omnia 0 #51 January 29, 2012 Spot: You said: Quote Sorry, I don't buy it. Specifically name the S&TA, I/E, or Instructors who told you this. Send me a PM, I'll talk to them privately if you wish. in reference to Simon saying that he had people tell him that wingsuit coach jump do not count to fulfill the requirement. But, then you later said, that you yourself do not qualify them and would not sign off on them. Why, then, do you doubt that Simon was told this by others? Second, why did you offer to talk to these people privately? What would you discuss? How much you agree with them on not counting wingsuit coach jumps? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedWingsuits 0 #52 January 29, 2012 QuoteQuoteDo Wingsuit coach jumps count towards Coach rating renewal? You want credit for a "coach" jump when you jump with a D license holder? If it is in a discipline they have lesser experience in then....yes.Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydave114 0 #53 January 29, 2012 QuoteThe US approach of relying on self regulation, trusting DZOs and the responsible people of the community works well. The attempt to change this is an insult to us all. Please do not make the US look French. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydave114 0 #54 January 29, 2012 Quote If it is in a discipline they have lesser experience in then....yes. I have ~3000 jumps. If I do a 2-way with you, does that count as a coach jump?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedWingsuits 0 #55 January 29, 2012 Quote Quote If it is in a discipline they have lesser experience in then....yes. I have ~3000 jumps. If I do a 2-way with you, does that count as a coach jump?? If you feel the knowledge is valuable then yes I do. I know you have a lot of jumps but I bet there are still disciplines you have yet to learn everything about.Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #56 January 29, 2012 You're mixing up your "Coaches". A USPA Coach is a FJC Assitant Instructor. Those Duties are outlined in the IRM, the ISP, and SIM. Each level, to include re-currency, says Instructor or Coach inregards to who may conduct the Jump and Instruction. These are USPA titles. For Wing Suit Instruction you are not Teaching a FJC, so your "Coaching" in a follow on discipline, you have a high degree of responsibility, but not near as much as a FJC Instructor/Coach. Your FFC Student KNOWS how to deal with most of the issues they would encounter in SKydiving , minus the wing suit, and has either dealt with issues it or been trained to deal with issues. So again, No, your FFC is not the same, any I/E who signed off on those jumps as counting, should lose their I/E. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #57 January 29, 2012 QuoteSpot: You said: Quote Sorry, I don't buy it. Specifically name the S&TA, I/E, or Instructors who told you this. Send me a PM, I'll talk to them privately if you wish. in reference to Simon saying that he had people tell him that wingsuit coach jump do not count to fulfill the requirement. But, then you later said, that you yourself do not qualify them and would not sign off on them. Why, then, do you doubt that Simon was told this by others? Second, why did you offer to talk to these people privately? What would you discuss? How much you agree with them on not counting wingsuit coach jumps? Why should a discussion on personal perspective be public? Believe it or not, a great deal transpires in the real world, over phone and in person, that doesn't appear here on DZ.com. I'd like their input on why they feel they shouldn't count, just as I asked for input from an I/E that has counted the jumps in the past. Or maybe I'd just like to speak with other I/E's about wingsuiting in general. How people perceive various information is often 180 degrees apart, so the more opinions, the more points of consideration there are, no? I'd also like to better understand S&TA, I/E, Instructor shopping. A lot of that seems to transpire, and understanding more positions provides conversational fodder for IERC's and Standardization meetings. Instructor-shopping is what got Dan Kulpa dead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedWingsuits 0 #58 January 29, 2012 I would still like to see the official supporting material that clarifies what a coach jump is. I am getting lots of opinions but I am the only one that has provided a specific section of the IRM. Where can I find something that says "A coaching jump is defined as...". Additionaly, look at the last words for the rating sign off...."and jumps with licensed skydivers.". http://www.uspa.org/Portals/0/Downloads/Form_CoachProficiencyCard.pdfSummer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #59 January 29, 2012 "and conduct recurrency training and jumps with licensed skydivers." Don't leave out the important part, Recurrency, to make your point. It then makes it subject. The info is there, it is just not the answer you want. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,619 #60 January 29, 2012 I can see merit in a WS instructional rating recognized by USPA. I don't see much connection between the objectives of a USPA coach rating and those of wingsuit training, and don't see why one should be a prerequisite for obtaining or renewing the other in any way. We don't expect college football coaches to pass the same tests that kindergarten teachers have to pass, and vice versa.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedWingsuits 0 #61 January 29, 2012 QuoteI can see merit in a WS instructional rating recognized by USPA. I don't see much connection between the objectives of a USPA coach rating and those of wingsuit training, and don't see why one should be a prerequisite for obtaining or renewing the other in any way. We don't expect college football coaches to pass the same tests that kindergarten teachers have to pass, and vice versa. There are certainly differences in the technical aspects but there any many similarities in the communication, structure, problem solving, etc.Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedWingsuits 0 #62 January 29, 2012 Quote "and conduct recurrency training and jumps with licensed skydivers." Don't leave out the important part, Recurrency, to make your point. It then makes it subject. The info is there, it is just not the answer you want. Matt Back to the drawing board!Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,619 #63 January 29, 2012 QuoteQuoteI can see merit in a WS instructional rating recognized by USPA. I don't see much connection between the objectives of a USPA coach rating and those of wingsuit training, and don't see why one should be a prerequisite for obtaining or renewing the other in any way. We don't expect college football coaches to pass the same tests that kindergarten teachers have to pass, and vice versa. There are certainly differences in the technical aspects but there any many similarities in the communication, structure, problem solving, etc. Not even sure I agree with that, Simon, except at the most superficial level.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skypilotA1 67 #64 January 30, 2012 I am a "D" licensed jumper with 2600 jumps in other disciplines, and have instructor ratings in other disciplines, but very few wingsuit jumps. It would seem if a wingsuit coach jumped with me on a "coach" or instructional jump, that "coach" would be able to count the jump toward renewing their coach rating. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedWingsuits 0 #65 January 30, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteI can see merit in a WS instructional rating recognized by USPA. I don't see much connection between the objectives of a USPA coach rating and those of wingsuit training, and don't see why one should be a prerequisite for obtaining or renewing the other in any way. We don't expect college football coaches to pass the same tests that kindergarten teachers have to pass, and vice versa. There are certainly differences in the technical aspects but there any many similarities in the communication, structure, problem solving, etc. Not even sure I agree with that, Simon, except at the most superficial level. John, I think comparing a football coach to a kindergarten is an extreme example also. I like an analogy that I can relate with more is.... Snowboard instructor and Ski instructor. Both receive 60% the same focus on teaching, progression, customer experience and safety but their technical expertise are different. A good teacher can cross over into any subject in my opinion. In the professional world I live in the technical skill is always secondary to the interpersonal skills....mostly because technical skills can be taught....interpersonal skills you either have....or you do not. This is just my opinion, I won't fight for it...."just sayin'n"Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,619 #66 January 30, 2012 Quote A good teacher can cross over into any subject in my opinion. The FAA seems to agree and USPA doesn't. Can of worms best left closed.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoValidTitle 0 #67 February 9, 2012 QuoteQuoteDo Wingsuit coach jumps count towards Coach rating renewal? You want credit for a "coach" jump when you jump with a D license holder? Absolutely... Since when does a D mean you're done learning? ---------------------------------- I'm highly interested in helping others get into this discipline. I would like to be able to get SOME sort of rating that shows I'm putting forth genuine effort towards keeping my would be "students" safe. The main reason I haven't started down the path to a coach rating yet is because I fear wingsuit coaching would not be recognized. I have zero interest in any other discipline in the sport. If there is a rating that I can keep current by doing FFCs and WS Coaching, I wouldn't be against that. I feel like it should be part of the current coach rating though. The issue I see with that is that John Smith with a coach rating and zero wingsuit jumps could technically be considered a qualified FFC instructor. That said, it shouldn't be a problem if the staff at the DZ keeps that kind of thing on the radar.Nothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
