kallend 1,620 #1 October 30, 2011 I finally downloaded my Flysight data collected since July. All but 2 of the flocks I have been in (led by a variety of people including some "names") had glide ratios around 1:1 The only exceptions were jumps I made with Simon Repton and Brian Smarr, where we exceeded 2:1 over much of the jump. Just curious, why do most flock leaders setup such steep glides?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #2 October 30, 2011 Quote I finally downloaded my Flysight data collected since July. All but 2 of the flocks I have been in (led by a variety of people including some "names") had glide ratios around 1:1 The only exceptions were jumps I made with Simon Repton and Brian Smarr, where we exceeded 2:1 over much of the jump. Just curious, why do most flock leaders setup such steep glides? Base flyers tend to fly slower so that everyone can get there. It takes effort and skill to gradually build the speed, and if the goal is for everyone to "get there" then it takes some strategy in laying out the flock. If the base starts at near full speed, it's difficult for the rest of the load to get there, so it has to start slower and then build. The tendency to put large guys in large suits isn't always a good choice, even tho it's easy because you know they'll "stay down." Get a base like Dave Patterson who understands how to start slow and gradually build it to almost full speed. This is where some guys get the feeling of "rocking it out and speeding like mad" on breakoff, because they're only flying 20% of wha they can actually do. Try flying a flock at 75%, and you won't see the "mad performance" at breakoff. Some of it is that the really fat guys are put in as base, and theycan't sustain altitude without more speed. Build flocks to build skill vs making them slow/easy, you'll see faster flocks and better wingsuiters. Or...because others in the formation wear weights? Cuz the organizers can't spot?Come west, you'll see we tend to fly a little faster and less steep. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #3 October 30, 2011 IMO it is the problem of "levelling for the slowest". As I like most, is when the "weakest" is already very good/fast. Full speed flocks are great scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #4 October 30, 2011 Quote IMO it is the problem of "levelling for the slowest". As I like most, is when the "weakest" is already very good/fast. Full speed flocks are great Very true. A few jumps with the Finns is all thats is needed to see this in action."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LukeH 0 #5 October 30, 2011 What was the average vertical speed before breakoff? Was the base a low experience jumper? There is a tendency in some places to put the least experienced guy as the base and have everyone else fly to them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #6 October 31, 2011 We usually go around 100km/h vertical and medium forward speed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #7 October 31, 2011 Quote Quote IMO it is the problem of "levelling for the slowest". As I like most, is when the "weakest" is already very good/fast. Full speed flocks are great Very true. A few jumps with the Finns is all thats is needed to see this in action. fuck the Finns for the Sion Airshow (26 way with lots of Phantoms) we were around 90km/h vertical, and pretty high horizontal speed). That was cool scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #8 October 31, 2011 Quote We usually go around 100km/h vertical and medium forward speed. The jump where you flew base in Hungary was 85 MPH down at only a 1.2 Glide. The jump after, where Grisha flew base on his back was 56 mph with a 1.9 glide. I say the Hungarians got the Finish beat by a large margin.Ive seen a lot of nice stuff (also from Fins) at boogies around EU, but the stuff constantly refered to from Cochsted '08 seemed to mostly be long stretched out flocks, with a base flying ballistic speeds, with only a few people barely reaching their slot, and most (including the camera) chasing far behind. If there is any video I missed during debriefs, Id love to finally see it online Scott. As it's talked about by you so much, without ever showing. There is a happy intermediate between ludicrous speed and freefalling...but its often hard to set, and keep everyone happy at the same time.JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #9 October 31, 2011 Quote There is a happy intermediate between ludicrous speed and freefalling...but its often hard to set, and keep everyone happy at the same time. There is a need to find a good leader (who can hold a vertical and horizontal speed) (you have one, I have one ), then people who would say out loud what he needs (that's what I do) and also ask other people what their needs are, and then you have a good recipe to do some "powerflocking". Also there is no need to "weed out" younger jumpers too early, just need to be sure they will fly safe and try their best to fly 110%. After first try(s), cut the people who cannot hold their slots/keep up with the rythm. But still organize "lower performance" jumps for them to get them better and better, and have them someday join the "fastflock" again.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aerodynamite 0 #10 October 31, 2011 Gabor... We have different readings when you are 500 meters under our formation - No mercy in the flock! Straighten your legs!!! - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #11 October 31, 2011 First, flocks with glide ratios of 1 to 1 can be fun if they're fast. Second, looks like I was right about larger suits, larger flocks, but the same performance ... "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,620 #12 October 31, 2011 Quote First, flocks with glide ratios of 1 to 1 can be fun if they're fast. Second, looks like I was right about larger suits, larger flocks, but the same performance ... No it doesn't. Illogical conclusion on your part... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,620 #13 October 31, 2011 QuoteWhat was the average vertical speed before breakoff? Which ones? the 1:1 or the >2:1 jumps. Quote Was the base a low experience jumper? There is a tendency in some places to put the least experienced guy as the base and have everyone else fly to them. As I wrote in the OP, some of the leaders have been well known "names" in the community.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,620 #14 October 31, 2011 QuoteQuoteWe usually go around 100km/h vertical and medium forward speed. The jump where you flew base in Hungary was 85 MPH down at only a 1.2 Glide. That is no better than can be achieved by a good tracker in a RW suit. www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=2767953;so=ASC;sb=post_latest_reply;#2767312... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #15 October 31, 2011 Quote That is no better than can be achieved by a good tracker in a RW suit. Yea...thats why we switched base, and put a small suit up frontJC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #16 October 31, 2011 Quote Quote First, flocks with glide ratios of 1 to 1 can be fun if they're fast. Second, looks like I was right about larger suits, larger flocks, but the same performance ... No it doesn't. Illogical conclusion on your part Blah, blah, blah ... go fly a large wingsuit so you don't go low (because you don't know how to get back up), add weight so you don't stay high (because you don't know how to get down), and belly fly (because you can't backfly)."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #17 October 31, 2011 Quote Quote Quote We usually go around 100km/h vertical and medium forward speed. The jump where you flew base in Hungary was 85 MPH down at only a 1.2 Glide. That is no better than can be achieved by a good tracker in a RW suit. www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=2767953;so=ASC;sb=post_latest_reply;#2767312 And yet you wear a large wingsuit with weight instead of your RW suit on those jumps ... "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,620 #18 October 31, 2011 Quote Quote Quote First, flocks with glide ratios of 1 to 1 can be fun if they're fast. Second, looks like I was right about larger suits, larger flocks, but the same performance ... No it doesn't. Illogical conclusion on your part Blah, blah, blah ... go fly a large wingsuit so you don't go low (because you don't know how to get back up), add weight so you don't stay high (because you don't know how to get down), and belly fly (because you can't backfly). ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #19 October 31, 2011 Could you quote less of previous posts...makes it easier to skip the non-answers you typically post.. JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,620 #20 October 31, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote We usually go around 100km/h vertical and medium forward speed. The jump where you flew base in Hungary was 85 MPH down at only a 1.2 Glide. That is no better than can be achieved by a good tracker in a RW suit. www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=2767953;so=ASC;sb=post_latest_reply;#2767312 And yet you wear a large wingsuit with weight instead of your RW suit on those jumps ... ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,620 #21 October 31, 2011 Quote Could you quote less of previous posts...makes it easier to skip the non-answers you typically post.. How about refraining from taking cheap pot shots for a change?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,620 #22 October 31, 2011 Quote Quote That is no better than can be achieved by a good tracker in a RW suit. Yea...thats why we switched base, and put a small suit up front ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,620 #23 October 31, 2011 QuoteWe usually go around 100km/h vertical and medium forward speed. "Medium" being what? 110-120km/h?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #24 October 31, 2011 QuoteHow about refraining from taking cheap pot shots for a change? Like you do with your Yawns? You hate Butters/Tony and follow him around on this forum like a scary stalker with discussions that never have answers, and selective quotes. My post wasnt a cheap shot. It was an actual suggestion to not waste 500 quoted characters on a post where all you add is .JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,620 #25 October 31, 2011 QuoteQuoteHow about refraining from taking cheap pot shots for a change? Like you do with your Yawns? You hate Butters/Tony and follow him around on this forum like a scary stalker with discussions that never have answers, and selective quotes. My post wasnt a cheap shot. It was an actual suggestion to not waste 500 quoted characters on a post where all you add is . Your and Butters' repeated negative comments about my ability to fly a wingsuit, such as Quote go fly a large wingsuit so you don't go low (because you don't know how to get back up), add weight so you don't stay high (because you don't know how to get down), and belly fly (because you can't backfly). say rather more about you and him than about me.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
