I did contact the DZO, and the initial response i recieved was;
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The rule is no low turns. Anyturn below 500 feet in excess of 90 degrees that takes less than 5 seconds is not tolerated. We have had three incidents in the last couple of months and don't want to take anybody else to the hospital. Thank you, Kathy
Which was not quite clear enough, so I asked if I start my turn from above 500 feet and it lasted longer that 5 seconds would that be O.k.?\
they answered;
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No we can't accept turns like that. Thank you, Bill Dause
So I guess swooping is all over at lodi?
some have said to me that it could not be, there are too many 'shithot' skydivers there to ban high performance turns, they do $5 hop 'n' pops, swooping is the #1 reason people do hop 'n' pops nowdays.
Has anyone been there recently? is it just a storm in a teacup, or do I go and pay a little more per jump elesewhere for our 300 jump tickets we want to purchase and get to use my JVX for the purpose it was intended for?
I was out there last weekend. No turns over 90 degrees and at least three seconds of straight in flight after completing turn. If you did not head the restrictions, you would be fired. So that meant fun jumpers and employees.
I find it interesting when apparent non-swoopers or non-modern swoopers make rules to ban swooping with comments like "Anyturn below 500 feet in excess of 90 degrees that takes less than 5 seconds is not tolerated."
If I made a high performance turn in excess of 90 degrees under 500ft I would impact the earth in a spectacular manner. That is the same for a large number of swoopers on highly loaded canopies.
What he is saying is that above 500ft, you can do whatever you wish. once below that, you have to keep it 90 degrees or less. The reason he said a time limit is to keep you from saying "I did 3 90 degree turns." I think Bill understands just fine what he specified.
Re: [LongWayToFall] Swooping in Lodi?
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What he is saying is that above 500ft, you can do whatever you wish. once below that, you have to keep it 90 degrees or less. The reason he said a time limit is to keep you from saying "I did 3 90 degree turns." I think Bill understands just fine what he specified.
Your wrong. Anything over a 90 onto final will not be tolerated.
I find it interesting when apparent non-swoopers or non-modern swoopers make rules to ban swooping with comments like "Anyturn below 500 feet in excess of 90 degrees that takes less than 5 seconds is not tolerated."
When you have your own drop zone you can make your own rules. Until then, listen to what is said, or jump somewhere else......
I think what Dave is referring to is that description of turn as a swoop and how it gives modern real swoopers a bad name. But then we all know all kinds of people bust them selves up on a canopy from ultra current modern super swoopers to the unskilled under lightly loaded canopies that would turn much lower than Dave ever would. Someone wanted a definition of low turn at Lodi and thats what they got.
Everybody has their threshold. I guess enough is enough for Lodi.
Re: [LongWayToFall] Swooping in Lodi?
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Dude, at sea level I'm turning from about 800ft and that's just a 270. There are guys like Marat that are turning in the neighborhood of 1000ft with a long multirotational turn.
I find it interesting when apparent non-swoopers or non-modern swoopers make rules to ban swooping with comments like "Anyturn below 500 feet in excess of 90 degrees that takes less than 5 seconds is not tolerated."
When you have your own drop zone you can make your own rules. Until then, listen to what is said, or jump somewhere else......
Yeah, no shit. As much as i dont want to see rules like that, I gotta agree. Bill Dause has his own ideas how things should be done and makes his own rules, always have and always will. He's been in the sport just about longer then anyone here and has how many? 35K+ skydives? oh and he OWNS the place too So "no swoop forr you!"
Well I wasn't talking about when you initiate the turn, but after you are done turning and coming straight in. If you were turning going through 500ft obviously you would be directly violating the rules. On my boat of a canopy, if there is nobody around, I'm going to spin until my eyes pop out! haha
When you have your own drop zone you can make your own rules. Until then, listen to what is said, or jump somewhere else......
That is exactly what we will do! For me the swoop is a major part of a skydive, $13.50 jump tickets is the only reason we chose Lodi to do our training, now we will choose somewhere else.
I can Imagine we will not be the only people that will decide not to jump there because of this rule.
It is a real shame, I can understand the frustrations of Bill and kathy, but i am sure many will decide not to jump there.
'Almost' all the jumpers I know that have more than 1000 jumps, are making high performance turns for landing. I cvan imagine there are many Lodi locals that are most frustrated with this ruling.
Did they ever try having a separate controlled landing area for swooping?
not in all cases by for the most part when someone hooks themselves in, they have been putting themselves in the corner consistantly prior to the accident, these people should be taken aside or grounded untill they learn to respect what theya are doing.
Swooping need not be scary to watch but all too often it is.
This is a real shame but I am quite happy to pay $5 more per jump elsewher in order to swoop my JVX.
I am quite happy to pay $5 more per jump elsewher in order to swoop my JVX.
Hey if you find a DZ that charges 10 bucks for a hop and pop, let me know, ok? ;) Seriously, welcome to 2008. there are no more cheap hop and pops and 18 and even 20 dollar jumps are long gone, a thing of the past never to return. You'll be lucky if you find a place with $15 H&Ps. Hell, i'd be happy to pay 18 to do a hop and pop, but i cant.... at my dz there are no more hop and pops period.
But thats off topic... I do share all your concerns though.
(This post was edited by frost on May 9, 2008, 4:20 PM)
Yeah, no shit. As much as i dont want to see rules like that, I gotta agree. Bill Dause has his own ideas how things should be done and makes his own rules, always have and always will. He's been in the sport just about longer then anyone here and has how many? 35K+ skydives? oh and he OWNS the place too Smile So "no swoop forr you!"
I wasn't arguing that it wasn't his right as the owner to make rules of the sort. I'm a big fan of put up, shut up or move on when it comes to DZ's, their rules and politics.
I was simply referring to the verbiage in regards to the swoop ban.
Jump the pond and come over to Italy. In Molinella near bologna we have 12€ hop & pop tickets from the PAC and a swoop pond just in front of the hangar. Swoopers are welcome and have the right to choose the landing. Other skydivers have to choose othher landing areas if swoopers are around!! Swooping is not a crime and I can assure that we have loads of non skydivers sitting at the bar during weekends and checking out the swoopers.
thats right, i forgot Chicago. Still 10 bucks, eh? Facility wise it's the best place i've ever been to, and the way they ran last year's USPA Nats was just excellent. I guess if that price holds up this year, SDC should expect a lot more people willing to come for a week to do a bunch of cheap hop and pops. I really hope it stays at $10, but i seriously doubt it's financially viable.
Skydive Hawaii $8 dollars upjumper $5 dollars staff, of course spring and summer winds are 20-35mph come out and spend your money here and test you skill in some gnarly conditions, I was recently at lodi and I asked Bill in disbelief "no turns?" he threw my money back on the counter and told me to jump somewhere else if I want to do that, He even fired a couple of people when I was there for turns. Told them to leave and dont come back. SO it is serious, but hey come out to hawaii and jump at the most beautiful dz.
So "no swoop forr you!" 