skydiverkeith 1 #1 March 5, 2012 Woohoo! I've got a shiny new Apache XRW on the way. I guess the old Apache already isn't the largest suit on the market... P.S. Bite me safety Nazis!Blue skies, Keith Medlock Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 137 #3 March 6, 2012 Does that version of the suit have the 3ring circus, the breakaway and reserve handles exposed ? Or are they concealed ?scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dirtbox 0 #4 March 6, 2012 nope - Rob Harris has had a mod done to his and now everything is outboard but otherwise the others just have the little loops on the outside of the suit connected to a rapid link which mates with the exposed park of the cable between the handles and hard housing inside the suit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverkeith 1 #5 March 6, 2012 Quotenope - Rob Harris has had a mod done to his and now everything is outboard but otherwise the others just have the little loops on the outside of the suit connected to a rapid link which mates with the exposed park of the cable between the handles and hard housing inside the suit. Yep, what he said...Blue skies, Keith Medlock Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 724 #6 March 6, 2012 and yet still, some people believe there is nothing inherently different about wingsuiting that should not require any specialized training..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverkeith 1 #7 March 6, 2012 Quote and yet still, some people believe there is nothing inherently different about wingsuiting that should not require any specialized training..... !!! Who believes this? I wouldn't want to fly with them... Blue skies, Keith Medlock Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 724 #8 March 6, 2012 The whole "no need for a wingsuit instructor rating because it's just another jump and you're already licensed and there's nothing different about the gear" people! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverkeith 1 #9 March 6, 2012 Quote The whole "no need for a wingsuit instructor rating because it's just another jump and you're already licensed and there's nothing different about the gear" people! On that subject, there was a guy from the USPA board of directors out at Skydive Dallas last weekend seeking input and recommendations on the new wingsuit coach rating. Don't know what the hell he was doing at our dropzone. Our flock is pitiful!Blue skies, Keith Medlock Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 724 #10 March 6, 2012 We have to appreciate that the USPA is actively seeking neutral opinions from the non-pissing match folks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #11 March 6, 2012 Quote and yet still, some people believe there is nothing inherently different about wingsuiting that should not require any specialized training..... Be real, the Apache isn't just another wingsuit. Nobody is claiming it is and since the design changes as new models come out every Apache pilot should consider themselves a test jumper and bring that kind of experience before flying. Quote The whole "no need for a wingsuit instructor rating because it's just another jump and you're already licensed and there's nothing different about the gear" people! There are probably very few wingsuit instructors that have enough knowledge of the Apache to be of any real assistance. A better resource would be individuals who actually fly the suits in this case mostly BASE jumpers not somebody who has one hanging in a team room un jumped. You are using the Apache's extreme example of wingsuit complexity and rigging to sell the wingsuit instructor coach rating to a would be new flyer who would never fly the suit to begin with.... you got to be smarter than that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 724 #12 March 6, 2012 Agreed. But you have stated the need for individualized training based on the gear. Hence the need for proper structured training. We've had enough foolish fatalities. Sorry to sidetrack this thread....that was not my intent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverkeith 1 #13 March 6, 2012 Quote Agreed. But you have stated the need for individualized training based on the gear. Hence the need for proper structured training. We've had enough foolish fatalities. Sorry to sidetrack this thread....that was not my intent. LOL! I wasn't aware this thread was actually about anything in particular. I just started it because I was excited about my new Apache XRW. Truth be told, someone should just delete the damn thing! Blue skies, Keith Medlock Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 137 #14 March 6, 2012 you still didn't explain the difference between Apache and Apache XRWscissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #15 March 6, 2012 Quote Agreed. But you have stated the need for individualized training based on the gear. Hence the need for proper structured training. We've had enough foolish fatalities. Sorry to sidetrack this thread....that was not my intent. Negative I never stated training of any kind. The Apache design is an evolution but the factory never has control of the choice and design of rig to be used ( integrated really) with the suit. Hence every user now becomes a rigger and a test jumper of their combination of wingsuit + rig + environment for use. You are not going to find that in any course, structured or otherwise. Suits like this require a lot of respect, experience and knowledge. I doubt they are the magic ticket to doing XRW. These fall into the category not for everyone. Regular " entry level" wingsuits are much simpler and easy to use. I could teach 10 year olds how to use them all day long...... or they can read a manual and follow a few few basic rules to stay safe. This, BTW, is the target audience for the wingsuit instructor rating not big suit jumpers. This is off topic for an Apache thread but we train people to do CREW about once a month. The gear is VERY specialized. There are things you can't do with it. Like take it to terminal. You will use ALL of your controls and some others you don't see on regular gear like riser trim tabs or 2 to 1 handles. The deployment system can be a throwout, a pullout or combination of the two. The thing might be stowed in a bag or a tail pocket. Bottom line the gear is special. The emergency procedures are no longer pull right, pull silver on the left. The EPs are now like 12 pages long depending on if you are wrappedbefore you can cut away. As per the BSRs we take up jumpers with a minimum of 50 jumps and give them the best damn canopy control course they will ever get. Each training session is different it is taylored to the group. You don't always get all 12 pages. Nobody is crying to BOD that we need more structured training from only certified instructors, Yet everything we teach is so much more complex than Anything wingsuit first flight related. Is it dangerous ? oh hell yeah. In regards to wingsuit fatalities or incidents, without doing a proper root cause analysis the knee jerk reaction around here is to say better training- better trainers unless, as an example when its someone like Steve H, oh he just had a bad day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdctlc 0 #16 March 6, 2012 Quoteyou still didn't explain the difference between Apache and Apache XRW Tony posted this on a FB thread that had a picture of a Apache XRW suit: "it has 4" less arm sweep, 3" higher arm ribs, a cambered airfoil and the X Bird leg, gives it more range" Scott C."He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverkeith 1 #17 March 6, 2012 QuoteQuoteyou still didn't explain the difference between Apache and Apache XRW Tony posted this on a FB thread that had a picture of a Apache XRW suit: "it has 4" less arm sweep, 3" higher arm ribs, a cambered airfoil and the X Bird leg, gives it more range" Scott C. Yep, and comes with the remote handles...Blue skies, Keith Medlock Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
granpasc 0 #18 March 6, 2012 Quoteyou still didn't explain the difference between Apache and Apache XRW Protect shins integrated ? http://fearlessmma.com/tag/shin-guards/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Migs 0 #19 March 6, 2012 Rock, paper, scissors, wingsuit... shin guards or not, rock will always beat wingsuit! LOL ;0)~~Migs~ On Facebook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pattersd 0 #20 March 6, 2012 I'm pretty sure scissors will win in a battle with a wingsuit too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverkeith 1 #21 March 7, 2012 QuoteI'm pretty sure scissors will win in a battle with a wingsuit too. Not the plastic kiddie ones. They don't cut ripstop for shit!Blue skies, Keith Medlock Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
medusa 0 #22 March 24, 2012 We just flew the new Apache XRW and a New Prototype still in R&D. We flew them with an JVX 63 loaded at 3.42 with no ratches. We have flown successfully an Xbird-Xwing-Apache-X2 with this configuration in the past. Both of the suits had no issues staying with the canopy even when in brakes. The canopy pilot unstow the breaks and the two suits had tons of range over the canopy. The canopy pilot went to half breaks and we where able to stay with him. We did a second jump with a Velo 71 loaded at 3.0 with no ratches. Both of the suits where able to stay with the canopy even when in breaks. The two suits where able to fly and had some range to play with it. In general, the two suits where pretty stable and had amazing pressurization and effortless pressurization even at really slow air speeds. We will continue testing the suits and Ill keep posting what we discover. We will take the suits down to a wing loading of 2.8 and even 2.6. Cya JFMedusa Get Killed or Die Trying! Patent pending ATFK15456 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
medusa 0 #23 March 24, 2012 QuoteQuoteyou still didn't explain the difference between Apache and Apache XRW Tony posted this on a FB thread that had a picture of a Apache XRW suit: "it has 4" less arm sweep, 3" higher arm ribs, a cambered airfoil and the X Bird leg, gives it more range" Scott C. The x bird leg wing gives it better horizontal speed when flying with canopys but still has amazing apache speed when flying by itself. The intake has change and it provide amazing pressurization. The side laterals are bigger giving it more pop. The trailing edge of the arm wing has been extended.Medusa Get Killed or Die Trying! Patent pending ATFK15456 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rockhopper 0 #24 March 25, 2012 How did you think the XRW handles and feels at the slower speeds with canopies? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
medusa 0 #25 March 25, 2012 It seem pretty stable and responsive at slow airspeeds. Anyway, I have only done two jumps on it so is to early to form a concrete opinion.Medusa Get Killed or Die Trying! Patent pending ATFK15456 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
