, 2003 QuoteIn Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- not the ones made in the last year, or new ones, which will be made of true ZP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What the hell? So the Gelvenor fabric, that is by the way treaded on both sides, is not true ZP? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You probably know what he means The ZP that most other companies use is way more slippery then the ZP Aerodyne used, and is probably what most people are more familiar with. Yep - while both are "true" ZP, the "south-african ZP" is much easier to pack, which is why I recommend Tris to new students. However, Aerodyne decided that it doesn't last as long as the ZP fabric as other manufacturers, so they have switched to the more slippery kind. I promise I will try to be more careful with my wordings from now on. Also on the openings, there's nothing wrong with the way Tris open. I felt that the Spectre's I jumped were "slightly" better on opening, the difference of which can be made up with a slider pocket, if it's a big deal.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indyz 1 #12 December 4, 2003 My 2 cents: I've got well over 100 jumps on a Spectre 170, about 20 on a Spectre 150, and 15 on a Triathlon Hybrid 160. The Spectres both opened in about 500 feet. The Tri takes a little bit longer. All three open perfectly acceptable as far as I'm concerned. The Tri seems to have better heading performance (probably because the Spectres are semi-elliptical), but I don't have enough jumps on it to make a really fair assesment yet. Even though the Spectres opened off heading more often, I only had line twists a few times and it flew straight and stable every time. As far as landings go, I would hesitate to say that the Spectres land "better" overall than the Tri. I don't feel that any of them are more difficult to get a soft standup landing out of. The Spectres do get noticibly more surf. It's all a matter of what you want out of your landings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #13 December 4, 2003 Quoteprobably because the Spectres are semi-elliptical I was under the impression that there is slight ellipticity (if that's a word ) in the Tri as well, and that it's hard to find any modern canopy that doesn't have at least some "bend" in it. Can anyone clarify? Would you consider a Tri a true square, or semi-elliptical?Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #14 December 4, 2003 QuoteQuoteprobably because the Spectres are semi-elliptical I was under the impression that there is slight ellipticity (if that's a word ) in the Tri as well, and that it's hard to find any modern canopy that doesn't have at least some "bend" in it. Can anyone clarify? Would you consider a Tri a true square, or semi-elliptical? AFAIK, the Tri is as square as they get. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weegegirl 2 #15 December 4, 2003 Quote " Some tri's" Have been known to open hard in some peoples opinion. The pocket is an option if this happens to be the owners opinion. Really? That's strange. I jump a Triathalon, and the only time it ever opened hard is when I packed it incorectly... before I really knew anything about packing. Triathalons, if you ask me, are known for their soft, snively openings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #16 December 4, 2003 Quote Even though the Spectres opened off heading more often, I only had line twists a few times and it flew straight and stable every time. I don't know what you're doing on opening, but I have a hard time getting my Spectre to have an off heading opening, let alone linetwists. And I tried to get it to twist up on opening before I tried BirdManning with it, but I couldn't. Now while BirdManning, yeah I spun it up a couple times, but it untwists itself while I unzip my arms, great canopy! The only time I got an off heading opening was when I was jumping with small wings (freestyle/sitsuit-ish) and wasn't paying enough attention. I doubt there is any difference regarding on/off heading openings between Tri's and Spectres, maybe your canopy is out of trim or something? ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indyz 1 #17 December 4, 2003 QuoteI doubt there is any difference regarding on/off heading openings between Tri's and Spectres, maybe your canopy is out of trim or something? The Tri and the Spectre 170 are both in the 500 jump range, both on the original line set. I only have 15 jumps on the Tri so far. Maybe my body position at pull time sucks and I've just been really careful since the Tri is new. I said in my post that I don't have enough jumps on the Tri to draw any firm conclusions yet. I'll know for sure when I have 100 more jumps on the canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #18 December 4, 2003 QuoteThe Tri and the Spectre 170 are both in the 500 jump range Yep - definitely candidates for new line set, if they've not had it. FYI - I think that having a pocket on my slider also gives me fewer off-heading openings. But I can't figure out why that would be? Maybe it's just a perception.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #19 December 4, 2003 QuoteQuote " Some tri's" Have been known to open hard in some peoples opinion. The pocket is an option if this happens to be the owners opinion. Really? That's strange. I jump a Triathalon, and the only time it ever opened hard is when I packed it incorectly... before I really knew anything about packing. Triathalons, if you ask me, are known for their soft, snively openings. I've heard some people claim Triathlons have an "affirmative opening" and with all, like, five of my rides on a single Triathlon 190 at about 1.2:1, I would agree with that. No pain at all, but certainly not a snivel. I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if different triathlons, with different line trims, material age and wear, planform sizes, and wingloadings open differently. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weegegirl 2 #20 December 4, 2003 QuoteQuoteQuote " Some tri's" Have been known to open hard in some peoples opinion. The pocket is an option if this happens to be the owners opinion. Really? That's strange. I jump a Triathalon, and the only time it ever opened hard is when I packed it incorectly... before I really knew anything about packing. Triathalons, if you ask me, are known for their soft, snively openings. I've heard some people claim Triathlons have an "affirmative opening" and with all, like, five of my rides on a single Triathlon 190 at about 1.2:1, I would agree with that. No pain at all, but certainly not a snivel. I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if different triathlons, with different line trims, material age and wear, planform sizes, and wingloadings open differently. Okay, fair enough. I pack MY triathalon to snivel intentionally most of the time... ever since i got whacked and hurt my neck last year. but, yes, different lines/trim/etc = different openings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #21 December 4, 2003 Quote Okay, fair enough. I pack MY triathalon to snivel intentionally most of the time... ever since i got whacked and hurt my neck last year. but, yes, different lines/trim/etc = different openings. *snort* I'm still trying to pack so they OPEN! -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firediver 0 #22 December 4, 2003 I'm a low jump chump, but with 50 or so on my tri 190 at loaded at about 1.1:1, it opens nice and soft for between 500-700 ft of snivelocity Skydiving isn't scary;...but clowns...CLOWNS are scary! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kitof1976 0 #23 December 5, 2003 I jump a Tri 150, but never got to jump a spectre. My 2 cents right now with my low experience is to go with the canopy you get a good deal on. Tri or spectre it's all good... chances are you won't be able to tell the difference but your wallet might Resale value could also be a factor... "We see the world just the way we are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cruzlite 0 #24 December 5, 2003 bshl, I'v got 6 jumps on my model 5.0 TRI 190 loaded at 1.2:1-Opennings have been soft and take about 700ft av. All have been on heading but one. (This pack job was pulled across the floor before putting in the bag) The diferences in opinion about opennings etc, comes from the three models out: Model 3; ez pack zp, model 3 brake set (original connection point locations)(can be updated) Model 4; ez pack zp, model 4 brake set mod (connection point locations moved to improve flair) Model 5.0; new zp, mod 4 connection pts., tail lines lenghthened to improve flight characteristics (in front risers I believe) Also has a huge (colapsable) slider. The TRI is trimmed 2 degrees higher than the Spectre & is not as "ground hungry", and I believe this is why the Spectre "surfs better". Also the Spectre is tappered, the TRI is 'square'. I love my TRI- Control response & flairs are incredable! I have never jumped a Spectre, but am looking forward to it at first opportunity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aubsmell 0 #25 December 5, 2003 Hey Bshl, My name is Aubrey, I'm the sales manager for the New Aerodyne International, I have been in this position for the past two months, however prior to that I spent two years working in the marketing Department for PD so I have good working knowledge of both designs, please feel free to email me [email protected] if I don't get your questions answered in this message. I'll spend a couple of minutes answering a varity of the issues I see in this thread. About the fabric: There are basically three suppliers of zp type fabric in the world (at least that all the major manufacturers use) 1) Performance Textiles (North Carolina, USA) This uses the Dupont Soar coat silicone blend, that was developed in conjunction with Bill Coe (owner of PD, and brilliant guy), this fabric makes up the majority of PD's fabric and now the majority of Aerodynes as well. I never worked for Icarus so I don't know who provides theirs. 2) Perserverance Mills (England) This would be the second largest provider to both Aerodyne and PD as well. This company's coating is very, very, very simular to the Performance stuff, but it is not Soar coat, Performance has an exclusive for that formula, so how they got the formula they are using is beyond me, reverse engineering, industrial espionage, an under the table note pass to make the prices more competitive, who knows your guess is as good as mine. 3) Gelvenore Textiles (South Africa) their ZP material also has a silicone based coating, however their formula doesn't quite match muster. It is easier to pack, however you loose some lifespan. This fabric is much less expensive, and that is the primary reason it was used in the past, by all the companies that used it, and somewhere along the line all maufactures have used it on and off, and tested it, and still get baches for testing, and Gelvenore continues to strive to make a product that will be universally used by parachute manufacturers. However, that is not the case now, and that is why the Triathlon is only being built with the best possible fabric. I would compair the flight charachteristics as such, and these are opinions, and you see the gammet on this thread, people have totally different experiences on these canopies, I can only offer mine. However I have jumped every size of both numerous times. I've jumped them in every configuration, with nearly ever type of line offered, Spectra, Dacron, Dynema (not HMA or Vectran) Opening: Spectre snivels a little longer. but it is fairly nominal (I've seen people who have sent in Spectres with dynamic damage from hard openings, broken lines, and blown out cells) The Triathlon is generally a very nice opening canopy, 4-700 feet, however again on both canopies, packing is important, as well as body position. (I see people mentioning sewing on a slider pocket, I'm not saying that this is wrong, it does help, but it is like putting a bandaid on gunshot wound, I have seen this little trick used on many canopy designs, I am a skydiver and a customer and if I buy a parachute that is kicking me out of my shoes, I'm sending that SOB back. Trust me the companies involved would rather fix the problem and have a happy customer than have some frankinstine canopy out there) now if you have a canopy that is just ragged out and is out of trim, needs new lines, is so old it feels more like 0-3cfm than ZP and you send it back because it is opening hard and expect a new canopy or a free fix, it usually doesn't work like that, so maybe a pocket on the slider is for you. In my experience, they both open on heading more often than not, if you want the pitch, than I would say the Triathlon is better because it is a rectangle would open on heading more, the Spectre is elipicical, however it is not too radicle so it is not going to have that much of an effect in all honesty. Turning in flight: Toggles, the Tri initiates faster, the Spectre (in the factory setting) has a lot of slack in the break lines. Once the turn is initiated the Spectre actually turns a bit faster, due to the elipse in the trailing edge. Risers, Front risers on the Tri takes you steeper and quicker, look at their history of winning in CRW rotations (they are world champs this year with the Russians) and are just quick on the front risers. Landing: Disclaimer: I can't land either one! I just prefer a nine cell. They are actually both great landing canopies. and I wouldn't put one before the other. The are both very forgiving, and good canopies to master your landings on. I'll kind of wrap things up in a conclusion, directed at you, with 31 jumps. I'd buy either canopy at around 1 to1 and I'd buy a used one on a price to condition ratio. You are probably only going to keep it for your first couple of hundered jumps, and the market is full of good used ones, and one will be just as good to you as the other. Try to get one with a fresh set of lines, also I'd reccomend going through a good gear dealer, who can offer you advise (Dave at Sunshine Factory, JP or Dominic at Square One) Those guys usually have a line on good used gear (if you are all about dollars and cents you may find a better deal, but if you get a lemon sometimes it is nice to have a recourse) -Sorry, had to edit out the sales pitch, Derek- and you can allways give me a call at my office (813) 891 6300 Peace out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
