Re: [leftfoot] Recovery Arc LONG vs SHORT
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The best thing you can do to learn how to swoop is spend a lot of time learning the fundamentals. That will help you out more then you know.
At that point, just about any canopy that is appropriate for your experience level would work for beginning the learning process. Personally I highly recommend the PD Sabre2; however, my opinion is influence, so please take a look at the Pilot and the Safire2.
Which ever you choose, please stay at an appropriate wingloading. Going faster in this stage of the game isn't the best way to learn. Being able to take it slow and build on learned experience and knowledge will make you a better canopy pilot much faster then trying to learn on something that you are behind before you even touch a front riser.
Good luck, get coaching and get a local canopy mentor!
Re: [leftfoot] Recovery Arc LONG vs SHORT
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1. Which is better for someone trying to learn high performance landings? A long or short recovery arc.
Both have advantages and both have disadvantages. Longer recovery arcs require earlier intevention on a botched swoop. Shorter recovery arcs require you to turn lower.
The best thing, honestly, is a good mentor (I know that's not what you asked but it bears repeating).
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2. Is there a canopy with a long recovery arc when loaded between 1.0 and 1.5?
By what standards? I jumped a 103 this weekend for the first time in a LONG time loaded at 1.8 - hardly what a lot of people would call a short recovery arc - but compared by my 84 loaded @ 2.5 it was short as all hell (and I hated it, but I need it for the dive)
edit: I see you're at Skydive Arizona - talk to Jeffro.
Blues, Ian
(This post was edited by ianmdrennan on Jun 29, 2008, 6:28 PM)
Re: [leftfoot] Recovery Arc LONG vs SHORT
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Not sure what the shortest recovery arc canopy is, but IMO the longest recovery arc is on the Velo.
I see your profile now says Raeford. Talk to the rigger there, he's a good pilot and has put a lot of time into canopy flight. Steven Singletary can introduce you.
Blues, Ian
(This post was edited by ianmdrennan on Jun 29, 2008, 7:43 PM)
Re: [ianmdrennan] Recovery Arc LONG vs SHORT
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thanks, Yea after you replied about eloy I noticed it's been a while since I have updated my profile. Yea I have a talked to a few people and I think I trust Rigger Robs advice over most. It's hard trying to find a person to trust or a good mentor/coach. Even the pro's are not always the best mentors/coaches.
Re: [leftfoot] Recovery Arc LONG vs SHORT
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2. Is it possible to get long recovery arc out of a canopy loaded between 1.0 and 1.5?
In theory of course yes, but it would not be practical.
WL is affecting recovery arc, so does line length, but the major factor is the air-resistance of your canopy. Most reason of having so long recovery arc on small hot-pocket rockets than drag of your canopy compares to the drag of your body.
Re: [leftfoot] Recovery Arc LONG vs SHORT
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Ron, IMO it is best for a new HPC pilot to start slow and concentrate on the fundamentals of the parachute flight and the dive to set up a high performance landing, regardless of parachute. Small steps are best when learning, so I would have to say a parachute that has a fast recovery arc is best; I would rather see a person plane out HIGH versus LOW! Any parachute you jump though can have a short AND long recovery arc. Think of it this way, completing a 90 versus a 180 (which by the way is a bad idea) or a 270. When you are comfortable performing these turns with a non crossed braced canopy, move on to something a bit more aggressive and do the same progression. Myself and GW have been through advanced HPC coaching with Jay Moledski this past winter, and we are ALWAYS open to share what we have learned. I am at Raeford all the time, please ask if you have questions before attempting something new. Good luck, be safe! Jefe
Re: [skydivejeff] Recovery Arc LONG vs SHORT
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Small steps are best when learning, so I would have to say a parachute that has a fast recovery arc is best;
Hello jefe. I dont have nearly as many jumps as you, but I have to disagree with you here.
In my limited experience learning to swoop with a canopy like stiletto or a hornet. (short recovery arc) is something I wouldnt recommend to anyone. Sure it will teach some of the fundamentals of swooping, but it will also teach you to bring your dive really low and you have less room for error this way. Also you will have to learn a much different looking "plane out picture" when moving on to a canopy with longer recovery arc and the danger is that you might have trouble forgetting what you learned with the previous canopy..
Maby something with a medium recovery arc is the canopy I would choose if I would start from the beginning again. This way you wont learn any bad habbits. IMO short recovery arc is not likely to save your butt. Its actually more likely to kick your butt..
Swooping a stiletto (or something similar) looks pretty ugly even if you are an experienced canopy pilot.. Wouldnt recommend it to anyone.
Please let me know what you think.
-Ville-
(This post was edited by BMFin on Jul 1, 2008, 4:18 PM)
Re: [BMFin] Recovery Arc LONG vs SHORT
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I completely agree that a hook turned stiletto is a scary site, I would recommend a sabre II or katana or similar before switching to something more high performance. As with the short vs long arc, I understand that a person has to initiate the set and turn MUCH lower to the ground than I like to be, but when learning how to do something new in our sport, remember we do it higher. Also, if a jumper finds themself in a dive too low to the ground, a shorter recovery arc will be your friend when trying to dig it out. Again, in my opinion. We could debate this until the beer light gets turned on. I think each jumper will have their own opinion until it is put to the test, and to tell ya the truth,that'll never happen. Thats why these forums are so great, we can debate all day long! Be safe out there! Jefe
Re: [skydivejeff] Recovery Arc LONG vs SHORT
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With you there.
Let's leave the Stilletto out of any comparisions; its a high performance canopy not designed with swooping in mind and is sensitive to toggle input.
Let's face it, it's much safer starting on a Safire2 or Sabre2 at 1.4 than a Katana at 1.4. Indeed, shorter recovery arcs can be useful when digging.
IMHO - and I'm keen to know what others think - you only get the benefits of a longer recovery arc when you perform bigger rotations. So what I initiate at 400ft on a Velo rather than 200ft on a Safire2? I can easily bail at any time, despite having only 200ft. Newbie swoopers shouldn't do more than a 90 for a while IMHO - too disorientating!
Re: [Pendragon] Recovery Arc LONG vs SHORT
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Let's face it, it's much safer starting on a Safire2 or Sabre2 at 1.4 than a Katana at 1.4.
I disagree with putting the Safire2 and Sabre2 in the same basket when it comes to recovery arc. I found the Safire2's recovery arc to be much shorter than the Sabre2's.
Just to quantify this a bit, in my opinion: - The recovery arc of a Safire2 @ 1.4 is shorter than that of a Sabre2 @ 1.25 - The recovery arc of that Sabre2 @ 1.25 is shorter than that of a Katana @ 1.25 - And: the magnitude of the differences is about the same.
I'll add as a disclaimer that I'm relatively low experience (so take my opinion for what it's worth) and I only have one jump on the Katana although that shouldn't really matter as my statement is mostly a comparison of the Sabre2 and Safire2's recovery arcs.
Re: [obadz] Recovery Arc LONG vs SHORT
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I think once you load up the saffire much more you can get it to do more...find me on sunday dave and I will work some drills with you to get you diving that safire properly...
