b52 0 #1 January 21, 2012 I am interested in the PF Havok and was wondering if someone has more info on it. How does it compare to the Shadow, Phantom and Ghost,...skill rating, flight characteristics,...release date. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murf62 0 #2 January 21, 2012 If it's the same as the prototype I flew last Nov (which I believe it is) then it flies the same as a Ghost 3, I would hardly be able to tell the difference, I don't usually hold the grippers on the G3 anyway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gzimmermann 0 #3 January 21, 2012 The PF guys would have to step in here. I can imagine that there is indeed a difference between the Ghost3 and the Havok (if this will be the name and the new suit at all). Just like there is also a difference between the Shadow and the Phantom. The Havok might be a new generation for acro competitions. Better glide, more time to do the tricks but probably also less agile than the Shadow. Just my speculation but will be interesting to follow. Here's a nice vid from Benoit and Jarno, if I am not wrong powered by the Havok: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvYittpUPXM&feature=player_embedded Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murf62 0 #4 January 21, 2012 Yes of course there is a physical difference in that there are no grippers and the wings are slightly smaller to accomodate this, but in the way the suit flies the difference is minimal, as with the P2 and the Shadow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #5 January 21, 2012 The Shadow is a gripperless Phantom and the Havok is a gripperless Ghost ..."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #6 January 22, 2012 The Havok is a more agile/acrobatic version of the Ghost3. http://youtu.be/TvYittpUPXM http://youtu.be/RIKvuKuRBNU We'll have more info/news soon.. Greetings from Oz JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #7 January 23, 2012 Quote The Havok is a more agile/acrobatic version of the Ghost3. http://youtu.be/TvYittpUPXM http://youtu.be/RIKvuKuRBNU We'll have more info/news soon.. Greetings from Oz That orange suit looked quite suspicious. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andymarch 0 #8 July 22, 2013 Bumping up the thread, any personal thoughts from who flown both Havok and Ghost-3? People I ask all say something within: "Ghost is awesome, get a Ghost!". Then I ask, what about Havok? and the answer is "Oh, they are identical, Havok is just gripless" Doesn't help much :) Havok seems to have better ratings in everything: http://www.phoenix-fly.com/products/wingsuits/phoenix_fly_havok however people seem to be not flying it much. Which one to buy?? Anything Ghost-3 is better at? Anything Havok is better at? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bluhdow 31 #9 July 22, 2013 Tons of Havoks at Skydive San Diego. I think it's the best utility, do-anything, go-anywhere DZ wingsuit. Big enough to fly with some of the bigger suits, you can drop it down to flock with Phantoms, and it loves acro. I've found it to be a little slower horizontally than some of the other suits but with some practice you'll learn to get more out of it. A couple folks with Ghosts play with the Havoks all the time. Similar range but a little less acro-friendly. Just my opinion, take it with a grain of salt. ;)Apex BASE #1816 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
devildog 0 #10 July 22, 2013 As long as I'm thinking havocs from this thread, how do they compare vs an r-bird?You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andymarch 0 #11 July 22, 2013 So far I'm inclined towards Havok. If it's "pretty much the same" in terms of glide and speed, I'd sacrifice a few seconds of freefall for an extra bonuses in acro and maneuverability. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnmatrix 21 #12 July 23, 2013 Others have much more experience than me - but I did a single jump on a Ghost 3 and a Havok in one day a while back, and the Havok did feel a lot more maneuverable than the Ghost. The Ghost felt really, really solid, which I liked, but the Havok just felt a lot easier to fly. This is compared to my standard suit; a Phantom 2. I know 3 guys who jump Havoks and love them. Personally I'd go for the Ghost only because it has a tiny bit of extra surface area, but in an ideal world I'd have both. I think someone else may have mentioned - Jarno would be the best person to ask. He is the Havok Master. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdynamnam 28 #13 July 23, 2013 I fly the Havok and i am quite happy. Regarding the Ghost3 having more surface area, well only at the outer wing-tip ends, right? Other than that surface area is identical. Remember that the most lift efficient area is where the wings connect to the body, so in my optics the more area on the G3 is a minor thing. The important decision to make, is whether you want to fly with the quite natural hands-free and palms-down position or you want to fly with grippers and elbows pointing forward Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #14 July 24, 2013 The Ghost has a performance edge on the Havok. The Havok is a lot more agile. The design forces the user to fly more accurate, resulting in a very sharp and agressive flying style. Both suits are essentially based on the same platform (Havok is derived from the Ghost design). But the gripperless armwing creates a tensionline from wrist to armwing-root that allows for very precise manupulation of the armwing. Making the suit one you can 100% control in any orientation. Great for acrobatics, carving etc The slightly steeper angle of attack puts the suit at an automatic high forward speed and glide thats a great basis for any agressive acrobatics, flocks etc. The suit is of such a size that it allows for fast flying, but has quite a performance edge on a phantom/shadow. The reach to the hackey is un-obstructed. Making the suit a great choice for those wanting something bigger, but not wanting the big suit issues (slightly more sloppy flying, more difficult pull etc) making it quite suitable as a step up for those of intermediate to advanced experience levels. In terms of backflying, I dare say its the most powerful and agile suit on the market. But the suit can also be a nice suit for 'big boys' looking for a shadow/phantom type suit with a bit more lift to keep their heavy frame up with a bunch of skinny peeps. Here's some nice flying examples. Carving around flocks - VIMEO Acrobatics - VIMEO Agility - YouTube BASE - VIMEOJC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #15 July 24, 2013 Quote Regarding the Ghost3 having more surface area, well only at the outer wing-tip ends, right? Its actually the full arm wing that is bigger. Not just at the wing tips. There is quite a big (almost) triangular section of wing missing, starting at the wing-root (on the leg) and continuing upward in a curved path up to the wrist. In flying with a skilled person in a Ghost3, at 100% flight I cant fully match the performance. But when it comes to flying steeper angles, and other non-conformist ways of flocking the Havok is a lot easier to push into strange orientationsJC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OuttaBounZ 0 #16 July 24, 2013 I could watch your videos all day, Jarno! Freakin Rockstar! I had a Havok for a while. That suit makes any average Joe fly Like Jarno instantly, as long as you get it in orange. Mine was white, so I sucked as usual.Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnmatrix 21 #17 July 24, 2013 birdynamnam The important decision to make, is whether you want to fly with the quite natural hands-free and palms-down position or you want to fly with grippers and elbows pointing forward I definitely agree with that too. The Havok is the only suit I've jumped without grippers, and I was really surprised at how much more natural it felt. But I guess you can fly pretty much any suit without using the grippers if you really want. Anyway, I liked it. A+ would jump again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #18 July 24, 2013 QuoteBut I guess you can fly pretty much any suit without using the grippers if you really want. There are some slight different things that happen to the wing in flight and during transitions on suits with/without grippers. Causing a light bulging/cupping of air. On gripperless suits the wing tends to stay a more flat/tight surface due to the tension line between wrist and leg, meaning the suit bahaves more like one surface during transitions.JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #19 August 2, 2013 Some videos I shot in Canada the past week, using the PF Havokhttps://vimeo.com/71276028 JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ataltitude 0 #20 August 3, 2013 Sick so getting a havok. This summer coming. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aarthus 0 #21 August 4, 2013 Quote There are some slight different things that happen to the wing in flight and during transitions on suits with/without grippers. Causing a light bulging/cupping of air. On gripperless suits the wing tends to stay a more flat/tight surface due to the tension line between wrist and leg, meaning the suit bahaves more like one surface during transitions. really ?? Patrick de Guillebon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #22 August 5, 2013 Quote really ?? And on some older suits it helps prevent flapping of the legwing due to inflation issuesBut in this case I was referring to flying a suit on its side during big carving movesJC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
