mccordia 73 #51 December 13, 2011 Im not saying there is no room for a rental service. Far from it. But the reasons Simon lists as a need to rent, contained quite a few misrepresented truths on the need to fly certain suits. Hence my comments. Party on... JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedWingsuits 0 #52 December 13, 2011 Quote Im not saying there is no room for a rental service. Far from it. But the reasons Simon lists as a need to rent, contained quite a few misrepresented truths on the need to fly certain suits. Hence my comments. Party on... Just because you don't agree with them doesn't make the untrue.Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
omnia 0 #53 December 13, 2011 I'm just confused what any of this has to do with why cracked.com thinks riding plywood down a volcano is manlier than wingsuiting? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #54 December 13, 2011 Quote I'm just confused what any of this has to do with why cracked.com thinks riding plywood down a volcano is manlier than wingsuiting? MarketingJC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #55 December 13, 2011 QuoteThe FlyLikeBrick website currently has a nice Phantom2 listed for 400,- and a SM1 for roughly the same in the 2nd hand section. Sellers may even negotiate price and get it cheaper. Are they really comparable? They are different tools for different purposes. It's like buying a Parafoil or Velocity for CReW instead of a Lighting, because you can have a great deal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedWingsuits 0 #56 December 13, 2011 Quote Quote I'm just confused what any of this has to do with why cracked.com thinks riding plywood down a volcano is manlier than wingsuiting? Marketing You guys turned it into marketing...and a lot of other non related issues. I listed it because it was an interesting wingsuit article comparing wingsuiting to other actives. I don't agree that wingsuiting is something you "have never heard of". Everybody I meet these days has seen Jeb and YouTube videos and knows about bat suits...they just think we can land them too. There are a few conspiracy theorists in these parts but none as extreme as my old boss: http://www.ianrcrane.co.uk/Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 0 #57 December 13, 2011 QuoteI'm just confused what any of this has to do with why cracked.com thinks riding plywood down a volcano is manlier than wingsuiting? Trust me, on the plywood volcano riding forum... it looks the same. They are having a huge argument right now about yahoos renting out full sheets of high quality wood to newbies who should still be practicing with half-size sheets in hot sandboxes. It's just human nature.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 620 #58 December 13, 2011 Not to mention they dislike the brand of plywood. Weyerhaeuser is the shit man! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
omnia 0 #59 December 13, 2011 hahaha. This got me curious so I did a search on volcano boarding and found another top 5 list we share : http://www.islandcrisis.net/2011/08/worlds-weirdest-extreme-sports/ 5th weirdest extreme sport. And I thought I was normal? oh well, at least we got beat out by Extreme Ironing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #60 December 13, 2011 Quote I listed it because it was an interesting wingsuit article comparing wingsuiting to other actives. You found it interesting. Are you serious? "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #61 December 13, 2011 Coupla thoughts: ~Rent a wingsuit for 4 months/season= $800.00 (200.00 /40 jumps a month=5.00 per jump) ~Buy a used wingsuit (classifies are full) $400.00-700.00 Done with used suit, either use it for flocking, or resell it. Resold suits hold their value very well. Solda P2 for 650.00, and traded it back a year later for 500.00. His net cost for entire season was less than 13.00 per month (Jumper from Perris, so full-time use). Assume someone is really, really active; they'll put 10 jumps per weekend/40 jumps a month. That works out to 5.00 a jump. Owning and reselling works out to less than than .50 per jump. Done with renting, nothing to show for it. If it rains, snows, sleets, or hails, you still owe for the rental regardless of jumps. If you own, there is no value lost if the weather or life turns bad for a while. I'm still wondering about all those cutaways on "old suits" tho. Please tell us more? I'm honestly trying to understand this one. If you need to chop wings "several times" and have "heard of several guys needing to pull wing cutaways" it suggests some really poor technique or...? It just doesn't ring true to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedWingsuits 0 #62 December 14, 2011 QuoteCoupla thoughts: ~Rent a wingsuit for 4 months/season= $800.00 (200.00 /40 jumps a month=5.00 per jump) ~Buy a used wingsuit (classifies are full) $400.00-700.00 Done with used suit, either use it for flocking, or resell it. Resold suits hold their value very well. Solda P2 for 650.00, and traded it back a year later for 500.00. His net cost for entire season was less than 13.00 per month (Jumper from Perris, so full-time use). Assume someone is really, really active; they'll put 10 jumps per weekend/40 jumps a month. That works out to 5.00 a jump. Owning and reselling works out to less than than .50 per jump. Done with renting, nothing to show for it. If it rains, snows, sleets, or hails, you still owe for the rental regardless of jumps. If you own, there is no value lost if the weather or life turns bad for a while. I'm still wondering about all those cutaways on "old suits" tho. Please tell us more? I'm honestly trying to understand this one. If you need to chop wings "several times" and have "heard of several guys needing to pull wing cutaways" it suggests some really poor technique or...? It just doesn't ring true to me. Renting isn't for everyone...thank goodness or we wouldn't have enough suits to go around. However there are many oversights missing from your theory. First the classifieds might be full of suits but you have to find one that is the right style, the right size for the right price and hopefully in acceptable colors. A wingsuit isn't like a canopy...you have to find the right one. Also, do the same math for someone going from an Intro to an R Bird and spending money on each suit along the way....and include the time spent waiting for the suit...renting wins every time in both time and money. Especially time which is really what most people are short of. Wicked Wingsuits doesn't exist because I wanted it to, it exists because of demand. In regard to the cutaway cables: Put on an original Phantom, grab the cables and give them a tug but let one slip in panic. It might be halfway out but your arm is still attached to your body. Now you have one arm on and one arm off. A good system should function in less than perfect conditions, luckily all the new designs do now and a partial cutaway still gives you something to work with...bravo!Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #63 December 14, 2011 Quotegrab the cables and give them a tug but let one slip in panic. How does this differ from the cutaway on your RIG? QuoteNow you have one arm on and one arm off. In most cases you'll only need one (zipper jam). Regardless, if you're not capable of pulling cutaways all the way out...you shouldnt jump at all. Again...your rig works the same. If you let your cutaway pad 'slip' and pull your reserve with your other hand, or don't pull it out all the way and have a partial release of your main. You're pretty much screwed. All cutaways systems on FYB, BM (post Robi years aside), PF and Intrudair work fine, past designs and present, when you use them as intended. Pulling cables all the way. Again, like your rig. QuoteA good system should function in less than perfect conditions Fully agreed. They shouldn't depend on fit, clothing worn underneath, arm-size or other outside parameters that seem to hinder the sleeve systems function on various brands. It works for SOME people. But for many it doesn't. That would be a fine reason to offer a cutaway as an option.JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedWingsuits 0 #64 December 14, 2011 A canopy cutaway and the older wingsuit cutaway are inverse to each other. A canopy cutaway is a single handle which when pulled 6 inches will cutaway the main. The single handle is connected to two different length cables so that it pulls evenly. Grab your rig now and pull that handle 6 inches (11-ish cm), what happens? An older wingsuit arm cutaway consists of 2 cables than will only release the wings when both are pulled to the full extent of the cable and stripped. Get one out and pull both cables 6 inches, what happens? Both wings attached still eh? You and Spot are making the same argument that people made around the invention of the 3 rings. "If you can't chop both capwells at the same time then your shouldn't be jumping". I will give you more credit, I think you really have been crucial to the improvement of safety in wingsuits but you just can't help being argumentative. The point is....wingsuits have improved...can you really deny this?Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedWingsuits 0 #65 December 14, 2011 Quote Done with renting, nothing to show for it. If it rains, snows, sleets, or hails, you still owe for the rental regardless of jumps. The same weather and aircraft issues would impact your $ per jump calculations and affects the cost of ownership.Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
omnia 0 #66 December 14, 2011 QuoteCoupla thoughts: ~Rent a wingsuit for 4 months/season= $800.00 (200.00 /40 jumps a month=5.00 per jump) ~Buy a used wingsuit (classifies are full) $400.00-700.00 Done with used suit, either use it for flocking, or resell it. Resold suits hold their value very well. Solda P2 for 650.00, and traded it back a year later for 500.00. His net cost for entire season was less than 13.00 per month (Jumper from Perris, so full-time use). Assume someone is really, really active; they'll put 10 jumps per weekend/40 jumps a month. That works out to 5.00 a jump. Owning and reselling works out to less than than .50 per jump. One example of someone who was able to find a suit that fit him and was also able to sell it at a good price seems quite a stretch from the generalization that "owning and reselling works out to less than .50 per jump". It worked out for HIM to that. I looked at dz.com when i first started wingsuiting and did not find any used wingsuits that would work for me. For some people, buying used is the cheaper route for sure. For others, its not or is not even an option. Some others aren't sure they want to stick to wingsuiting and spending $200 for a month to figure it out is worth it and the more cost effective route. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #67 December 14, 2011 Rent a suit-have nothing when you're done. Finding a used suit for most average body types; easy. My first three suits were used, and now I own more than 70, most of which were acquired used. Finding used suits is incredibly easy. It's never been easier. Can you provide a freebie suit to a guy who is 6'8"? I can. Sometimes rentals are the most feasible option. So the next concern is how trained up the renter is, who he's getting training from (the over the phone training doesn't work, ) 800.00 for a season vs 100.00 for a year...big difference. Especially when life comes at you fast and you can't afford or the weather won't let you jump. Doesn't work for everyone, and does work for a good number but that good number should be properly informed. |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| What really, really bothers me in this thread is that you're using Trojan marketing to spread FUD, and that's just not right. Quote The point is....wingsuits have improved...can you really deny this? No one has said they haven't improved. Two years ago I flew one of the first wingsuit prototypes from more than a decade ago. Yeah...big difference. That's NOT the point, and you keep ducking the point. Cables work. Regardless of skill, suit, brand, underclothes, size of arm, sweat, or air pressure. You claim "a few guys you know" and "a few cutaways" yourself....Really? Honest Injun? Who? When? Where? For ANYONE to suggest that cables are dangerous at any level is dirty bullshit for market positioning and it's that kind of fabricated storytelling that gets people hurt, helps people get in over their heads, and scares a few away from our discipline. The brandwar stuff is tedious, sometimes fun, and always amusing regardless of which side of it one is on. But to deliberately obfuscate and make up bullshit about something that is an industry standard, proven in many situations over a decade simply for the sole purpose of putting $$/brand ahead of safety, that's just ridiculous Quote I will give you more credit, I think you really have been crucial to the improvement of safety in wingsuits but you just can't help being argumentative. I'll always be argumentative when it comes to spewed ignorance and intentional disregard for common sense. A few years ago, I wanted to figure out highspeed exits from a KingAir, because that was the aircraft I had access to. EdP, Chuck Blue, and a few others loudly told me how ignorant and stupid I was to try. I'm glad they were argumentative, glad they pointed out the complete lack of understanding on my part. In this case, you're doing all of wingsuiting a disservice with your position on safety. Comparing wing cuts to 3 rings/capewells.... Just more FUD. I could do the same with TS, but honestly, I respect Tony's work too much to stoop that low. T'would be VERY easy to rip apart a TS suit for purposes of marketing, but that's not what this is about. Did you notice how many TS suits are in my room? Ranging from a horrid color XBird to more than a dozen Intros and everything in between? Did you notice the SFly? and the old Priest suit? I've jumped em' all. and understand them all. Spend some time wingsuiting with other suits, other people, and if you really want an understanding; jump with students full time. Earn your AFFI so you understand more. Attend an IERC, you'll have a better grip. Become an Examiner. You'll know even more. Living in a small bubble with no outside experience doesn't serve you well. You could start with a PFC course, if you think you could pass it. I'd wager it would be a huge challenge. Because.. Safety comes first. Always. Those of us who have been around for a bit of time have learned this fairly expensively. I'm a relative newbie compared to many, but it didn't take long to learn, unfortunately usually at the expense of others. The day will come that you're dialing 911 before he hits the ground, and you'll have talked to him til you're blue in the face. In that one instance, all things become clear. I hope you never see that day. FIW, had another one just two days ago. I hope he lives to send regrets. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedWingsuits 0 #68 December 14, 2011 What is FUD?Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedWingsuits 0 #69 December 14, 2011 Your responses actually don't discuss the points I raise at all. Not to worry.... Let me know the dates of the next 3 Phoenix Fly courses in Elsinore, myself and a couple of my agents are going to sign up.Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobMoore 0 #70 December 14, 2011 QuoteWhat is FUD? A two second search on google.com says FUD is short for "fear, uncertainty, and doubt". Google search is great. Use it."For you see, an airplane is an airplane. A landing area is a landing area. But a dropzone... a dropzone is the people." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedWingsuits 0 #71 December 14, 2011 Older generation suits are less safe than newer generation suits....call it FUD, BS or FACT...that is my position.Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedWingsuits 0 #72 December 14, 2011 Or it could be, according to Google: http://www.eatfud.com/Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobMoore 0 #73 December 14, 2011 QuoteOr it could be, according to Google: http://www.eatfud.com/ Yes, I saw that and had to laugh. I learn something new every day."For you see, an airplane is an airplane. A landing area is a landing area. But a dropzone... a dropzone is the people." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 0 #74 December 14, 2011 QuoteQuoteOr it could be, according to Google: http://www.eatfud.com/ Yes, I saw that and had to laugh. I learn something new every day. Works better in conjunction with the 5th entry in the list...www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 620 #75 December 14, 2011 You actually have enough wingsuit experience to make this claim??? You need to get out more my friend. Try some other suits for a change. It might actually affect your position. But I doubt it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
