This weekend I've jumped my velo 96 after a cutaway I had a few weeks ago. I was complaining about the unpredictable hunting openings of the velo to this friend of mine and he offered me to fly his xaos 88.
So here's my impression: MY velo opens slower and keeps hunting for a long time. His xaos opens faster with just a little bit of hunting.
Now one jump is not near enough to indicate any results, but for the more experienced on both... are these typical behaviors of these two canopies?
My malfunction I believe was caused by a toggle fire, because the whole thing was twisted as soon as looked up, but I've been having a considerable number of twists after it opens and is hunting left and right. Good thing is that those kind of twists so far have been pretty tame and don't start spinning, so I've been able to undo them.
Re: [padu] Video comparing opening on a Velo and Xaos
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I have about 600 jumps on a 90 velo now but less than 100 on XAOS 27 (from 80 to 98 ft^2). I found that the velo has a much more powerful search or hunting than the XAOS. I think both open in a comparable amount of time but the XAOS opens in a much more docile fashion. Hope this helps
Re: [padu] Video comparing opening on a Velo and Xaos
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So here's my impression: MY velo opens slower and keeps hunting for a long time. His xaos opens faster with just a little bit of hunting.
I'm curious about the time factor -- although the design of those two canopies will be an important factor which I can't comment on.
I've got another crossbraced canopy (an FX), where I've fiddled a bit with slider pocket size and packing. When the opening took longer, the canopy had time to hunt back and forth, the outside cells getting air before the center cells, but the slider still staying right up.
When things were adjusted to speed up the opening a bit, but still soft, there seemed to be less time for the partially air filled canopy to hunt back and forth
(The attached video grab is just an example of probably just the end of that stage of inflation where the hunting happens.)
(Edit: brake settings can also be a significant factor, as not all settings are necessarily the same as factory specs)
(This post was edited by pchapman on Oct 26, 2009, 6:11 PM)
Re: [padu] Video comparing opening on a Velo and Xaos
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The opening seemed slow to me as well with your end cells inflating way before your nose. The slider is really staying up there. Ian had a great question, “stock slider?”. Packing may be a factor as I had slow-searching openings when I started jumping my Velo. What worked for me as suggested was to “not” pull the slider out in front of the nose as to steel air from it (if you will) and “not” roll the tail too much, four rolls works for me. Ian can elaborate much more than I if this may be an issue.
Re: [ianmdrennan] Video comparing opening on a Velo and Xaos
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My Velo 90 (not the competition) with HMA 500 and wingload 2.48 opens the same like the competition Velo from Ian. I must say that I take special care of the position of the slider during packing.
My previous one, also a 90ft² (same wingload but with a 750 lineset) had slower openings. The slider always got stuck at the cascade and I had to pull it down with the backrisers.
Regards,
Lucke
(This post was edited by Sabre1Lucke on Oct 27, 2009, 2:08 AM)
Re: [yoink] Video comparing opening on a Velo and Xaos
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Ok, very good responses...
- first, where can I find the stock dimensions for the slider? I'll compare with mine. I was jumping a velo 111 before this one, but it wasn't as bad as the 96. I bought this 96 used and I have less than 30 jumps on it and one cutaway already. The previous owner said the canopy had some patches done by PD the last time it was relined... so I don't know if they changed the slider.
- Ian's openings are really nice. I don't think I had one like that yet on my 96.
- looking at Ian's video, I didn't see him trying to drive the opening a lot... which you can see I am...
- when I pack the slider I tend to balance it and make the material symmetrical in front and behind the nose... I think I'll try to uncover the nose a bit more.
Re: [padu] Video comparing opening on a Velo and Xaos
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Not sure where to look or if it’s even on the website for the slider info. I would shoot them an email (w/ DOM & S/N) and you’ll get a quick response. Hopefully getting the nose out in front of the slider works… Blue Skies,
Re: [padu] Video comparing opening on a Velo and Xaos
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MY velo opens slower and keeps hunting for a long time
If this is really a problem for you, I wish I was in your shoes.
You said your cutaway was the result of a brake fire, so that's not related to the canopy. If it wants to hunt, let it hunt, what do you care?
Look at it this way - the canopy is designed to open slow, but as we know, any canopy can open hard at any time. What this means is that anything can happen when you throw out, and as such you need to be well clear of other jumpers for every opening. If it wants to hunt, or pick a new heading, just let it. Once the slider is down, you pick the new heading.
In terms of the 111, I knew a guy with a 111 who ordered it with a small slider. I guess they offered two choices, and he liked to quicker openings. The 111 you jumped may have had the smaller slider option. I don't know if they offered it for any other size.
As a general rule, always go the slower openings. If things go wrong and it opens harder than normal, you're starting off from 'slow' so a harder opening might just be 'normal'. The chances of the opening being slower than 'slow' are slim, but even if it happened, I'd hardly call it a 'problem'.
Re: [davelepka] Video comparing opening on a Velo and Xaos
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I don't care about the hunting, the problem is that more often than not, the hunting ends in a twist. All of them so far I've been able to undo because they didn't start spinning, but I'm not really comfortable under a canopy that I cannot steer, especially after opening.
Re: [padu] Video comparing opening on a Velo and Xaos
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I don't care about the hunting, the problem is that more often than not, the hunting ends in a twist. All of them so far I've been able to undo because they didn't start spinning, but I'm not really comfortable under a canopy that I cannot steer, especially after opening.
Agreed. Excessive hunting is going to increase your chance of linetwists. The canopy is extremely hard to steer when the slider is stuck up at the top.
Re: [padu] Video comparing opening on a Velo and Xaos
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My Velo hunts around, and changes heading all the time during the snivel. I do grab my risers on opening, but not to 'steer' the openings. It's something I've always done, and with the Velo what I do is spread the risers outwards (I'm holding the front and rear at the same time). My thinking is that the further apart they are, the less likey the lines will cross over and twist.
The other thing I do is just go with the canopy. I give zero resistance to where the canopy wants to go. If you start to try and 'steer' things, you're trying to go one way. and the canopy wants to go the other, and that sounds like line twists to me. I just sit square in the harness, and pretend that the heading doesn't exist. Al long as me and the canopy are facing the same way, I consider that to be 'on heading'.
Again, I think it's a function of having a giant slider and shooting for a slooow opening. The more time you spend with the slider up, the more time the canopy has to hunt around. I'm sure that being at higher WL doesn't help at that stage either. Personally I like the slow openings and high WL, so I live with it.
I will say this, that after a reline the openings are much smoother and cleaner, but after things 'break in', it gets a little more 'free form'.
Re: [davelepka] Video comparing opening on a Velo and Xaos
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I friend of mine did +/-30 jumps with my Velo 90. I myself fly it at a wingload 2.48 - 2.5. He is on a wingload of 2.0 under that canopy.
When we compared the openingsequence it was obvious that the canopy hunts much more when he jumped it. The snivel takes much more time and it took also a lot more time for the slider to come down.
Re: [Sabre1Lucke] Video comparing opening on a Velo and Xaos
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I myself fly it at a wingload 2.48 - 2.5. He is on a wingload of 2.0 under that canopy.
When I say openings at 'higher WL' I'm not talking about the difference between 2.0 and 2.4. What I mean is that a Velo with a long snivel at a WL of 2.0+ is going to be more 'lively' during the snivel as compared to, say, a Spectre at 1.4. Both canopies have a long snivel, but the WL on Velo is going to notch up the 'fun factor'.
In your example, unless the same person packed the canpoy for all the jumps, and the deployments were all at the same airspeed, the conclusion is far from scientific. My buddy flies a 79 at 2.5+, and his canopy opens great every time. Very long snivel, and good heading maintenence.
Re: [ianmdrennan] Video comparing opening on a Velo and Xaos
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I don't care about the hunting, the problem is that more often than not, the hunting ends in a twist. All of them so far I've been able to undo because they didn't start spinning, but I'm not really comfortable under a canopy that I cannot steer, especially after opening.
Agreed. Excessive hunting is going to increase your chance of linetwists. The canopy is extremely hard to steer when the slider is stuck up at the top.
Ian
hell, quit trying to steer it, just enjoy the ride!
it is a high performance canopy after all.
they tend to throw you around more when you pay too much attention to them. just relax and let them hunt, they will eventually come back to where they belong.
Re: [marks] Video comparing opening on a Velo and Xaos
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I had the opportunity to talk to Ian Bobo on a few occasions this summer about velocity openings. He mentioned that most of the velocities come with the same size stock slider, but that you can request the "smaller" slider- which will speed up the opening and reduce snivels if you fly any of the smaller velocities. I can't really elaborate, but perhaps this is a solution to your slow opening velocity...
FX hunting.jpg
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