mccordia 73 #26 October 31, 2011 Why are you attributing butters comments to me? You're the one who replies with and than puts someone elses words on my account as a professional spindoctor. Yet Butters comments do make sense when one reads back page after page of serious questions asked about flying, none of which you ever gave any answer to. And again....quote less...JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #27 October 31, 2011 What part of "such as" is it that you don't understand?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #28 October 31, 2011 QuoteYour and Butters' repeated negative comments about my ability to fly a wingsuit, such as Quote go fly a large wingsuit so you don't go low (because you don't know how to get back up), add weight so you don't stay high (because you don't know how to get down), and belly fly (because you can't backfly). If you think the comments about your ability to fly a wingsuit are negative then do something about it ... get coaching."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #29 October 31, 2011 Quote Quote We usually go around 100km/h vertical and medium forward speed. The jump where you flew base in Hungary was 85 MPH down at only a 1.2 Glide. The jump after, where Grisha flew base on his back was 56 mph with a 1.9 glide. I say the Hungarians got the Finish beat by a large margin.Ive seen a lot of nice stuff (also from Fins) at boogies around EU, but the stuff constantly refered to from Cochsted '08 seemed to mostly be long stretched out flocks, with a base flying ballistic speeds, with only a few people barely reaching their slot, and most (including the camera) chasing far behind. If there is any video I missed during debriefs, Id love to finally see it online Scott. As it's talked about by you so much, without ever showing. There is a happy intermediate between ludicrous speed and freefalling...but its often hard to set, and keep everyone happy at the same time. Turbo has all the video from that boogie, I don't have any of it anymore. However, the Finns have made the boogie rounds, all one has to do is fly with them. As was mentioned up thread, when the flocks get bigger the base has to go slower so everyone can make slot and then pick up speed. Finding the happy medium between the two while still maintaining a fast horizontal speed is tricky and a lot really depends on the skills/abilities of the participants. Which goes back to what has been stated, you're only as strong as your weakest/slowest link/flyer."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #30 October 31, 2011 QuoteAs was mentioned up thread, when the flocks get bigger the base has to go slower so everyone can make slot and then pick up speed. I've found that you can compensate for this by having the leader take between a 30' and 45' instead of a 90' off jump run then taking the remaining 60' or 45' after the flock has built. This can cause issues with different jump runs, multiple flocks per load, etc... so plan ahead. EDIT: Never continue to fly up jump run as anyone tumbling out the door will tumble through the flock!"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #31 October 31, 2011 Quote If you think the comments about your ability to fly a wingsuit are negative then do something about it ... get coaching. you and Kallend need to get a room. You argue like a couple, and I *know* you're not Kallend's boyfriend..... Yet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #32 October 31, 2011 Quote Quote If you think the comments about your ability to fly a wingsuit are negative then do something about it ... get coaching. you and Kallend need to get a room. You argue like a couple, and I *know* you're not Kallend's boyfriend..... Yet. Shouldn't you be teaching or organizing or playing a flute or something ... "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFlyZ 0 #33 October 31, 2011 Hey Prof, Mutually exclusive goals. Flock leaders have to set a pace that is comfortable for everyone. Kris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #34 October 31, 2011 QuoteThe jump where you flew base in Hungary was 85 MPH down at only a 1.2 Glide. The jump after, where Grisha flew base on his back was 56 mph with a 1.9 glide. I say the Hungarians got the Finish beat by a large margin.TongueWink Notice that flock vertical speed a cultural thing and a matter of preference. It's around 100km/h in Finland. 120-130 km/h in Sweden.... I've heard more vertical in US. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #35 October 31, 2011 QuoteNotice that flock vertical speed a cultural thing and a matter of preference. It's around 100km/h in Finland. 120-130 km/h in Sweden.... I've heard more vertical in US. I don't think it's cultural by country. Maybe by dropzone ..."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #36 October 31, 2011 Its a thing people either love to complain about, but hate taking about in terms of solutions. And its a thing people brag about, often without showing the actual flying and performance.JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 0 #37 October 31, 2011 QuoteIts a thing people either love to complain about, but hate taking about in terms of solutions. And its a thing people brag about, often without showing the actual flying and performance. I will give $20 cash and a bucket of fried chicken to whomever posts video of themselves going to one of these events (the ones with the fallrates and glide ratios that trackers could supposedly keep up with), and gets in the formation in a RW or freefly suit, and stays with the formation for the entire jump.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #38 October 31, 2011 Robert Jones already did a nice job flying a prodigy in a large flock with suits the size of kingsize beds.... And though the other way around, I think this picture shows the speeds flown in trackingsuits can exceed what we see in some current day 'big suit' flocks in terms of speed (judging body positions by the flyers)JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #39 October 31, 2011 QuoteHey Prof, Mutually exclusive goals. Flock leaders have to set a pace that is comfortable for everyone. Kris Glide ratio - not pace. 1:1 is a piss-poor glide ratio regardless of pace.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #40 October 31, 2011 QuoteRobert Jones already did a nice job flying a prodigy in a large flock with suits the size of kingsize beds.... And though the other way around, I think this picture shows the speeds flown in trackingsuits can exceed what we see in some current day 'big suit' flocks in terms of speed (judging body positions by the flyers) Well, it could be interpreted that if all anyone can manage in a WS is what a good tracker can achieve without one, then what's the point of spending all that money? You just made my point, thank you.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #41 October 31, 2011 It's a piss-poor glide ratio, but can still be a bunch of wingsuits flying legs stretched/full speed. Yet at a steep angle. A canopy doing agressive diving is also doing a piss-poor glide ratio. Yet its still flying for sure. Thats something whole other than a round sinking in at the same angle/glide. The actual angle and speed at which the people in the flock fly definitely matter. Though those faster angled flocks usually leave the bigger suits lagging behind. As there suddenly drag starts to matter a lot more...JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #42 October 31, 2011 QuoteYou just made my point, thank you. Which was also the point Butters made, glad you finaly see the light... Suit performance has improved with 1/3rd the last few years. Yet flocks still fly the same poor glide ratios... That said, I think the speeds and fallrates at which trackinsuits fly in the above picture, are a lot more than what any good tracker can accomplish, and better than the 1:1 mentioned earlier in the thread. But for sure....many people own big suits, but hardly fly them.JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #43 October 31, 2011 Not talking about diving to the flock, talking about steady state flying in the flock. Apples and oranges.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #44 October 31, 2011 Quote.... and better than the 1:1 mentioned earlier in the thread. But for sure....many people own big suits, but can't hardly fly them. FIFY... THere are a few "name" guys that fly big suits, I'd love to put em' in a P2 and fly against em'. Always fun to see these guys that show up in Sbirds or V3's that have no small suit experience, and they're usually several hundred feet low. Not because I'm that good, but because they're *that* bad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #45 October 31, 2011 QuoteNot talking about diving to the flock, talking about steady state flying in the flock. Im also not talking about diving to the flock. Guess you haven't done any actual angled flight with your suit? - Read my post again - Try and actually understand what I wrote. - Book a ticket to France and see/experience for yourself Steep angles/low glide isnt always a bad thing. Only when its legs on ass/using wingsuits as camerasuits...JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #46 October 31, 2011 You ASS-ume altogether too much about my flying experience.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #47 October 31, 2011 Can you backfly? It's a simple question you have yet to answer ..."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #48 October 31, 2011 QuoteCan you backfly? It's a simple question you have yet to answer ... What is your exit weight? It is a simple question you have yet to answer.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #49 October 31, 2011 QuoteQuoteCan you backfly? It's a simple question you have yet to answer ... What is your exit weight? It is a simple question you have yet to answer. Not sure why my exit weight matters but it varies between 160 and 170 pounds."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #50 October 31, 2011 QuoteYou ASS-ume altogether too much about my flying experience. You took a statement about angle of flight and glide-ratio, and didnt realise or think of any other options than legs on the butt flying or diving to a formation. Yes...that correctly makes me assume you didn't think of any other option. No need to again insult with the word ass pushed into the conversation. You showed again and again insulting and stirring up a fight is your only game/intent.JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
