Just wondering if there is one for distance. I know that there have been a couple of ladies with their card, but is there an actual official women's distance or speed record?
Would that one be farther and faster than the mens record? that would be cool, then we don't have to compete with Kaz any more, she is in a class of her own.
I figured that since there are records for everything now and us chicks are starting so set our own class of them (VRW, RW, etc), we should start our own swoop records. Sure it might not be as impressive as the guys but it's a record. I for one love busting out a long swoop (300'+) and being able to yell "Not bad for a chick, eh?
I hear you, but I'm not in favor of splitting the sexes in this sport. I don't really see the point. There are no real restrictions physically for us not to be able to do the same things as the guys, in the various disciplines... Maybe it takes us longer to get to the same w/l for swooping, and there are some additional challenges in getting to that 2.7 w/l(LEAD!!!), downsizing to scary small canopies.. but I for one, am not for it. Seems to me in a progressive sport like skydiving, we'd be going backwards as women....but that's just my opinion.
I agree to a certain extent. Given that most of us are smaller, it is very difficult to achieve the same wingloading as the guys. For example, I am jumping an 81 x-brace and am loading at 1.74 with my full camera gear. I can strap on 16lbs and still only have a loading of 1.87. For me to fly a canopy with a loading of 2.0, it would have to be either a 69 or 22lbs of lead. Yikes!
Why???? Is there a reason you or any other women can not perform as good as the best male swoopers???? Why degrade yourself to that??? That is bullshit to say that... you have the ability to peform just as well.... except for the lack of experience... but no one should expect to bypass that untill they have earned it.
I hear you, but I'm not in favor of splitting the sexes in this sport. I don't really see the point. There are no real restrictions physically for us not to be able to do the same things as the guys, in the various disciplines... Maybe it takes us longer to get to the same w/l for swooping, and there are some additional challenges in getting to that 2.7 w/l(LEAD!!!), downsizing to scary small canopies.. but I for one, am not for it. Seems to me in a progressive sport like skydiving, we'd be going backwards as women....but that's just my opinion.
On average women are shorter than men and weigh less.
Since weight is a cubic function of height and surface area only a square function women's shorter average height means a lower average sectional density (this shows up as small people falling slower) that limits their terminal velocity and hurts their L/D ratio. Added mass to compensate is limited by the rules for safety reasons and unfairly increases density without drag.
Since line thickness and seam size dosn't decrease when canopies get smaller, at a given wingloading the average woman has a decreased L/D ratio compared to the average man from just the canopy. This could be fixed (200 pound HMA? Less space between the two needles of a double needle machine sewing seems) but hasn't been.
This only addresses the physics of the situation. One could make arguments that short of the pro-swooping tour the difficulty in controlling a physically smaller wing at the same wingloading needs to be accounted for.
Weight classes like boxers have would be gender neutral and fairer though because a guy like Luigi isn't going to go as far as a dude like JC.
(This post was edited by DrewEckhardt on Jun 18, 2008, 12:26 AM)
Why???? Is there a reason you or any other women can not perform as good as the best male swoopers???? Why degrade yourself to that??? That is bullshit to say that... you have the ability to peform just as well.... except for the lack of experience... but no one should expect to bypass that untill they have earned it.
Physics with average height males and females.
(This post was edited by DrewEckhardt on Jun 18, 2008, 12:21 AM)
I hear you !! I have some room left as I am heavier and can still (with time) downsize and go to x-brace as I am now just starting to fly a 97 Katana ... Perhaps weight classes or in our case w/l divisions would be the answer to even things out and give more women the opportunity and perhaps incentive to get into the discipline and compete.
Hmmm, weight classes. Now we're getting somewhere. I didn't mean to suggest that we split into our own division because I for one like showing up the guys. Yes, the physics of body size does come into play; we all know that there becomes a point where small wings start to become inefficient and, even though it would have a higher wing loading, you kill your swoop due to lack of lift. Perhaps having different weight classes would help eliminate some of this problem and indeed excite more women into swooping. This could be a good thing!
we all know that there becomes a point where small wings start to become inefficient and, even though it would have a higher wing loading, you kill your swoop due to lack of lift.
I thought i knew that... until i saw Jay Mo fly a 79 loaded probably around 2.7(?) and go pretty damn fast and far
Jay will also tell you he can go REALLY far on the 71 IF he hits it just right.
The problem with the smaller wings isn't their ability to generate energy, it's with the fact that the window gets so small that errors by the pilot destroy the energy quickly.
I watched Jay-mo go 500 feet in Colorado (straight and level) on a speed run PRIOR to the weight restrictions at a loading of 3.5 or 3.2 (can't remember).
About a 3-4 second swoop, REALLY fast touch down, but good god was he screaming across the course.
It's really quite something to see.
Blues, Ian
(This post was edited by ianmdrennan on Jun 18, 2008, 7:42 AM)
okay okay - let's keep this thread on topic, shall we?? what do you PRO PST/CPC guys think about the weight class idea to get more women involved / reduce the intimidation ?? Is it something we can incorporate into a potential new format since we seem to be heading into a new era???
I was not aware this was seriously discussed before - as you know, I am a noob.... so what comes first .. the new competitors or the new classes...?? If there is serious interest in getting more pilots to compete in potentially new and amended formats, then why not change the comp formats to include w/l classes and reinvent it to be potentially more inclusive??? I realize this topic requires face time for explanations (and lots of beer/Vodka etc.) to hash out but it might be the shot in the arm to get newer swoopers (and who of you guys wouldn't like to see more swooperchicks) to compete??
I was not aware this was seriously discussed before - as you know, I am a noob....
Sorry, I didn't mean to come off blunt
The major problem with implementing the classes first is that it splits the already VERY limited cash pot into even less.
Also, take a look at folks like Brian and Craig, these guys kick ass as pilots and yet they aren't the biggest guys either (sorry Brian and Craig, no disrespect intended). I'm not sure we even need the seperation.
Oh, and you also gotta take into account folks like big steve and dan. There aren't too many people that big - so it'd be no fun for them compete against only each other.
agreed, if the divisions do not bring more bodies to the meets, then it provides no benefit to the swooping arena and make it more complex than it has to be. The thought only holds up IF it would provide more incentive for lower w/l pilots to want to try out a comp that they may have avoided because of the intimidation. I would suggest perhaps that ONE comp be done this way, heavily advertised as being a 2 division comp ( say under and over 2.0 w/l ) and just see where that gets us. If it get's done, just once, I will personally put up the purse for the under 2.0 w/l class and we know darn well I have little chance of holdig on to it. ..... there, I put my money where my mouth is.
The super-heavyweight class would have like 2 or 3 people.
Its still a lot of fun with the little guys beat you with smooth technique and its fun when you float past their marker because you're on a "3-digit wing."
Yes, the physics of body size does come into play; we all know that there becomes a point where small wings start to become inefficient and, even though it would have a higher wing loading, you kill your swoop due to lack of lift.
This could be argued to be a detriment for people on smaller canopies in distance events. Other events it would have little to no effect on such as speed, accuracy, and freestyle events. In the speed events, the smaller wings would actually have an advantage.
In addition to JayMo's distance record, Nick Batsch also had an incredible swoop at sea level on a JVX 65 or 69 ish sized canopy. Jess Edgeington also kicks some ass on a 65 square footer.
what do you PRO PST/CPC guys think about the weight class idea to get more women involved / reduce the intimidation ?? Is it something we can incorporate into a potential new format since we seem to be heading into a new era??? 
