BIRDDOCTOR 0 #1 May 14, 2012 Martijn put some "GO" in the Venom. Nice :) http://paralog.net/ppc/showtrack.php?trackid=12849Base# 1638 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #2 May 14, 2012 He's only had the suit for half a dozen jumps so far, and has been upping his scores by 2/3 seconds every single jump, and went from 65 second scores to 80+ Ranking #2 in time and #3 in distance. Sure kicking ass with the new Venom!JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedWingsuits 0 #3 May 14, 2012 I don't understand why the rankings don't separate events and personal attempts. Why bother to control the GPS devices to prevent tampering at an event but let people log their own stuff in a world ranking?Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #4 May 14, 2012 QuoteI don't understand why the rankings don't separate events and personal attempts. Why bother to control the GPS devices to prevent tampering at an event but let people log their own stuff in a world ranking? Because it's important to reduce cheating where possible. There are some folks out there that will do everything they can to cheat the system. Just because they can, doesn't mean that competitions should give up on quelling it where possible. Next comp, we have a much better way to deal with it, I think. You'll also be allowed to use your own FS. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrCat 0 #5 May 14, 2012 QuoteQuoteI don't understand why the rankings don't separate events and personal attempts. Why bother to control the GPS devices to prevent tampering at an event but let people log their own stuff in a world ranking? Because it's important to reduce cheating where possible. There are some folks out there that will do everything they can to cheat the system. Just because they can, doesn't mean that competitions should give up on quelling it where possible. Next comp, we have a much better way to deal with it, I think. You'll also be allowed to use your own FS. I took WWS's post to mean why don't they split the results into competition (validated) rankings and non-competition (un-validated) rankings.Jump more, post less. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #6 May 14, 2012 Quote I took WWS's post to mean why don't they split the results into competition (validated) rankings and non-competition (un-validated) rankings. They already are split off into comps yetthe comp results also feed the overall. You can look at individual comps. The comps do what they can to keep the playing field level as best as possible, which isn't entirely fair in the grand scheme (when talking about the potential for cheating the system). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedWingsuits 0 #7 May 14, 2012 Right, I don't think the worldwide rankings should include non-event entries...they should be filtered out into a different list. It's just not apples to apples is all I am saying. It's a great personal accomplishment and it's fair to share...just on a different ranking list I think. Yes....this is mostly because I would be higher up on the list if that were the case but also I would expect if I suddenly appeared at the top with a huge distance it would be suspicious no? Events are hard work to be at...you have to put aside time and money and you don't always get your best performance but it counts a lot more than someone who gets a good run in their own back yard on any given saturday. Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #8 May 14, 2012 Quote Events are hard work to be at...you have to put aside time and money and you don't always get your best performance but it counts a lot more than someone who gets a good run in their own back yard on any given saturday. This is so true. Aside from the effort, you're up against the pressure of real-time results, everyone in the same wind, and it's a collective effort. Moreover, it's a real competition where everyone is in the same 'fishbowl' so to speak. And... it's inspiring to see everyone putting it on the line vs the "I'm the greatest in the world" people that never show up to put up. Looking forward to the next Performance Cup in November. We have repeaters on the planes and a request for sats to stay active in the area for the event. Hope to see you there kickin' azz again, Simon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #9 May 15, 2012 Martijn already scored over 60 seconds in his P2, in a competition...though tampering with a GPS may be a big thing on some peoples mind, rest assured he is capable of the scores he uploaded. And with less than a dozen jumps on the suit..probably will do better in time as well. That aside, scores are split of into official competition scores as well. Time aside, scores for distance and speed are (even within 'official' competition) very much victim of the wind conditions. Also between events. A 2.0 glide set in a certain suit on one event, with the same performance, may lead to a 2.3 score elsewhere. Similar to what's done here, it would be worth noting that when comp scores are posted as advertising for 'actual performance' of a suit. Wind, Pilot Skill, Suit Design are three big factors. Similar to swooping canopies. If you fear cheating with technologie, come to an acrobatic competition instead..JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #10 May 15, 2012 QuoteQuote We have ... a request for sats to stay active in the area for the event. Wow! How does that work? And how does one go about requesting it and getting is actioned?Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites imsparticus 0 #11 May 15, 2012 i wish that they had a separate league for sustained glide included exit or 100 foot below exit for 1500-2000metres or even the whole jump. would show the suits realistic glide. i would be interested in seeing those numbers more diving turns it into a swoop comp. ide really love to know max glide min sink airspeed get a little aispeed indicator so i know where i was at haha thaughts? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hjumper33 0 #12 May 15, 2012 Then the planes speed would come into play. The only true measure of glide is and will always be people base jumping from the same exit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wyrdrocks 0 #13 May 15, 2012 Hate to sidetrack the thread, but how about we start scheduling performance comps during big ballooning events. Dead air starts will hopefully eliminate some of the variables, and we can get down to real flying, and truer performance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mccordia 73 #14 May 16, 2012 QuoteDead air starts will hopefully eliminate some of the variables, and we can get down to real flying, and truer performance. Or we just that the performance competitions are like sailing, and wind is just one of many variables we just have to deal with. Sustained flight performance, and performance within a certain altitude window with preceding flare are two different things. Its not that hard a thing to accept, and just continue having fun, and brag about the results...be it due to flare, wind, weight, build, suit or pilot skill or all of the above combined...JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,621 #15 May 16, 2012 QuoteThen the planes speed would come into play. The only true measure of glide is and will always be people base jumping from the same exit. Plane's speed is controlled in RW at US Nationals (since teams turn points "on the hill"). Why can't it be controlled here?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites imsparticus 0 #16 May 17, 2012 QuoteThen the planes speed would come into play. The only true measure of glide is and will always be people base jumping from the same exit. yes yes base jumpers will always be the elite pinacle of human flight the one true disipline. Anywho for those with an open mind set a max aircraft speed to be eigable for the comp plus 100 feet after exit should eliminate aircraft speed and diving advantage. I would seriously like it to be added to the comp so just putting it out there. The more dimensions and depth the better i think might even add a bit more fitness and stamina to wingsuiting. JOKE. Q.how do you know if there is a base jumper contributing to a thread on dz.com. A. He will tell you heheheheheheh Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DSE 3 #17 May 17, 2012 Quote yes yes base jumpers will always be the elite pinacle of human flight the one true disipline. Anywho for those with an open mind set a max aircraft speed to be eigable for the comp plus 100 feet after exit should eliminate aircraft speed and diving advantage. I would seriously like it to be added to the comp so just putting it out there. The more dimensions and depth the better i think might even add a bit more fitness and stamina to wingsuiting. 100' after exit isn't really practical, but it's on the right track, IMO. This is why we limited the Skydive Elsinore Performance Cup exits to 11,000. We discussed a fixed aircraft speed, but didn't implement it. I honestly can't recall what the reason was. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites imsparticus 0 #18 May 17, 2012 im thinking more you clear the airplane and max out just that everything from exit till 100ft is not include in the run to negate tail exits and exit speeds and discorage people from flying before they have cleared the plane etc. or whatever the rules have to be so the strategy is to max out and stay maxed out for X vertical distance. you could even have 2 different primanry distances say 10k long distance for the 14k exits and 6k sprint for the cessna dz,s. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ifell 0 #19 May 17, 2012 It's not like there is prize money or anything, I think this is meant to be fun for everyone! How the hell is aircraft speed relevant 3 000' after exit? The window is there, fly your ass off and if you don't score in the top 3 try again. I think performance flying is fun mostly because I can compete against myself otherwise what is the point of getting the best score? Are you gonna give it up when you beat everyone on that list? The list is fun and helps to push people to fly better Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DSE 3 #20 May 17, 2012 Quoteim thinking more you clear the airplane and max out just that everything from exit till 100ft is not include in the run to negate tail exits and exit speeds and discorage people from flying before they have cleared the plane etc. or whatever the rules have to be so the strategy is to max out and stay maxed out for X vertical distance. you could even have 2 different primanry distances say 10k long distance for the 14k exits and 6k sprint for the cessna dz,s. The competition doesn't include that time anyway; the gate is at 3km. So, if the aircraft is at 3.3km, it doesn't help (nor hurt) the competitor to "get flying before they've cleared the plane." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites imsparticus 0 #21 May 17, 2012 You dont fly like hell you dive to 3k then flair out the higher you exit above 3k the more advantageous the glide numbers are unrealistic those that choose not to dive dont look compeditive i dont want to take away from the current format just would like to see a new format addrd that is more geared towards max sustainable glide. Looks like it doesnt interest anyone so ill shut up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NoValidTitle 0 #22 May 18, 2012 Can anyone share how the performance comps are judged/scored? ThanksNothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cpoxon 0 #23 May 18, 2012 QuoteCan anyone share how the performance comps are judged/scored? Thanks http://www.paralog.net/ppc/Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites matt002 0 #24 May 18, 2012 A wingsuit in a dive will have a terminal velocity, the same as a canopy in a dive or even a person in freefall, provided the exit altitude is sufficiently high for a suit to reach its terminal velocity before flaring out before the gate, then small variations in exit altitude will not have any effect on the results. Like in CP comps, the ability to dive hard and maintain the speed through the measured distance will be key. I've always thought wingsuiting has far more in common with Canopy piloting than any freefall discipline, interesting now to see wingsuits flying alongside small canopies and that wingsuit performance comps are basically swoop comps without a pond! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hjumper33 0 #25 May 18, 2012 No, not saying its better, which I will go ahead and say now though, but it just makes the most sense and a easy and reliable way to measure glide. Wind conditions will vary slightly, but no way as much as at 13k where you can have a 100mph wind in any direction. Youd need the same aircraft so everyone could pop up the same, the same upper wind speed which would be pretty much impossible to do. The comps are fun and its cool to look at glide, but in no way is it a real world measure. They dont let you get a flying start before they time your 100 meters at the olympics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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imsparticus 0 #11 May 15, 2012 i wish that they had a separate league for sustained glide included exit or 100 foot below exit for 1500-2000metres or even the whole jump. would show the suits realistic glide. i would be interested in seeing those numbers more diving turns it into a swoop comp. ide really love to know max glide min sink airspeed get a little aispeed indicator so i know where i was at haha thaughts? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hjumper33 0 #12 May 15, 2012 Then the planes speed would come into play. The only true measure of glide is and will always be people base jumping from the same exit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wyrdrocks 0 #13 May 15, 2012 Hate to sidetrack the thread, but how about we start scheduling performance comps during big ballooning events. Dead air starts will hopefully eliminate some of the variables, and we can get down to real flying, and truer performance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #14 May 16, 2012 QuoteDead air starts will hopefully eliminate some of the variables, and we can get down to real flying, and truer performance. Or we just that the performance competitions are like sailing, and wind is just one of many variables we just have to deal with. Sustained flight performance, and performance within a certain altitude window with preceding flare are two different things. Its not that hard a thing to accept, and just continue having fun, and brag about the results...be it due to flare, wind, weight, build, suit or pilot skill or all of the above combined...JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,621 #15 May 16, 2012 QuoteThen the planes speed would come into play. The only true measure of glide is and will always be people base jumping from the same exit. Plane's speed is controlled in RW at US Nationals (since teams turn points "on the hill"). Why can't it be controlled here?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
imsparticus 0 #16 May 17, 2012 QuoteThen the planes speed would come into play. The only true measure of glide is and will always be people base jumping from the same exit. yes yes base jumpers will always be the elite pinacle of human flight the one true disipline. Anywho for those with an open mind set a max aircraft speed to be eigable for the comp plus 100 feet after exit should eliminate aircraft speed and diving advantage. I would seriously like it to be added to the comp so just putting it out there. The more dimensions and depth the better i think might even add a bit more fitness and stamina to wingsuiting. JOKE. Q.how do you know if there is a base jumper contributing to a thread on dz.com. A. He will tell you heheheheheheh Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #17 May 17, 2012 Quote yes yes base jumpers will always be the elite pinacle of human flight the one true disipline. Anywho for those with an open mind set a max aircraft speed to be eigable for the comp plus 100 feet after exit should eliminate aircraft speed and diving advantage. I would seriously like it to be added to the comp so just putting it out there. The more dimensions and depth the better i think might even add a bit more fitness and stamina to wingsuiting. 100' after exit isn't really practical, but it's on the right track, IMO. This is why we limited the Skydive Elsinore Performance Cup exits to 11,000. We discussed a fixed aircraft speed, but didn't implement it. I honestly can't recall what the reason was. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
imsparticus 0 #18 May 17, 2012 im thinking more you clear the airplane and max out just that everything from exit till 100ft is not include in the run to negate tail exits and exit speeds and discorage people from flying before they have cleared the plane etc. or whatever the rules have to be so the strategy is to max out and stay maxed out for X vertical distance. you could even have 2 different primanry distances say 10k long distance for the 14k exits and 6k sprint for the cessna dz,s. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ifell 0 #19 May 17, 2012 It's not like there is prize money or anything, I think this is meant to be fun for everyone! How the hell is aircraft speed relevant 3 000' after exit? The window is there, fly your ass off and if you don't score in the top 3 try again. I think performance flying is fun mostly because I can compete against myself otherwise what is the point of getting the best score? Are you gonna give it up when you beat everyone on that list? The list is fun and helps to push people to fly better Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #20 May 17, 2012 Quoteim thinking more you clear the airplane and max out just that everything from exit till 100ft is not include in the run to negate tail exits and exit speeds and discorage people from flying before they have cleared the plane etc. or whatever the rules have to be so the strategy is to max out and stay maxed out for X vertical distance. you could even have 2 different primanry distances say 10k long distance for the 14k exits and 6k sprint for the cessna dz,s. The competition doesn't include that time anyway; the gate is at 3km. So, if the aircraft is at 3.3km, it doesn't help (nor hurt) the competitor to "get flying before they've cleared the plane." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
imsparticus 0 #21 May 17, 2012 You dont fly like hell you dive to 3k then flair out the higher you exit above 3k the more advantageous the glide numbers are unrealistic those that choose not to dive dont look compeditive i dont want to take away from the current format just would like to see a new format addrd that is more geared towards max sustainable glide. Looks like it doesnt interest anyone so ill shut up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoValidTitle 0 #22 May 18, 2012 Can anyone share how the performance comps are judged/scored? ThanksNothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #23 May 18, 2012 QuoteCan anyone share how the performance comps are judged/scored? Thanks http://www.paralog.net/ppc/Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matt002 0 #24 May 18, 2012 A wingsuit in a dive will have a terminal velocity, the same as a canopy in a dive or even a person in freefall, provided the exit altitude is sufficiently high for a suit to reach its terminal velocity before flaring out before the gate, then small variations in exit altitude will not have any effect on the results. Like in CP comps, the ability to dive hard and maintain the speed through the measured distance will be key. I've always thought wingsuiting has far more in common with Canopy piloting than any freefall discipline, interesting now to see wingsuits flying alongside small canopies and that wingsuit performance comps are basically swoop comps without a pond! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hjumper33 0 #25 May 18, 2012 No, not saying its better, which I will go ahead and say now though, but it just makes the most sense and a easy and reliable way to measure glide. Wind conditions will vary slightly, but no way as much as at 13k where you can have a 100mph wind in any direction. Youd need the same aircraft so everyone could pop up the same, the same upper wind speed which would be pretty much impossible to do. The comps are fun and its cool to look at glide, but in no way is it a real world measure. They dont let you get a flying start before they time your 100 meters at the olympics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
