Forums: Skydiving: General Skydiving Discussions:
Countries with AAD rules

 


Rover  (D License)

Jan 5, 2009, 2:09 AM
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Countries with AAD rules Can't Post

Had a guy from the States turn up at the DZ today from the States with 6000+ jumps and I had to tell him that he couldn't jump because AADs are compulsory in New Zealand and he didn't have one. Thought it would be an idea to help travelling jumpers if there was a registry of countries on this website that AADs are compulsory - starting with New Zealand.


(This post was edited by Rover on Jan 5, 2009, 2:11 AM)


jurgencamps  (D License)

Jan 5, 2009, 2:22 AM
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Re: [Rover] Countries with AAD rules [In reply to] Can't Post

Belgium


piisfish

Jan 5, 2009, 2:40 AM
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Re: [Rover] Countries with AAD rules [In reply to] Can't Post

France
Spain


Baksteen  (C 708753)

Jan 5, 2009, 3:08 AM
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Netherlands (up to C-licence)


diablopilot  (D License)

Jan 5, 2009, 11:17 AM
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Re: [Rover] Countries with AAD rules [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
AADs are compulsory - starting with New Zealand.

When did that happen? They were not when I visited.


mrbiceps  (D License)

Jan 5, 2009, 12:19 PM
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Re: [diablopilot] Countries with AAD rules [In reply to] Can't Post

you need 500 jumps and E license in order to be able to jump without aad in australia.


swilson  (C License)

Jan 5, 2009, 12:57 PM
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Re: [mrbiceps] Countries with AAD rules [In reply to] Can't Post

Norway requires either an AAD or an RSL.

Apparently one is as good as the other. Somehow.


mccurley  (E 663)

Jan 5, 2009, 2:04 PM
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Re: [diablopilot] Countries with AAD rules [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it's been about two years now.
Personally I like the Aussie rule better.
Most of my involvement is in judging comps and a lot of POPs stuff. Seems unfair to make a guy who has lots of jumps and lots of time in the sport go get a new rig which can handle the AAD, when his existing rig is airworthy.
I believe a few have quit, or have seriouly considered quiting the sport because of this rule.
It would have been better to have a grandfather clause for the oldtimers like they did when helmets were made compulsory in Ice Hockey


diablopilot  (D License)

Jan 5, 2009, 3:24 PM
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Re: [mccurley] Countries with AAD rules [In reply to] Can't Post

It's not something I'd expect from NZ. Guess I'm not skydiving on my next visit.


lippy  (D 30348)

Jan 5, 2009, 7:58 PM
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Re: [Rover] Countries with AAD rules [In reply to] Can't Post

Peru


TrickyDicky  (C 103196)

Jan 7, 2009, 6:40 AM
Post #11 of 25 (13333 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Countries with AAD rules [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
France
Spain

I dont think Spain have a rule. Skydive Empuria insists you should have one, but at skydive spain (nr Seville) you dont have to have one.


piisfish

Jan 7, 2009, 7:00 AM
Post #12 of 25 (13325 views)
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Re: [TrickyDicky] Countries with AAD rules [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
France
Spain
I dont think Spain have a rule. Skydive Empuria insists you should have one, but at skydive spain (nr Seville) you dont have to have one.

according to the spanish federation :
11.7 SISTEMA DE ACTIVACIÓN AUTOMÁTICA
Todos los paracaidistas deberán de saltar con un Sistema de Activación Automática (AAD) del paracaídas de reserva, instalado y mantenido según las especificaciones del fabricante, excepto cuando realicen saltos de Vuelo en Formación con Campana.


JohanW  (D 86318)

Jan 7, 2009, 8:07 AM
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Re: [piisfish] Countries with AAD rules [In reply to] Can't Post

"All skydivers must jump an Automatic Activation System (AAD) of the reserve parachute, installed and maintained according to manufacturer's specifications, except when they jump in Flight Training Campana."

Thank you, Google Translate.

I suppose that's CRW. Why I would need one for PA or CP more than for CRW, I don't know, but they didn't ask me and I didn't ask them.

Maybe Sevilla isn't a member of the Spanish NAA but a USPA affiliate only? (Empuria is USPA but may well be Spanish NAA also.) Or maybe they don't bother enforcing this particular rule for foreign skydivers who don't have to have them under their own rules?

Edit: Actually, Empuria waived for a friend of mine who did not have an AAD in his dedicated swoop rig when he was there specifically for a beach boogie. They may have gone outside the rules, the rules may not have existed at that time, and I think he was told he could only swoop the beach, not jump at the regular dropzone as well. Also, yes, he was a foreigner, he was permitted to jump without under his own national rules, he did not know beforehand (all of them found out when he turned up), and first and foremost, it was in another country and a long time ago. Tongue

More edit: Sevilla may be BPA rather than USPA.


(This post was edited by JohanW on Jan 7, 2009, 8:35 AM)


piisfish

Jan 7, 2009, 3:38 PM
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Re: [JohanW] Countries with AAD rules [In reply to] Can't Post

I think they do actually waive them for events such as beach boogie, king of swoop etc (I might be wrong), but now with newer versions of water resistant and swoop resistant AAD's the possibilites to jump with a "ultima ratio" backup are increased.

edit to add : yes, vuelo de formacion con campana is CReW


(This post was edited by piisfish on Jan 7, 2009, 3:39 PM)


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jan 8, 2009, 3:11 PM
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Re: [JohanW] Countries with AAD rules [In reply to] Can't Post

Maybe Sevilla isn't a member of the Spanish NAA but a USPA affiliate only?

......................................................................

USPA affiliation means nothing for DZs outside the United States, because they never get inspected by USPA officials.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jan 8, 2009, 3:15 PM
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Re: [Rover] Countries with AAD rules [In reply to] Can't Post

The Canadian Sports Parachuting Association has stubbornly resisted requiring AADs for anyone except students and tandems.
However, several large DZs have set their own for standards for AADs.
Most of the big DZs in Quebec require AADs for everyone.
Niagara Skydive, Alberta Skydivers and Pacific Skydivers all require AADs.

Personally, I would prefer to see some sort of grandfather clause. For example, if you survived 1,000 skydives before Cypres was invented (1991) then you should be allowed to jump without an AAD.


(This post was edited by riggerrob on Jan 8, 2009, 6:36 PM)


MightyMouse  (D License)

Jan 8, 2009, 4:02 PM
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Re: [mrbiceps] Countries with AAD rules [In reply to] Can't Post

Op regs in Australia require that an AAD be used by holders of 'A', 'B' or 'C' licenses. Holders of a 'D' license must have an RSL fitted if they don't have an AAD, 'E' license jumpers are not required to have either an AAD or RSL. See regs 5.1.15 and 5.1.16
http://apf.asn.au/apf-op_regs.html


ReyNier

Jan 17, 2009, 6:58 AM
Post #18 of 25 (13105 views)
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Re: [JohanW] Countries with AAD rules [In reply to] Can't Post

We set up waivers for certain events like the Beach Boogie and the King of Swoop. For those events we usually exclude the AAD rule. Apart from that, I'm pretty sure that all DZ operating in Spain need to apply the AAD rule, 'doesn't matter if they are FAE, USPA, BPA ...


Andrewwhyte  (C 1988)

Jan 17, 2009, 9:54 AM
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Re: [ReyNier] Countries with AAD rules [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
. Apart from that, I'm pretty sure that all DZ operating in Spain need to apply the AAD rule, 'doesn't matter if they are FAE, USPA, BPA ...
So are you saying it is law?


skybill  (D 6009)

Jan 20, 2009, 6:01 PM
Post #20 of 25 (12997 views)
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Re: [Rover] Countries with AAD rules [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Rov,
So with the mandatory AAD rule, is NZ now "Bounceproof!!!!?????"


Arkade  (A 56740)

Nov 6, 2010, 5:57 PM
Post #21 of 25 (12778 views)
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Re: [skybill] Countries with AAD rules [In reply to] Can't Post

This rule in NZ is almost correct, if you jump at a NZSA dropzone then b licence and higher does not need a aad


Rover  (D License)

Nov 6, 2010, 11:16 PM
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Re: [Arkade] Countries with AAD rules [In reply to] Can't Post

How many NZSA DZs are there left now? Fuck all I suspect. Wink


Airman1270  (A 9459)

Nov 8, 2010, 8:20 PM
Post #23 of 25 (12628 views)
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Re: [mccurley] Countries with AAD rules [In reply to] Can't Post

...It would have been better to have a grandfather clause...
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

It would have been even better if these stupid rules were never imposed in the first place. So it's safer to force a visiting jumper to use borrowed gear? The whole premise is an absurd insult.

How many of these DZ's allow their customers to fly those real fast tiny mains?

The incident reports freguently involve people who are very current, jumping the best gear available. Many of these people use AAD's.

Cheers,
Jon S.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Nov 8, 2010, 9:26 PM
Post #24 of 25 (12614 views)
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Re: [Airman1270] Countries with AAD rules [In reply to] Can't Post

>So it's safer to force a visiting jumper to use borrowed gear?

If it saves a DZO from the cost and liability of a fatality, it might be, yes.

Years ago Buzz made AAD's at Brown mandatory because of a no-pull fatality. It was someone we all knew pretty well. He didn't want to go through that again - and I can't say I blame him.


erdnarob  (D 364)

Nov 9, 2010, 1:23 PM
Post #25 of 25 (12542 views)
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Re: [Rover] Countries with AAD rules [In reply to] Can't Post

Even if my rig is equipped with an AAD now I have never agreed to have the AAD required by a DZ, a federation or a country... I speak about licensed people here. Jumping with an AAD or not is a matter of personal choice. Advertise them, put posters inviting to wear them, recommend them, make a rap to promote them... but do not make a requirement to wear them. Last time I was at the PIA symposium at Reno it seems that 80% of the people were using them therefore where is the problem, soon or later the rest will follow. My concern about making them compulsory is that in the case of an AAD found to be the factor of somebody's death, what will be the legal position of the entity making them compulsory ? I know that we can debate that the pros of having an AAD takes over the cons. But I am more in favor to educate than to regulate.Unimpressed



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