Sky diving attitudes..mostly a lot of cool, decent people, friendly and willing to offer some great info and jump with.... and then there are those prolific few who can't help themselves...sucks to have attitude!
(This post was edited by jaybo on Jan 6, 2004, 9:45 AM)
Can we maybe agree that having someone try to give you advice that is outside their scope of experience is annoying?
Be that because they only have 50 jumps of that type (either as they are a newbie or because they have only done RW and tandem instead of FF(eg)) or because of any other of a multitude of reasons such as commenting technically on something outside of their vocation.
If we widen out the issue like that, is that a principal that people would agree with?
Here perhaps what Wrongway has done is to apply that principal to a specific person in a specific instance. Is it that specific instance itself that people don’t agree with?
(This post was edited by mr2mk1g on Jan 6, 2004, 9:12 AM)
Can we maybe agree that having someone try to give you advice that is outside their scope of experience is annoying?
Be that because they only have 50 jumps of that type (either as they are a newbie or because they have only done RW and tandem instead of FF(eg)) or because of any other of a multitude of reasons such as commenting technically on something outside of their vocation.
If we widen out the issue like that, is that a principal that people would agree with?
Here perhaps what Wrongway has done is to apply that principal to a specific person in a specific instance. Is it that specific instance itself that people don’t agree with?
That is EXACTLY my point!!! For instance, I should not be giving RW coaching, because I don't have much RW experience. The only reason I ran the post by TM's is because they're who I've personally had experience with the issue in the past. I meant no harm to those here rightfully defending their job or area, because it's not a post about them or even to TM's specifically, even though I was a jackass and posted it that way, I didn't mean it that way. Only to those people who give coaching or advice or whatever you call it to newbies on a subject that is outside their area of expertise. That's all I'm saying.
I really am sorry I worded that wrong, I meant no offense to anyone. Can you guys forgive me?
Hey man, I can see what you are trying to say, but definitely need to check the wording.(like you stated and apologized for...so please, everyone relax!!!!) Most TMs that I have met are multifaceted, meaning they are knowledgeable in other areas besides tandems, hell, my FF coach is a tandem master. I can understand not wanting to be told how to do something by someone who you don't think is qualified giving you advice in an area that you feel more knowledgeable in.(If that made any sense?!?) So far, I haven't experienced it in skydiving...but I am sure I will...and I am sure others have as well...Personally, I take it all in and absorb as much as possible...and BTW...I tend to just ignore the shit that people tell me whose opinions I don't value......
Dude - you are having a rough day today in a couple postings with stuff being taken not as intended - my sympathies go out to you.
Maybe a break and a couple rewrites on the next post before posting are in order. (On the other hand, I'm no expert on written communication and wouldn't want to give advice there )
That's the problem with providing examples, the message is lost.
wrongway, if it makes you feel any better, I understood what you were trying to say in your first post. unfortionately, some people read it as a TM bash, and got really angry. He's apoligized guys, cmon lets discuss what he was trying to get at: "people with a lot of experience all in one discipline, trying to tell someone else whos doing a different discipline what to do."
most of the time I think it would be rude to start telling people what to do if you don't know squat about it, unless its safety related, and then I'm for it.
people with a lot of experience all in one discipline, trying to tell someone else whos doing a different discipline what to do."
I've had folks ask me about video flying. I have not a damn clue about it, except what I see my video guys do on tandems. So I'm usually telling them to talk to XXXX (which ever video guy is near).
Or people will ask me about some sort of rigging question. I'm not a rigger. I have a reasonable amount of knowledge in regards to gear, but I am not a rigger. So the conversation usually ends up "You need to talk to XXXX (what ever rigger is near), but here's what I think it is and why." Or I'll take the person to one of the riggers, have him/her present their question, I'll tell the rigger what I think the answer is, then the rigger corrects/explains/whatever. That way I can learn from it too.
Basically, I'm doing my best never to stop learning, I like to ask questions, I like presenting alternate ideas (devil's advocate) to get people to explain why in a different manner (which helps me learn and usually helps them get a better understanding of what they're explaining).
Heh, a while back I was accused of damn near "badgering" a very very experienced TM. When someone else asked that TM about the "situation" he didn't even know what they were talking about, he said "David was asking a lot of questions and trying to get my opinions in a lot of different aspects of tandem jumps..."
I read your letter and I read a few more past Ron's and I think Ron got it about right.. I am a TM and I worked my ass off to get that rating. I fly anything and everything, flat, vrw,crw or what you got.. I like reading some of your post, but you lost me by slamming instructors. If you have a thing for a few guys out there, then approach them and state your feeling, I hope that if I upset others they come straight to me about the problem. All I can ask is how does your foot taste? Think first bro, talk to indivduals and don't throw us all in a group. I am a TM, but I am also an Instructor, SDU COACH and the USPA did not give me that rating, I had to earn it
I read your letter and I read a few more past Ron's and I think Ron got it about right.. I am a TM and I worked my ass off to get that rating. I fly anything and everything, flat, vrw,crw or what you got.. I like reading some of your post, but you lost me by slamming instructors. If you have a thing for a few guys out there, then approach them and state your feeling, I hope that if I upset others they come straight to me about the problem. All I can ask is how does your foot taste? Think first bro, talk to indivduals and don't throw us all in a group. I am a TM, but I am also an Instructor, SDU COACH and the USPA did not give me that rating, I had to earn it
Like I said bro, I meant in NO WAY to slam instructors, and I felt really bad about it when I accidentally did. Sorry man, I honestly meant nothing towards you or any instructors. I know you guys worked your asses off for that, and you know much more about the sport than I do. I was just trying to make a point, and severely fucked up in making an example for it.
Thats bullshit. No one should be able to brag. There are plenty of guys out there who are awesome and they dont say a word to anyone. Why should anyone be able to brag? If you feel the need to brag, then just shutup.
Thats bullshit. No one should be able to brag There are plenty of guys out there who are awesome and they dont say a word to anyone. Why should anyone be able to brag? If you feel the need to brag, then just shutup.
Then I guess Chuck Yeager, Grissom...ect should just shut up then?
When a guy with 5 jumps brags to his buddies thats cool. When he brags to a guy with 1,000 its not so cool.
Since you have no info on your profile...I can't relate to much to you on this.
Bragging is not all bad...I know several skydivers that brag...The difffernence is can they back it up. If they can let them go ahead.
If not then they should expect to be called to the carpet on it.
Thats bullshit. No one should be able to brag. There are plenty of guys out there who are awesome and they dont say a word to anyone. Why should anyone be able to brag? If you feel the need to brag, then just shutup.
I don't think there is anything wrong with bragging as long as you can comprehend the difference between pride in what you do or just did and being conceded. I'm just happy that I suck at everything! "Jack of all trades and master of .....not a thing!) Hey Wrongway.... Way to go in manning up to your mistakes. Hey Ron.....Damn boy, you go!
Bragging is not all bad...I know several skydivers that brag...The difffernence is can they back it up. If they can let them go ahead.
Thats not the point. There are shitloads of guys that can back it up but they dont say anything. Like you stated earlier, I am also against an attitude in this case. Bragging is not necessary and I think you are an ass if you do so.
And good point about bragging vs being conceded....Luckily I have been told I am both.
To me there is a big difference between bragging and being conceited (can i call you a bad speller ron?). After i do something totally cool in the air, i call my mom and tell her all about it, that can be considered bragging. I guess i view being conceited as thinking you are better than someone. I don't think i'm better than my mom, but she does get impressed/excited when i tell her about my jumps. Or maybe i just don't know what the fuck i'm trying to say....
(This post was edited by sunshine on Jan 6, 2004, 11:30 AM)
And good point about bragging vs being conceded....Luckily I have been told I am both.
To me there is a big difference between bragging and being conceited (can i call you a bad speller ron?). After i do something totally cool in the air, i call my mom and tell her all about it, that can be considered bragging. I guess i view being conceited as thinking you are better than someone. I don't think i'm better than my mom, but she does get impressed/excited when i tell her about my jumps. Or maybe i just don't know what the fuck i'm trying to say....
Oh thats the difference, kind of like bragging about being able to spell better than someone else by ...Nevermind (sarcasm intended in a fun way!) P.S. Get back to work Ron!
Thats kinda the point - "to brag" is a synonym of "to boast" which is: "To speak of with excessive pride"
I guess the keyword is "excessive" ie if you can do it, it can't really be bragging... unless you talk about it to excess, in which case it is.
Perhaps peoples impression of a braggart (by the dictionary definition) is less uniform than I had imagined. Fair enough, I thought most would agree with my impression, (which is less than favourable), but then perceptions are subjective so who am I to argue with those of another.
Just so long as braggarts recognise how a significant proportion of the population is going to percieve them.
something I learned from hanging out with martial artists for fifteen years:
People who brag do so not to convince others of their skill, but to convince themselves. Those who are truly confident in their own abilities have no need to seek glory in the eyes of others.
There are people in every sport or discipline of this one that think they are "gods". Hell, there are a couple of people who may think that way about me (they haven't figured out the truth yet).
You? Nah, people don't think that way about you. They might think you're Godawful.
Just kidding there, Art. You can say all you want becuase you have thousands and thousands of jumps in all sorts of disciplines, fly your canopy like a pro, do everything in this sport well, and have absolutely no attitude about it. More jumpers could learn a thing or two from you and your friends.
Like I said bro, I meant in NO WAY to slam instructors, and I felt really bad about it when I accidentally did. Sorry man, I honestly meant nothing towards you or any instructors. I know you guys worked your asses off for that, and you know much more about the sport than I do. I was just trying to make a point, and severely fucked up in making an example for it.
In Reply To
Man, stop apologising and trying to explain. Your original post left some room for misinterpretation...though I didn't think to such a great degree...and you clarified and apologised early on. Anyone still crying is either not reading your follow-ups or is just looking to hop on the bitch bandwagon. And you didn't, "Severely fuck up". You just weren't completely clear. Quit being so hard on yourself. Obviously, there are plenty of others who are doing a really fine job of that.
) So far, I haven't experienced it in skydiving...but I am sure I will...and I am sure others have as well...Personally, I take it all in and absorb as much as possible...and BTW...I tend to just ignore the shit that people tell me whose opinions I don't value...
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