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Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
Problem- Safire 2

 

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Rstanley0312

United States
Jumps
License
In sport
: 136
: A 54562
: 1 years


Oct 6, 2008, 12:24 PM

Post #1 of 44 (1142 views)

Registered: Jun 30, 2008
Posts: 129

Problem- Safire 2 Can't Post

On opening my 4 left cells in the front do not inflate causing the canopy to make a hard left. I am loading it at a 1.1 and it now has 12 jumps on it. I had my rigger jump it as well and it did the same thing. I checked the lines for equal length and all is good. It was packed by three different people and still does it including my rigger and a packer with 15 years packing experience and several Safire 2's. I talked to Icarus and they are not really sure... worst case I send it in to them but I am looking for suggestions or a similar problem..... any help is appreciated.


AggieDave

United States
Jumps
License
In sport
: 2400
: D 
: 8 years


Oct 6, 2008, 12:29 PM

Post #2 of 44 (1135 views)

Registered: Feb 26, 2001
Posts: 34019

Re: [Rstanley0312] Problem- Safire 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

If its happening to others and you've eliminated all other aspects of your gear (incorrectly made risers for example), then your best bet is to send it back to the manufacture for inspection and jumps. Could be something goofy like some of the seams were sewn a little off or the cross ports weren't cut into a couple of the ribs.


Premier billvon
Moderator
United States
Jumps
License
In sport
: 5500
: D 16479
: 16 years


Oct 6, 2008, 12:51 PM

Post #3 of 44 (1121 views)

Registered: Apr 5, 2001
Posts: 41356

Re: [Rstanley0312] Problem- Safire 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

Please post your questions in one forum only. Crossposting is not allowed on these forums.


piahenzi

United States
Jumps
License
In sport
: 1750
: D 24484
: 9 years


Oct 6, 2008, 12:58 PM

Post #4 of 44 (1116 views)

Registered: Dec 3, 2003
Posts: 279

Re: [billvon] Problem- Safire 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

I advised him to try this forum as well, thinking that this forum in particular has the experienced canopy pilots that can probably be of immediate assistance to him. My regrets for causing him to get into trouble. Mea culpa.


Rstanley0312

United States
Jumps
License
In sport
: 136
: A 54562
: 1 years


Oct 6, 2008, 1:03 PM

Post #5 of 44 (1107 views)

Registered: Jun 30, 2008
Posts: 129

Re: [billvon] Problem- Safire 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry Bill.... I deleted the other ones. This is probably the forum for my question.


mircan

Yugoslavia
Jumps
License
In sport
: 580
: D 33
: 11 years


Oct 6, 2008, 1:13 PM

Post #6 of 44 (1097 views)

Registered: Sep 25, 2004
Posts: 242

Re: [Rstanley0312] Problem- Safire 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

Maybe underloading it? Although Icarus recommend WL in that range on Safire 2.
My Safire 2 did things like that. When it was brand new more often, now, from time to time. I had 2-3 end cell closure. I load it 1.6. 130 jumps on the canopy since new.

That is just my 2c. I`m not so experienced.

Also, I must concure with rest of the guys. Please don`t crosspost.

Blues!


Rstanley0312

United States
Jumps
License
In sport
: 136
: A 54562
: 1 years


Oct 6, 2008, 1:19 PM

Post #7 of 44 (1089 views)

Registered: Jun 30, 2008
Posts: 129

Re: [mircan] Problem- Safire 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

When I talked to Icarus today they said that should not be a problem but hearing that yours did it to start out makes me feel a bit better. I wondered if it was just a matter of breaking in but Icarus said no.... I just don't want to keep jumping it only to find out that it will continue to do it.

I get the crosspost thing! MY BAD... I'm sorry :( I deleted the other posts... just got confused where I should post it.

Blues


piisfish


Jumps
License
In sport
: 1539
:  4289
: 6 years


Oct 6, 2008, 1:19 PM

Post #8 of 44 (1088 views)

Registered: Feb 13, 2004
Posts: 10648

Re: [Rstanley0312] Problem- Safire 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

just suggesting some troubleshooting, but mayb already checked that (or you rigger/packers...) How is your pilot chute ?


Rstanley0312

United States
Jumps
License
In sport
: 136
: A 54562
: 1 years


Oct 6, 2008, 1:25 PM

Post #9 of 44 (1073 views)

Registered: Jun 30, 2008
Posts: 129

Re: [piisfish] Problem- Safire 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

That is the one thing I thought might be doing it. It is large and not collapsible. Other jumpers did tell me they can see the shoot dragging a bit and the PC pulling on the canopy. It is not the right PC for it at all but I am getting one with my new Vector so I am not going to buy a new one for the canopy but definitely something worth trying. Do you think that drag could be pulling so much that it prevents the cells from opening? Also it is always on the left side?


piisfish


Jumps
License
In sport
: 1539
:  4289
: 6 years


Oct 6, 2008, 1:29 PM

Post #10 of 44 (1067 views)

Registered: Feb 13, 2004
Posts: 10648

Re: [Rstanley0312] Problem- Safire 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not a rigger, nore an instructor, but I learned through time that PC's ARE important. Maybe ask your rigger what he thinks about it, if he has a spare Dbag properly sized for your container and canopy, a "better" sized collapsible PC, and if you could try this as part of the cure...

edited to add : what size canopy ?


(This post was edited by piisfish on Oct 6, 2008, 1:30 PM)


Rstanley0312

United States
Jumps
License
In sport
: 136
: A 54562
: 1 years


Oct 6, 2008, 1:32 PM

Post #11 of 44 (1065 views)

Registered: Jun 30, 2008
Posts: 129

Re: [piisfish] Problem- Safire 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

Good thoughts and I will try them out.... canopy is a 229. As you can see by my jump numbers I am trying to downsize properly and loading just over a one I think is where I need to be. Smile


piisfish


Jumps
License
In sport
: 1539
:  4289
: 6 years


Oct 6, 2008, 1:37 PM

Post #12 of 44 (1057 views)

Registered: Feb 13, 2004
Posts: 10648

Re: [Rstanley0312] Problem- Safire 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

ask him, but with a "big" canopy like that , it might not be a miracle solution.


Rstanley0312

United States
Jumps
License
In sport
: 136
: A 54562
: 1 years


Oct 6, 2008, 1:55 PM

Post #13 of 44 (1041 views)

Registered: Jun 30, 2008
Posts: 129

Re: [piisfish] Problem- Safire 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

Everyone always has to rip on the big canopy... HA Im a big boy damnit.... kidding of course I know you are not trying to offend. I just thought being 6'3 210-215 that I should not jump down to a 190. You would be suprised at how well it does respond once open with my weight.... I think it is good fun! :)


piisfish


Jumps
License
In sport
: 1539
:  4289
: 6 years


Oct 7, 2008, 2:10 AM

Post #14 of 44 (906 views)

Registered: Feb 13, 2004
Posts: 10648

Re: [Rstanley0312] Problem- Safire 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

what I meant was that the canopy is heavier, so it needs a large PC to extract it. Maybe the retraction can help though.


Rstanley0312

United States
Jumps
License
In sport
: 136
: A 54562
: 1 years


Oct 7, 2008, 6:51 AM

Post #15 of 44 (849 views)

Registered: Jun 30, 2008
Posts: 129

Re: [piisfish] Problem- Safire 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

Ya but the PC I am using is too big. I know that for a fact. I will be working on it this weekend... thanks for your help!


phoenixlpr

Finland
Jumps
License
In sport
: 972
: D 3049
: 9 years


Oct 7, 2008, 7:31 AM

Post #16 of 44 (838 views)

Registered: Jun 3, 2003
Posts: 4036

Re: [Rstanley0312] Problem- Safire 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

What size do you use?


Rstanley0312

United States
Jumps
License
In sport
: 136
: A 54562
: 1 years


Oct 7, 2008, 7:39 AM

Post #17 of 44 (833 views)

Registered: Jun 30, 2008
Posts: 129

Re: [phoenixlpr] Problem- Safire 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

229... loaded at a 1.1


phoenixlpr

Finland
Jumps
License
In sport
: 972
: D 3049
: 9 years


Oct 7, 2008, 8:08 AM

Post #18 of 44 (822 views)

Registered: Jun 3, 2003
Posts: 4036

Re: [Rstanley0312] Problem- Safire 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry, What size and kind of PC do you use?


Rstanley0312

United States
Jumps
License
In sport
: 136
: A 54562
: 1 years


Oct 7, 2008, 8:35 AM

Post #19 of 44 (811 views)

Registered: Jun 30, 2008
Posts: 129

Re: [phoenixlpr] Problem- Safire 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

Good question.... I am not sure as it is the one that came with the canopy. It is bigger than the PC I used for my 254 PD F-111. I was just excited to jump it so I went with what it had attached to it. Do you think that could be the cause?


dragon2

Netherlands
Jumps
License
In sport
: 1400
: D 101989
: 8 years


Oct 7, 2008, 9:04 AM

Post #20 of 44 (803 views)

Registered: Aug 8, 2001
Posts: 4054

Re: [Rstanley0312] Problem- Safire 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

PCs (and bags) come with the rig, not with the canopy.


Rstanley0312

United States
Jumps
License
In sport
: 136
: A 54562
: 1 years


Oct 7, 2008, 9:19 AM

Post #21 of 44 (794 views)

Registered: Jun 30, 2008
Posts: 129

Re: [dragon2] Problem- Safire 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes I know that but I jumped it with the PC that was with the rig I bought. Sorry not to be clear.... I bought this canopy with 2 jumps on it as part of a complete system. I wanted the expert Cypres in it and the canopy so when I unhooked the canopy from the rig and put it in mine I just left the d-bag and PC on it.


dragon2

Netherlands
Jumps
License
In sport
: 1400
: D 101989
: 8 years


Oct 7, 2008, 10:18 AM

Post #22 of 44 (765 views)

Registered: Aug 8, 2001
Posts: 4054

Re: [Rstanley0312] Problem- Safire 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

Like I said, you shouldn't have done that, unless the 2nd rig is the exact same as yours, you should use the bag and pc that came with the rig you're jumping. Risers too.


Rstanley0312

United States
Jumps
License
In sport
: 136
: A 54562
: 1 years


Oct 7, 2008, 10:35 AM

Post #23 of 44 (753 views)

Registered: Jun 30, 2008
Posts: 129

Re: [dragon2] Problem- Safire 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

It just so happens that it is the exact same rig with color differences. ;) I asked my rigger and he said it would be fine.


Premier ianmdrennan
Moderator
United States
Jumps
License
In sport
: 2500
: D 25821
: 11 years


Oct 7, 2008, 10:48 AM

Post #24 of 44 (737 views)

Registered: Mar 19, 2002
Posts: 4960

Re: [Rstanley0312] Problem- Safire 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

Lets keep this on track (it's bordering on Gear and Rigging anyway) - PC shouldn't effect your inflation end cell issues.

I would suggest that a rigger check your line trim according to Icarus charts, and then go from there.

Sending it back *might* be your only option if the trim is ok.

Blues,
Ian


(This post was edited by ianmdrennan on Oct 7, 2008, 10:49 AM)


Rstanley0312

United States
Jumps
License
In sport
: 136
: A 54562
: 1 years


Oct 7, 2008, 10:59 AM

Post #25 of 44 (731 views)

Registered: Jun 30, 2008
Posts: 129

Re: [ianmdrennan] Problem- Safire 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks Ian..... that is what the plan is for the weekend. This just sucks getting a canopy that only has 2 jumps on it (new) and it has problems. I appreciate everyones insight!

Blues,
Rob

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