Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Amending the pull priority list

 

 

petetheladd  (D License)

Jun 16, 2004, 10:03 AM
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Amending the pull priority list Can't Post

We have all heard the "in order of priority" list of

1) pull
2) pull at the correct altitude
3) pull at the correct altitude with stability

However should'nt this have a forth variable i.e. speed added and the list amended to look maybe like -

1) pull
2) pull at the correct altitude
3) pull at the correct altitude after slowing to the correct speed
4) pull at the correct altitude with stability after slowing to the correct speed

or maybe get rid of 3) above and replace it with 4) as we tend to like lists of 3 items apiece

Let the debate begin ......

PTL

jlmiracle  (D License)

Jun 16, 2004, 10:08 AM
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Re: [petetheladd] Amending the pull priority list [In reply to] Can't Post

I fly on my belly so do my AFF students so slowing (de-arching) will only make my student unstable.

Judy

Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jun 16, 2004, 10:10 AM
Post #3 of 11 (1544 views)
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Re: [petetheladd] Amending the pull priority list [In reply to] Can't Post

If you're going to do that it would have to be:

1. Slow down to the correct speed
2. Pull
etc.

Slowing down has to come before the rest if damage is to be avoided. But that seems like a bad thing to put second; I would amend it to "do not exceed the rated limits of your gear" and then keep the pull stuff in its original order.

thelem  (C 103786)

Jun 16, 2004, 10:11 AM
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Re: [jlmiracle] Amending the pull priority list [In reply to] Can't Post

Agreed. So the last two should probably be something like:

3. Pull at the correct altitude and a reasonable speed (<130mph)

FrogNog  (C 34484)

Jun 16, 2004, 12:46 PM
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Re: [petetheladd] Amending the pull priority list [In reply to] Can't Post

Next you'll say to pull in the correct orientation, like not head-down (at 120 MPH).

catfishhunter  (D 28796)

Jun 16, 2004, 1:50 PM
Post #6 of 11 (1402 views)
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Re: [petetheladd] Amending the pull priority list [In reply to] Can't Post

They make sense as they are.
My take on them

1) pull --do this no matter what
2) pull at the correct altitude- do this no matter what-i.e enough altitude for the parachute open no matter what
3) pull at the correct altitude with stability-- if we are doing things right then this is what we do every jump. and if you are pulling with stabillity at the right altitude speed shouldn't be an issue.

If speed is an issue see 1 and 2.-- Speed doesn't matter if you skipped 3 and are stuck with 2. if it is to late for 2 you better just start pulling everything and prayWink

fundgh  (C 34140)

Jun 16, 2004, 3:22 PM
Post #7 of 11 (1371 views)
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Re: [petetheladd] Amending the pull priority list [In reply to] Can't Post

Stable could imply good body position and speed.

Which is more important: body position or speed?

If you are flat and falling at 150+, what else can you do?

MakeItHappen

Jun 16, 2004, 3:36 PM
Post #8 of 11 (1362 views)
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Re: [petetheladd] Amending the pull priority list [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
We have all heard the "in order of priority" list of

1) pull
2) pull at the correct altitude
3) pull at the correct altitude with stability

However should'nt this have a forth variable i.e. speed added and the list amended to look maybe like -

1) pull
2) pull at the correct altitude
3) pull at the correct altitude after slowing to the correct speed
4) pull at the correct altitude with stability after slowing to the correct speed

or maybe get rid of 3) above and replace it with 4) as we tend to like lists of 3 items apiece

I think your proposition implicitly indicates an incorrect interpretation of the priority list.

The list of
1) pull
2) pull at the correct altitude
3) pull at the correct altitude with stability

is not a list of what you do in order on a jump from the start of a jump to its conclusion.

It is a list of the bare minimum actions to do before you land, crash or hit the ground at a high rate of speed. It is not a priority task list of things to do in such-n-such order from exit to landing. It is a priority list of what you must do before landing.

Think of it this way:
Regular RW type jump:
1. exit ac
2. go to 2nd point (or grip switch to first point)
3. go to next point
4. go to next point
5. repeat from top of page
6. break-off
7. track to assigned pull altitude
8. wave-off
9. pull
10. check for good canopy
11. determine landing point
12. set up for landing pattern with traffic clearance
13. fly in for final and flare
14. land safely, PLF if necessary

OTOH the priority list of:
1) pull
2) pull at the correct altitude
3) pull at the correct altitude with stability

kicks in when

1. you find yourself doing 4-way below 2K and immediately pull
2. you are a student tumbling thru the sky at 2900 ft and immediately pull
3. you are any jumper caught up with a distraction with the main deployment, realize it's 1500 ft and pull your reserve, no matter what body position you are in or fall rate you have
4. you are doing a solo FF jump and your dirt alert flat lines, you pull immediately
5. etc

IOW, the priority list of
1) pull
2) pull at the correct altitude
3) pull at the correct altitude with stability
is an emergency procedure, not a dive flow of a normal jump. All of us non-CRW jumpers, jump out and freefall for awhile. We don't immediately pull.

Jumps that go according to plan have jumpers seeking adequate separation distance from others, slowing down, waving off etc. It is only when jumpers screw up that we need this priority list to shoot thru our brains to get us to act and save ourselves.

Jumps are 'You are dead until you save yourself. For the first 45-70 seconds, we have fun turning points. Then we decide to save ourselves.'

The other comment is to get gear that operates properly if you do the higher speed type jumps. aka - do not overload mains, reserves or harnesses.
.

lasse  (Student)

Jun 16, 2004, 10:04 PM
Post #9 of 11 (1295 views)
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Re: [billvon] Amending the pull priority list [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If you're going to do that it would have to be:

1. Slow down to the correct speed
2. Pull
etc.

Slowing down has to come before the rest if damage is to be avoided. But that seems like a bad thing to put second; I would amend it to "do not exceed the rated limits of your gear" and then keep the pull stuff in its original order.
Pulling has to be done if death is to be avoided. A head down pull has better survival chances than a nopull so pull has to be top priority.

Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jun 17, 2004, 9:26 AM
Post #10 of 11 (1214 views)
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Re: [lasse] Amending the pull priority list [In reply to] Can't Post

>Pulling has to be done if death is to be avoided. A head down pull
>has better survival chances than a nopull so pull has to be top priority.

I agree, but like I said, if you want to stick to that you shouldn't exceed the limits of your gear. It's a decision you have to make _before_ the jump; what you decide on the ground or in the plane has a lot to do with the options you keep when you're at 700 feet in freefall. It's like asking "But what if I have a malfunction on my main, and I'm jumping a reserve I can't land in these winds?" A better place to deal with such a problem is before you get on the plane, by making sure you _do_ have a reserve you can land under all conditions.

petetheladd  (D License)

Jun 18, 2004, 7:30 AM
Post #11 of 11 (1135 views)
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Re: [MakeItHappen] Amending the pull priority list [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I think your proposition implicitly indicates an incorrect interpretation of the priority list.

The list of
1) pull
2) pull at the correct altitude
3) pull at the correct altitude with stability

is not a list of what you do in order on a jump from the start of a jump to its conclusion.

It is a list of the bare minimum actions to do before you land, crash or hit the ground at a high rate of speed. It is not a priority task list of things to do in such-n-such order from exit to landing. It is a priority list of what you must do before landing.

I think this list is something that is pushed to the fore front of the minds of both students and low time jumpers by the more experienced/instructor crowd.

The idea being these jumpers are more likely to need a definitive plan up front[due to lack of experience] if things start going wrong.

Additionally, I believe more experienced skydivers implicitly try to keep this in the back of their minds because when the poop goes down and we are maybe innovating someway to fix a situation[ maybe under high stress ] we have something relativly simple to reference back on [ similar to something like the hard deck concept ].

The list was something that goes way back.
I'm just pondering the value of updating this list as skydiving has evolved so very far from when this list was initially concieved.

PTL

P.S. Pull will always be numero uno, without the pull, your number is almost always, as a certainty, up

 
 
 


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