How many jumps per year would someone need to be safe under an Icarus Extremely Extreme 37? Since we have concluded - on other threads - that total numbers are a crude way to measure skill, let's limit our disscusions to the number of jumps made during the past year. Let's share opinions that relate currency to canopy class and wing loading. Let's also consider what size and class of canopy you can safely jump after a long winter layoff.
ummmm....well the guy who jumps the VX 60 @ 3.1 has done over 600 jumps on it in the last year. Averages about 10 jumps a weekend. He is also a pilot working on his commercial rating.
As for a layoff, he has to jump at least one weekend a month, he can go longer, but doesn't like to.
Ok here's an opinion, linked to wingload. These are minimum currency levels below which I would start to feel nervous for the jumper involved.
Up to 1.0: 30 jumps / year ( I regard this as the minimum to stay current at all) around 1.4: 100 jumps / year around 1.8: 200 jumps / year above 2.2: 400 jumps / year +
Obviously it depends on the individual jumper, but I certainly think that jumps/year has a better link to wing loading and safety than total jumps.
(For info, I load at about 1.7-1.8 and try to do 200 per year.)
No I'm not in favour of the USPA, BPA, or anyone else introducing rules of this nature.
Up to 1.0: 30 jumps / year ( I regard this as the minimum to stay current at all) around 1.4: 100 jumps / year around 1.8: 200 jumps / year above 2.2: 400 jumps / year +
How should the short season up North affect these numbers?
Is it fair to take the numbers, divide in half for 6 monthes?
Min of 30 a year to fly at 1.0:1 Min of 150 a year to fly above 1.25:1 Min of 225 a year to fly greater then 1.4:1 Min of 300 to fly greater then 1.6:1 Min of 350+ to fly greater then 1.8:1 Pref 500+ a year to fly greater then 2.0:1 (Once you reach this level you seem to know your limits and don't need advised anymore)
Murphy's Laws of Love - If the person isn't taken, there's a reason for that...
How should the short season up North affect these numbers?
Sorry - I don't have any first hand experience of that. I jump mainly in the UK. Winter weather can be crap here, but we still get to jump at least every few weeks.
I'm just wondering where the replies on currency based on wingloading are coming from? Experience or other peoples opinions? Not trying to be a flame, Asking legitamately. I only have 50+ jumps on a 1.7 loaded elliptical (this is my first year with it), (only 420 jumps total with only a year and a half in the sport) so I couldn't advise or suggest a min # of jumps per year on a 1.7 or higher loading. Because a) I haven't jumped a single wing loading for an entire year and b) I haven't jumped any extreme canopies at 1.8 or higher. I'm not knocking you Phree, it's just (assuming you've never jumped a 1.8 or higher) how can you recommend currency numbers? Anyways, again, not trying to be a flame, just honestly asking, cause some people just pass through here and read what we write and interpret it as fact. If you got the info from a canopy expert at your DZ, then by all means I apologize, no flame intended.
I've sat down and talked to a few people about this same issue in the last year. Most are high jump number jumpers at my DZ. But a few were from outside my DZ. The main ones that influenced my thinking on this one is John LeBlanc and Brian Germain. Both explained canopy control and currency very well to me. I recommended a bit higher numbers then they did. Like John was thinking 150 for a 1.3-1.4, but after seeing lots of low number jumpers fly in the last 2 year, I always say more experience for added saftey. Look at Icurus's site for thier breakdown of the numbers. Icurus is big into down sizing and they still recommend a season or two of flying HP canopies at Level 4 before going higher.
As for my experience..... I've loaded a Stiletto 120 at 1.62:1 before but never anything higher. I just don't have the experience for it.
Murphy's Laws of Love - If the person isn't taken, there's a reason for that...
The question was only referring to currency numbers on the highly loaded canopies. Obviously your opinion on canopy loadings you've jumped or are jumping are certainly valid.
Cool thanks for the info. It's tough to ask questions on this board sometimes without people getting all defensive. Mucho Appreciation! Brian is a huge resource on canopy sizing and experience. He should write a book about canopy flight. What did you think of the Stilletto, I demo'd a 120 and was all set to buy it, then I talked with a few people (Brian being one of them ironicaly) and I became aware of the "Spinetto" nickname. Then with the crossfire problems, I decided to go with an airlock and am glad i did. I wante dto buy a Samuria but I get employee discounts on PD gear at my DZ so it was a financial decision that made me pick the vengeance. Am happy with it though, it flys great
Actually... Look in the Gear area.... I'm looking at both those canopies (Samurai and Vengence) as a replacement to my Cobalt. Put your input on them if you have an opinion.
Murphy's Laws of Love - If the person isn't taken, there's a reason for that...
(This post was edited by PhreeZone on Feb 7, 2002, 9:59 AM)
No clue, but can someone find me an insurance policy to take out on the individual in question that won't rule jumping under something that small consitutes suicide?
Don't worry about USPA legislating experience to wing loading ratios: they are far too politically correct. Given recent fatality rates, they probably should, just don't hold your breath.
The Australian Parachute Federation published flexible guidelines on this a few years ago. In Oz you need a recommendation from your Club Chief Instructor before you can move to the next heavier class of wing loading. Icarus have published similar guidelines on their website.
My original question asked people to relate number of jumps per year to the various APF wing loading classes.
I'm looking at both those canopies (Samurai and Vengence) as a replacement to my Cobalt. Put your input on them if you have an opinion
Are you looking at those two canopies because you think you will bet better performance than under your Cobalt, or are you looking to downsize or something? Personally, I wouldn't waste my money on a Vengeance for any reason. I had a 97 that I jumped about a week before I sold it. If you don't really want or need to downsize, then I recommend sending your Cobalt to Joe Bennet for the H-mod. $150 and it flies quite a bit different than stock. Steeper dives and more speed at the bottom end make Chuck a happy boy. It snivels a bit more, but that's fine with me. If you want to buy a NEW canopy, look at the competition cobalt. It is simply outstanding and flies circles around a stock Cobalt (which flies circles around the Vengeance).
(o) i got a iq of 189 so there 