Re: [Emu] Katana, Mamba, XF2 and Blade
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I've jumped everything there but the Blade. In fact I posted about it recently. Basically I rank in order of performance: 1) Katana, 2) XF2 and a distant 3) Mamba.
Having jumped a XF2 169, 149 and 139, a Katana 170, 150, 135 and a Mamba 150 and 135 is what I based my opinion on. However, I'm obviously biased to PD canopies so I would suggest you demo all of the canopies (assuming they're appropriate for your jump numbers, wingloading and ability) and make your own choice.
Re: [Emu] Katana, Mamba, XF2 and Blade
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I only jumped crossfire2's had 139 and now 119 they fly and open like butter. It felt that riser preasure on 139 was a bit on a heavy side but 119 feels good at 1.7 wl. Today requested to demo katana 120 will try to compare and see which one i like better. Seems like both are wonderfull and fun canopies to fly from what I read on dz.com. And can only speak highly about crossfires. Cheers!
Re: [Emu] Katana, Mamba, XF2 and Blade
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As Aggiedave, I have tried all but the Blade.
My order of preference in how the performance (and fun factor) felt to me was somewhat different!
1. Mamba 2. Katana 3. XF2 (by a reasonable margin)
I ended up with a Katana mind you, but that was impatience - the Katana was available 2nd hand immediately, the mamba would have had to be new and was a 12 week wait.
I think the biggest thing to take away from this is that they all 'feel' remarkably different so there is absolutely no substitute for trying them out with demos.
I have long been an avid supporter of Aerodyne products despite dismal at best business dealings...(more to come) but I have recently demoed 2 mambas - a 132 then a 124 - the 132 was reevaluated after somethings i noticed and was sent to be examined by aerodyne...the 124 demo scares the sh#t out of me. I have never been at the mercy of a canopy before like this one. It was to the point of praying for a hard opening because that would mean less time for the thing to toss me around like a rag doll and fly wherever it wanted. I will be posting a video midweek on youtube or skydiving movies to be analyzed by those of you who know MUCH more than myself. I WANT to believe the product is good but I have yet to see anything resembling fun or safe :( (and im most likely getting an xf2 129 though i will still demo a katana 120 before i make a final decision)
i have jumped all but the blade as well, in various different sizes from the 169 xfire all the way down to the 99xfire2, the kats i have jumped from the 135 down to the 107, the mambas from the 150 to the 117. of all i like the mamba the best as far as what i thought prepared me best for xbraced flight. the controls to me are remarkably similar and the flight characterisics hold true to a more high performance canopy. personal opinion but i felt i had more total flight range out of the mamba and as far as pure fun factor it was right there. i had to put an rds on my mamba 117 to get it to fly right but once i did that the thing was giving me mad distance and awesome turf surf. try them all though, everyone's flying style is different so what i like may not be what you like
Re: [Emu] Katana, Mamba, XF2 and Blade
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ok the katana and the crossfire2 are close for swoop distance.
i would say the katana edges out the crossfire2 but its close. i prefer the crossfire2
the blade is nice but it has a super short recovery arch but it flys and swoops well it wont swoop as far as a katana or a crossfire2
anyone saying the mamba out performs a katana or crossfire2 is way on the bias side.
the mamaba no way will swoop as far as a katana or crossfire2 impossible. they dont tolerate the higher loading and they loose lift big time.
now they do whip you around and are super reactive if you love that performance then sure mamba does that.
mamba is a fin canopy and they open pretty good and you can swoop them but they recover short and they dont have the distance or the flare the katana or crossfire2 have.
if you put jay modezki on a crossfire2, a katana, and a mamba and gave him 10 swoops on each it wouldnt be close.
it would be the katana, crossfire2 and distant mamba.
the best opening is the crossfire2 by far, best glide in the swoop crossfire2. best dive and speed the katana and you can flare a katana and crossfire2 to your ankles and it will still fly dont try that with a mamba.
rear risers on crossfire2 and katana big time, mamba dont push them to far or to long.
One thing is someones flying style but you put a good crossfire2 or katana pilot against a good mamba pilot
no contest.
i went from crossfire2 to a xaos27, if i came from a katana i be flying a velo. chris
the 124 demo scares the sh#t out of me. I have never been at the mercy of a canopy before like this one. It was to the point of praying for a hard opening because that would mean less time for the thing to toss me around like a rag doll and fly wherever it wanted.
Not to be rude but it sounds like pilot error to me. I have about 30 jumps on that same demo mamba 124. It opened great, on heading 95% of the time. [edit: just broke out the log book, it was 37 jumps =P]
You can't fault a high performance canopy for bad body position. It isn't a pilot 124, it opens in super deep brakes. If your not staying square it is going to make it very apparant. So will a Katana, or a Xfire2, or a Blade! If you can't manage your openings then maybe you should reconsider the higher performance canopies.
I will have to try the XF2 again myself. I put a few jumps on one and I thought it had a much shorter recovery arc than the Katana or the Mamba. Every one seems to think otherwise so I definetly am going to have to give it another try.
(This post was edited by DougH on Mar 31, 2008, 3:04 PM)
Re: [AggieDave] Katana, Mamba, XF2 and Blade
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I've jumped everything there but the Blade. In fact I posted about it recently. Basically I rank in order of performance: 1) Katana, 2) XF2 and a distant 3) Mamba.
Are you sure you're talking about the Mamba? In the other Katana vs. Mamba post, you called the Mamba "a Stiletto that opens better". This leads me to believe you actually jumped a Vision. The Mamba is a very steeply trimmed canopy. I don't see how you could confuse it for a Stiletto.
I do not find your post rude, like I said I am wanting to like the canopy it's just not making it easy for me, lol. And 28 out of 30 jumps have been marginal at best and I have had other (respectable) pilots watch my openings. Body position, packing and whatnot are ruled out. It does open in VERY deep breaks it seems. It screams aroud and I have to do opposite RR input (or harness) to equalize it to give me time to undo my cheststrap, slider, etc. At this point, breaks still stowed - it rocks me back and forth (symmetrical body position and harness) - there is also noticable slack in my RR in breaks. Once released it flys fine but some of the cells do not fully pressurize and you can see them in my video flapping around (which i have yet to put up - prolly tomorrow). Any other idea? I have had no such issues and absolutely love the xf2 - yet to fly a katana....
Re: [CKSCUBA] Katana, Mamba, XF2 and Blade
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mamba is a fin canopy and they open pretty good and you can swoop them but they recover short and they dont have the distance or the flare the katana or crossfire2 have.
I must be out of my mind. I do a 180 on my Mamba from between 400-450 feet. It's a slow turn, but still.
Re: [ficus] Katana, Mamba, XF2 and Blade
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Are you sure you're talking about the Mamba? In the other Katana vs. Mamba post, you called the Mamba "a Stiletto that opens better". This leads me to believe you actually jumped a Vision. The Mamba is a very steeply trimmed canopy. I don't see how you could confuse it for a Stiletto.
Well the canopy's tag said Mamba and the silkscreen said Mamba, the company rep said it was a Mamba. So either I had a Mamba or the company has a serious problem. Knowing Aerodyne's good track record and reputation, I'm going to assume that I had the correct canopy.
I'm sorry that my opinion of a canopy isn't the same as your opinion. Have you jumped the same sized Katana and the sized XF2 (well, "same" size minus that single square foot ).
Its ok to have a difference in opinion. Thats why there's more then one canopy available from more then one manufacture and I highly recommend that whom ever is looking to purchase a canopy demo everything that is appropriate.
I have maybe 5 jumps on a XF2. The recovery arc was too short for my taste, but I plan on trying it again when I am ready to load it at 1.6 or higher. I was loading the one I jumped at 1.3-ish, which is below recommended, so I don't really count it as a strike against the canopy.
My opening speed problems with the Mamba disappeared when I stopped touching my risers on opening.
Re: [AggieDave] Katana, Mamba, XF2 and Blade
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The canopy's tag said Mamba and the silkscreen said Mamba, the company rep said it was a Mamba.
OK, OK :)
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I'm sorry that my opinion of a canopy isn't the same as your opinion. Have you jumped the same sized Katana and the sized XF2 (well, "same" size minus that single square foot ).
I have 300+ jumps on two Mamba 132s, and a little over 50 KA-135 jumps. And a couple on a XF2 139 (summary above in the post).
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Its ok to have a difference in opinion. Thats why there's more then one canopy available from more then one manufacture and I highly recommend that whom ever is looking to purchase a canopy demo everything that is appropriate.
No disagreement here. To each his own. But I found the recovery arc of the Mamba and the Katana to be almost identical in altitude, if not in "shape", so it's hard for me to explain that away as just opinion.
Re: [ficus] Katana, Mamba, XF2 and Blade
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Ok, then maybe the difference was in our wingloadings and how the canopies respond at those wingloadings. That would be a valid explanation.
They were all loaded 1.7 to 2.1 depending on their sizes. Stilettos were from 1.7 to 1.9. They won't send me a Katana 210 to get a 1.3-ish wingloading.
Then again, if someone is loading under about 1.5 I really think they would be better served by jumping a Sabre2, Safire2 or a Pilot then a XF2, Katana or Mamba.
(This post was edited by AggieDave on Mar 31, 2008, 3:37 PM)
My main canopy is now a Mamba 104 and I have about 400 jumps on it at just under a 2 wingloading.
For me its the most high performance and most fun of the 3 followed by the Katana then the XF2 (but i have done more jumps on it)
I think a lot of this depends on your terms of reference. I have about 2000 jumps on Vel 103's and 96's and found the Mamba very easy to fly with a great landing - the openings are the best of any high performance canopy I've jumped.
I did a couple of training camps with a Mamba 104 in one rig and a Ve96/103 in the other and it wasn't a drama with turn heights etc so I believe it loses a lot of height during the turn.
What I've noticed is that people jumping these very high performance canopies for the first time say that the Mamba is very twitchy - i prefer to use the term responsive.
People who are used to jumping very high performance canopies tend to prefer the Mamba.
Re: [AggieDave] Katana, Mamba, XF2 and Blade
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Then again, if someone is loading under about 1.5 I really think they would be better served by jumping a Sabre2, Safire2 or a Pilot then a XF2, Katana or Mamba.
Just out of curiosity, is this recommendation the same regardless of canopy size? i.e., would you recommend the same thing if a 1.5 loading meant a 150-170 sq ft canopy and if a 1.5 loading meant a 90-100 sq ft canopy?
(Note: I'm not arguing, disagreeing, or changing canopies, I'm just wondering )
Re: [AllisonH] Katana, Mamba, XF2 and Blade
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is this recommendation the same regardless of canopy size? i.e., would you recommend the same thing if a 1.5 loading meant a 150-170 sq ft canopy and if a 1.5 loading meant a 90-100 sq ft canopy?
That's a good point. I would say its for the "average" jumper, putting them in the 120-230sq ft range. Obviously what I know about smaller jumpers jumping very small canopies at surprisingly light wingloadings has nothing to do with my experience.
Re: [Emu] Katana, Mamba, XF2 and Blade
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garywain
wow you went from a velo to a mamba?? they you must have been surprised about the twitchy mamba compared to the velo. and the lack of flare well compared to a velo.
if you load katana, crossfire2 and a mamaba at 2.0 there is no way in hell!!!!!! a mamba will out dive a crossfire2 or a katana.
sorry its a fact as far as an overall fun canopy i think the mamba would be the overall fun canopy.
its like a diablo, a stileto, a little like the vision, and like the blade.
the mamba opens good. the crossfire2 opens the softest another fact.
the katana dives harder then any other noncrossbraced thats a fact.
mambas lines are shorter then the crossfire2 or the katana.
if i like the velo style i like the katana. if i like the vx or the xaos27 i like the crossfire2
i think the cobalt is close to the mamab. i can out swoop myself on a cobalt then i can on a mamba. mamba opens better then the cobalt half track two stage opening
but ill tell you the cobalt and the mamba are right behind the crossfire2 and katana as far as pure swoop competition performance.
you never see a mamba at a swoop competition you do see katana's and crossfire2 for the non crossbraced.
the mamba and cobalt are very reactive twitchier fun canopies that you can swoop the hell out of.
again you put jay moledski on the 4 canopies and gave him ten swoops each on each mamba, crossfire cobalt and katana like a motocross shoot out
Re: [AggieDave] Katana, Mamba, XF2 and Blade
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Ok, then maybe the difference was in our wingloadings and how the canopies respond at those wingloadings. That would be a valid explanation.
Fair enough. We can revisit this when I am ready for the 104 :)
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Then again, if someone is loading under about 1.5 I really think they would be better served by jumping a Sabre2, Safire2 or a Pilot then a XF2, Katana or Mamba.
I jumped Sabre2s until I tried the Mamba. Once I had experienced that long dive, I didn't want to go back. Even the XF2 seemed too shallow to me. I just feel a lot safer with that long dive, time to take a breath, put my hands on my rears, and weigh my options.
But it is fun crack. 
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