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Tailstrikes

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this is suppose to be a forum FOR wingsuiters to HELP wingsuiters. can someone just make an anonamous proflie and let us know where the damn wingsuits are banned other than miami? jesus guys what a shitstorm. by all means share the info on how to exit safely, but let the experienced guys that travel know where they cant jump too. i for one will not be traveling to a dropzone that is known to have banned wingsuits. and i will freely share that information with my fellow wingsuiters. someone pm me, ill share the info, without an anonamous profile
Flock University FWC / ZFlock
B.A.S.E. 1580
Aussie BASE 121

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+1

I'd love to show up at a DZ on a random weekend trip once I get back to the US and find that the DZ I just showed up to doesn't want my money. Or before I travel anywhere, I'll just call any DZ that I may stop at and ask. Problem solved!

That said, hitting the tail is almost as difficult to pull off as a no pull. Not that it can't happen by accident but it's usually the product of a spectacular series of decisions... Scrunch and present like an aff student, poop, or dive. Sit in the door and roll out if you want, there's no excuse for something like that Miami tail strike. How do people manage to hit Caravans and Otters exiting at altitude?
This isn't flying, its falling with style.

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I think calling ahead may create its own kind of trouble. Here is how I think it could go...

Me "hey I am going to visit this weekend, do you allow Wingsuiting?"
DZO "sure we do...love those Wingsuits......what do you mean do we allow it? Do some places not allow it?? Why?"
Me "oh....that's not what I meant.....um....er......well some places have banned it recently because of tail strikes"
DZO "oh really....you might have a point there...."

Then on DZ.Com headline reads "Wingsuiting banned at unnamed drop zone because Simon stirred up trouble".

If we have facts we don't want to share let's just not post at all instead of this "I know something you don't know..." approach. It irritates me. Just as we know from aircraft accidents and indeed skydiving accidents it is with facts that we can make conclusions.
Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month.

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More details will probably hit the net when they are allowed to be shared. As some people may be negotiating/talking about these very details with DZO's atm. to make sure we can jump everywhere, and every plane.

I hope a simple 'lets not hit tails of airplanes' and 'educate and inform those around you how to exit' is a simple lesson everyone can take from this negative trend for now.

We're already a small community, we don't need thinning of the herd by accidents..
JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

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I think calling ahead may create its own kind of trouble. Here is how I think it could go...

Me "hey I am going to visit this weekend, do you allow Wingsuiting?"
DZO "sure we do...love those Wingsuits......what do you mean do we allow it? Do some places not allow it?? Why?"
Me "oh....that's not what I meant.....um....er......well some places have banned it recently because of tail strikes"
DZO "oh really....you might have a point there...."

Then on DZ.Com headline reads "Wingsuiting banned at unnamed drop zone because Simon stirred up trouble".

If we have facts we don't want to share let's just not post at all instead of this "I know something you don't know..." approach. It irritates me. Just as we know from aircraft accidents and indeed skydiving accidents it is with facts that we can make conclusions.



Perhaps a more intelligent approach might be "Hi, I'm Simon and I fly a wingsuit. I'm heading to your DZ next week and wondered if there is anything I should know in advance?"

It's no different than responsibly calling a DZ to find out if they require AADs, or where you might stay in the area.

Perhaps you're right. Rather than converse "Let's be careful out there because there is a recent increase in tailstrikes," everyone should just keep their mouth shut. :S

"Why is this happening" is so much more important than "I want to stay away from DZ ZYX" in my view.

FWIW, in the past few day two of the DZ's have decideds to allow wingsuiting with butt-on-floor exits. Intelligent, non-reactive conversation can make a difference (as Jarno indicated).

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The two jumpships with lower horizontal elevators (Beech & PAC750) are both low-wing planes. So for these (when looking forward on exit), wait till the plane’s main wing trailing edge goes by your face to open your wings.



Or just do a tail-first (poop) exit and stay knees in and bent forwars until the tail goes past.



We poop regularly at Skydive Spaceland.
We just did another double poop today B|

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The two jumpships with lower horizontal elevators (Beech & PAC750) are both low-wing planes. So for these (when looking forward on exit), wait till the plane’s main wing trailing edge goes by your face to open your wings.



Or just do a tail-first (poop) exit and stay knees in and bent forwars until the tail goes past.



like this?

Your video is still uploading Mike.


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The two jumpships with lower horizontal elevators (Beech & PAC750) are both low-wing planes. So for these (when looking forward on exit), wait till the plane’s main wing trailing edge goes by your face to open your wings.



Or just do a tail-first (poop) exit and stay knees in and bent forwars until the tail goes past.



like this?

Your video is still uploading Mike.



That is not a proper poop exit, Kris. I don't know what the hell that was supposed to be.

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The two jumpships with lower horizontal elevators (Beech & PAC750) are both low-wing planes. So for these (when looking forward on exit), wait till the plane’s main wing trailing edge goes by your face to open your wings.



Or just do a tail-first (poop) exit and stay knees in and bent forwars until the tail goes past.



like this?

Your video is still uploading Mike.



That is not a proper poop exit, Kris. I don't know what the hell that was supposed to be.



that i believe is a wingsuit gainer :D

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Well, I didn't see he gainered it. It was his first jump in his X2, it was the caravan, we were at 5.1k. The pilot said on the ground 'if you guys hit the tail and I live you guys are dead!' GUI usually exits in a poop and flips over so I assumed that had happened here too. Will edit this post and link a video of GUI in his V3, his normal exit is a 'poop'. I see more double poop and triple poop exits than any other exit at Spaceland. Anyway, this was relevant to the tailstrike thread and I saw someone other than Mike and Brian say poop just as I finished editing the video...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlnmfO7-Fx0

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We went up hoping for 7.5ish like we got on the earlier load. He has a 1000 wingsuit jumps, BTW. It was his first jump of that day. We didn't expect to see him that weekend, guess his new suit dragged him to the dz.



Having just watched the exit video of the strike, I have to say come on guys if you think thats a safe exit you need to stop flying wingsuits. Lets get a bit of basic safety back into the jump. None of us want to damage the aircraft or risk the lives of our fellow jumpers or ourselves so lets just have a chat when we see lousy exits and get out sh*t together. We all love this sport and want it to grow so lets get the basics right. Exits are not difficult, we used to jump a no flaps king air 90 with a GS1 and Pax750XL there is no excuse pilot or otherwise. We are responsible for ourselves and each other so lets just put this to bed and make some nice clean closed safe exits. B|
Dont just talk about it, Do it!

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We went up hoping for 7.5ish like we got on the earlier load. He has a 1000 wingsuit jumps, BTW. It was his first jump of that day. We didn't expect to see him that weekend, guess his new suit dragged him to the dz.



Having just watched the exit video of the strike, I have to say come on guys if you think thats a safe exit you need to stop flying wingsuits. Lets get a bit of basic safety back into the jump. None of us want to damage the aircraft or risk the lives of our fellow jumpers or ourselves so lets just have a chat when we see lousy exits and get out sh*t together. We all love this sport and want it to grow so lets get the basics right. Exits are not difficult, we used to jump a no flaps king air 90 with a GS1 and Pax750XL there is no excuse pilot or otherwise. We are responsible for ourselves and each other so lets just put this to bed and make some nice clean closed safe exits. B|



There is a night and day difference between the miami exit and the exit in the video I posted. If you can't see that maybe you should get some grey cells!


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There is a night and day difference between the miami exit and the exit in the video I posted. If you can't see that maybe you should get some grey cells!



I don't think he was comparing them. If you can't see that... :P
www.WingsuitPhotos.com

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There is a night and day difference between the miami exit and the exit in the video I posted. If you can't see that maybe you should get some grey cells!



I don't think he was comparing them. If you can't see that... :P



I was not comparing them I was merely stating the exits with the individual hitting the tail was blatantaly unsafe. As for commenting about grey cells I was having a dig at anyone; just stating lets collectively get exits right where we see they are clearly dangerous; if your first reaction is to have a dig about my intelligence thats fine just not particularly helpful.
Dont just talk about it, Do it!

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Wicked Wingsuits will support the "TailStrike List".

As you are aware of tail strike incidents please send an anyonymous safety report to us. Try to include:

Suit or Suit Size:
Aircraft:
Aircraft Configuration:
Experience level:
Wingsuit Education (self taught, FFC?):
Notes: anything else

PM or email. As the data is collected we will gladly publish it without drawing personal conlusion.

This will be similar the DZ.COM incidents, BASE fatalities and "Small Camera Incident List". No names or locations are needed, we think suit, aircraft, configuration and experience are all that is relevant.
Our motive is to allow the majority to review the facts.
Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month.

Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com

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With Safety Day coming up, this seems like it would be a good topic to talk about - both for wingsuiters and for non-wingsuit skydivers.

Has anyone done a presentation for Safety Day on avoiding tail strikes?

I'm trying to find some materials that might be useful in connection with such a presentation. I'm aware of two different camera angles of one incident (I think it was the Miami incident, but I'm not 100% sure) - they can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcb2L5GkNRM and here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrd1KG9ifVg; any other footage of other incidents would be helpful.

Edited to add: Obviously, I'm not trying to "bust" or "out" anyone who has had a strike if they don't want the information going around, so I am looking for stuff that might be available on the usual sources, like YouTube, Vimeo, etc. But anecdotes - even anonymous ones like Simon is collecting - would be useful.

Thanks.
Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography

Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

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With Safety Day coming up, this seems like it would be a good topic to talk about - both for wingsuiters and for non-wingsuit skydivers.

Has anyone done a presentation for Safety Day on avoiding tail strikes?

I'm trying to find some materials that might be useful in connection with such a presentation. .



See attached.

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I can't remember for sure but I think it was 2006 or 2007. A wingsuit jumper, friend of mine, hit her head/neck on the tail of Sebastian's Caravan (300-400 jumps I believe), probably flying a Phantom or something equal in size. Outcome was a dented tail and a sore neck. All parties involved there were extremely lucky. Add that to your sheet if you want. It will be hard to get an accurate record of the past, as there are no doubt all sorts of reports missing, but hopefully it will be easier to keep your DB up to date real time.
www.WingsuitPhotos.com

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I can't remember for sure but I think it was 2006 or 2007. A wingsuit jumper, friend of mine, hit her head/neck on the tail of Sebastian's Caravan (300-400 jumps I believe), probably flying a Phantom or something equal in size. Outcome was a dented tail and a sore neck. All parties involved there were extremely lucky. Add that to your sheet if you want. It will be hard to get an accurate record of the past, as there are no doubt all sorts of reports missing, but hopefully it will be easier to keep your DB up to date real time.



I'd heard about this (assuming it's the same one) but was unable to verify with anyone from Sebastian.
There are 3 additional unconfirmed tailstrikes not seen in this list. The way that we've been putting this together is that there are confirmed and rumored, and confirmations either come from face to face, phone, or email verification.

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