Forums: Skydiving: General Skydiving Discussions:
Civilian jumps can earn a Parachutist Badge???

 

 

ElJosh  (A 51040)

Nov 11, 2007, 10:53 AM
Post #1 of 23 (6824 views)
Shortcut
Civilian jumps can earn a Parachutist Badge??? Can't Post

Has anyone heard of someone getting jump wings awarded via civilian sport jumping? I had one of my fellow sergeants tell me and a few of my soldiers that you could earn the Parachutist Badge because of our sport jumping. I think that he doesn抰 know what he is talking about but I didn抰 want to correct him without having more knowledge about it. Has anyone ever heard about this? The only thing I could do is look up the AR on it and from what I抳e read I think this sergeant抯 story is BS. From what I can read it looks like it wouldn抰 count, which is what I would think. I mean jumping a round is completely different from jumping a ram-air.
Here is the AR:
Army Regulation 600𤾄2

811. Parachutist badges
a. Three degrees of badges are authorized for award: Parachutist Badge, Senior Parachutist Badge, and Master
Parachutist Badge.
b. Eligibility criteria for each badge as set forth in paragraphs 812, 813, and 814.
c. Special eligibility for awards will be determined from the DA Form 1307 (Individual Jump Record) in the field
201 file section of the personnel records jacket. Each entry on this form will include pay period covered and initials of the personnel officer; the entry will be made only from a DA Form 1306 (Statement of Jump and Loading Manifest)completed by an officer or jumpmaster.
d. Jumps with civilian parachute clubs will not be counted in the number of total jumps required for each badge.
e. Award of the basic Parachutist Badge or advanced parachutist badges awarded by other U.S. Services may onlybe awarded if the Soldier meets the Army criteria for the badge.

Premier LouDiamond  (D 25931)
Moderator
Nov 11, 2007, 10:57 AM
Post #2 of 23 (6778 views)
Shortcut
Re: [ElJosh] Civilian jumps can earn a Parachutist Badge??? [In reply to] Can't Post

The short answer, is no. The only way you get silver wings on your chest is if you go to Airborne school.

ElJosh  (A 51040)

Nov 11, 2007, 11:06 AM
Post #3 of 23 (6770 views)
Shortcut
Re: [LouDiamond] Civilian jumps can earn a Parachutist Badge??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah that is what I was thinking too but I didn't want to call bs on his story. There is a small spread between the ranks of E-5 to E-8. He is a Master SGT and I'm just a SGT. I think I like my knees to much to go airborne. Besides that I like the term fun jump over the idea of a mandatory jump.
~El Josh AKA Ruby

redlegphi  (A License)

Nov 11, 2007, 11:39 AM
Post #4 of 23 (6754 views)
Shortcut
Re: [ElJosh] Civilian jumps can earn a Parachutist Badge??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, I did Airborne school first and it's both a completely different method of jumping from an airplane and a completely different way of teaching a person to jump from an airplane. I enjoyed Airborne school and my jumps there, but looking back on it and comparing it to my AFF course, I realize that the Army did their very best to suck all of the fun out of jumping. Also, I do enjoy my knees continuing to work, so I don't think I'll be volunteering for an Airborne unit anytime soon.

kallend  (D 23151)

Nov 11, 2007, 11:52 AM
Post #5 of 23 (6748 views)
Shortcut
Re: [redlegphi] Civilian jumps can earn a Parachutist Badge??? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I realize that the Army did their very best to suck all of the fun out of jumping.

My son (former 82nd Abn.) said the same thing.

In reply to:

Also, I do enjoy my knees continuing to work, so I don't think I'll be volunteering for an Airborne unit anytime soon.

My son's knees are indeed in bad shape.

shropshire  (C License)

Nov 11, 2007, 1:21 PM
Post #6 of 23 (6708 views)
Shortcut
Re: [LouDiamond] Civilian jumps can earn a Parachutist Badge??? [In reply to] Can't Post

I was given a nice set of metal Israeli wings a few years ago (as a civilian) after doing a demo jump to their militay - nice bunch of folks tooCool - I'm right proud of those wings too.

Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Nov 11, 2007, 1:33 PM
Post #7 of 23 (6703 views)
Shortcut
Re: [redlegphi] Civilian jumps can earn a Parachutist Badge??? [In reply to] Can't Post

>I enjoyed Airborne school and my jumps there, but looking back on it and
>comparing it to my AFF course, I realize that the Army did their very best
>to suck all of the fun out of jumping.

Interestingly, the Navy's freefall course is now nearly identical to civilian AFF - and the Army and Air Force are looking into the same sort of certification program. So the times may be a' changin.

Premier LouDiamond  (D 25931)
Moderator
Nov 11, 2007, 1:48 PM
Post #8 of 23 (6697 views)
Shortcut
Re: [billvon] Civilian jumps can earn a Parachutist Badge??? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
>I enjoyed Airborne school and my jumps there, but looking back on it and
>comparing it to my AFF course, I realize that the Army did their very best
>to suck all of the fun out of jumping.

Interestingly, the Navy's freefall course is now nearly identical to civilian AFF - and the Army and Air Force are looking into the same sort of certification program. So the times may be a' changin.

Apples and Oranges. Basic airborne school(where one earns the parachutist badge) is and will for the foreseeable future always be under a round parachute and with the exception of modernized round canopies, will continue to run the way it has since it's inception.

What you are referring to is the basic HALO program which is indeed undergoing some changes in the program of instruction and teaching methodology but is far from being an AFF course at this point.....unless the AFF program adds rucksacks, night jumps and O2 useWink However, I don't think we will see the Army HALO program (which is the proponent for this training), change its program as drastically as the Navy course any time soon.

Regardless of the type of canopy/training, both have had the fun excised from them.


(This post was edited by LouDiamond on Nov 11, 2007, 1:53 PM)

jumper03  (D License)

Nov 11, 2007, 4:23 PM
Post #9 of 23 (6624 views)
Shortcut
Re: [LouDiamond] Civilian jumps can earn a Parachutist Badge??? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
>I enjoyed Airborne school and my jumps there, but looking back on it and
>comparing it to my AFF course, I realize that the Army did their very best
>to suck all of the fun out of jumping.

Interestingly, the Navy's freefall course is now nearly identical to civilian AFF - and the Army and Air Force are looking into the same sort of certification program. So the times may be a' changin.

Apples and Oranges. Basic airborne school(where one earns the parachutist badge) is and will for the foreseeable future always be under a round parachute and with the exception of modernized round canopies, will continue to run the way it has since it's inception.

What you are referring to is the basic HALO program which is indeed undergoing some changes in the program of instruction and teaching methodology but is far from being an AFF course at this point.....unless the AFF program adds rucksacks, night jumps and O2 useWink However, I don't think we will see the Army HALO program (which is the proponent for this training), change its program as drastically as the Navy course any time soon.

Regardless of the type of canopy/training, both have had the fun excised from them.

Unless you training with ratboy....Laugh

but back on topic - what about foreign jump wings?
They tried to get me out to Federal Eagle and said I could get German wings.

Sounded good but I'm still grounded (and apparently they were to from the weather).

millertimeunc  (D 31152)

Nov 11, 2007, 8:13 PM
Post #10 of 23 (6541 views)
Shortcut
Re: [LouDiamond] Civilian jumps can earn a Parachutist Badge??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Or go through AM-490 at the AF Academy. That's how I got my wings! Smile


(This post was edited by millertimeunc on Nov 11, 2007, 8:15 PM)

jtval  (D 26340)

Nov 11, 2007, 8:50 PM
Post #11 of 23 (6518 views)
Shortcut
Re: [millertimeunc] Civilian jumps can earn a Parachutist Badge??? [In reply to] Can't Post

That's how I'll be getting mine too.

buff  (D 30567)

Nov 11, 2007, 9:38 PM
Post #12 of 23 (6497 views)
Shortcut
Re: [ElJosh] Civilian jumps can earn a Parachutist Badge??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey Ruby the answer is no! Willie can find you a round tho and I'll cut up your pan and make you some silver wings and we can have a pinning ceremony just for you.

That way you don't have to call BS and you get a set of wings, albiet fake ones.

lilchief  (D 78149)

Nov 12, 2007, 12:31 AM
Post #13 of 23 (6467 views)
Shortcut
Re: [jumper03] Civilian jumps can earn a Parachutist Badge??? [In reply to] Can't Post

[reply
but back on topic - what about foreign jump wings?
They tried to get me out to Federal Eagle and said I could get German wings.
You can get your Dutch wings at Texel. The course costs some 300 euro and consists of training and 5 SL jumps from an AN-2, or if the brits are there you may even get it from a DC-3. Just like it was during market garden, except getting shot atLaugh

You have to prove that you are active serviceman though.

Baksteen  (C 708753)

Nov 12, 2007, 12:36 AM
Post #14 of 23 (6467 views)
Shortcut
Re: [ElJosh] Civilian jumps can earn a Parachutist Badge??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Dutch military jumpers *can* earn their wings by training at civilian centres.

They have to complete the ground course, obviously, and make five static-line jumps to qualify.

ElJosh  (A 51040)

Nov 12, 2007, 5:23 AM
Post #15 of 23 (6432 views)
Shortcut
Re: [buff] Civilian jumps can earn a Parachutist Badge??? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Hey Ruby the answer is no! Willie can find you a round tho and I'll cut up your pan and make you some silver wings and we can have a pinning ceremony just for you.

That way you don't have to call BS and you get a set of wings, albiet fake ones.

I like your style Tat-her!Wink
~El Josh AKA Ruby

woodpecker  (C 106098)

Nov 12, 2007, 7:27 AM
Post #16 of 23 (6395 views)
Shortcut
Re: [lilchief] Civilian jumps can earn a Parachutist Badge??? [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been through that training and what a blast. You actually have two options to graduate with the same wings.

1) rounds
2) RAPS

The great thing about the RAPS is higher winds....I've done both and the rounds sure sit on the ground a lot more. Good school (run just like a civ. school) and great staff. I recomend it to any active duty who wants to get some military wings. Of course, you can only wear them on your messdress (unless your one of us lucky ones and went TDY to the school Tongue )

If anyone has any other questions about the school PM me...great times and I usually go back for a week a year to just fun jump.

Billy

ElJosh  (A 51040)

Nov 12, 2007, 8:03 AM
Post #17 of 23 (6389 views)
Shortcut
Re: [woodpecker] Civilian jumps can earn a Parachutist Badge??? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Of course, you can only wear them on your messdress (unless your one of us lucky ones and went TDY to the school Tongue )

If anyone has any other questions about the school PM me...great times and I usually go back for a week a year to just fun jump.

Billy


That doesn't make sense. If you are speaking about the US Army then I assume that you are refering our dress blues. I've been in 9 years now and "wings" are/wore worn on the BDU, DCU and the new ACU uniform. The only change has been the color and on the ACU the badge must be pinned on.

Also what is RAPS?



Edit:I just looked up RAPS. Billy is refering to the british system.


(This post was edited by ElJosh on Nov 12, 2007, 8:06 AM)

bigsapper

Nov 12, 2007, 9:15 AM
Post #18 of 23 (6366 views)
Shortcut
Re: Civilian jumps can earn a Parachutist Badge??? [In reply to] Can't Post

We made up our own.
No Longer A Dirty, Rotten, Stinkin' Leg!
Wink

http://www.dotnetconsultant.com/...kydive/vfw_shirt.jpg

woodpecker  (C 106098)

Nov 12, 2007, 11:51 AM
Post #19 of 23 (6317 views)
Shortcut
Re: [ElJosh] Civilian jumps can earn a Parachutist Badge??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry,

I'm in the AF so we call are "formal wear" a mess dress and thats the only uniform we can wear foreign jump wings on unless stationed in the country we recieved them (and were tdy) when we attended the class....though I do wear mine on my service dress as well. From my understanding as long as you have your commands commanders approval (geez thats a long title) its okay.

RAPS is jumping squares in NL. Sorry, been jumping in the UK and NL for past four years and some of the terminology stuck.

divnswoop  (D 18276)

Nov 12, 2007, 1:29 PM
Post #20 of 23 (6287 views)
Shortcut
Re: [billvon] Civilian jumps can earn a Parachutist Badge??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Interestingly, the Navy's freefall course is now nearly identical to civilian AFF - and the Army and Air Force are looking into the same sort of certification program.

You can include the Marine Basic course in that too...

riggerrob  (D 14840)

Nov 12, 2007, 7:01 PM
Post #21 of 23 (6225 views)
Shortcut
Re: [billvon] Civilian jumps can earn a Parachutist Badge??? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
>I enjoyed Airborne school and my jumps there, but looking back on it and
>comparing it to my AFF course, I realize that the Army did their very best
>to suck all of the fun out of jumping.

Interestingly, the Navy's freefall course is now nearly identical to civilian AFF - and the Army and Air Force are looking into the same sort of certification program. So the times may be a' changin.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

In this century, Canadian Air Force Search and Rescue Technicians adopted training methods and certification methods from the Canadian Sports Parachuting Association. Most of the instructors at the CSAR School hold CSPA Coach ratings, while the Chief Instructor is a CSPA Course Conductor. Their primary motivation was the reduced cost of doing refresher training out of civilian Cessnas instead of military Buffalos and Hercules.

In an ironic twist, I was never allowed to jump from Buffalos while in uniform, but a mere 18 years after retirement, was asked to assist some CSAR Instructors complete their CSPA Coach ratings. Part of that process included doing 6 jumps from a Buffalo!
Ironic!

riggerrob  (D 14840)

Nov 12, 2007, 7:09 PM
Post #22 of 23 (6223 views)
Shortcut
Re: [ElJosh] Civilian jumps can earn a Parachutist Badge??? [In reply to] Can't Post

It is easy for any member of the Canadian Armed Forces to convert his civilian A Certificate into a set of military jump wings. All he/she has to do is convince his/her commanding officer to allow him/her to attend Skyhawks training camp. A mere three weeks later he/she will emerge with genuine Canadian Army Basic Paratrooper Wings (red maple leaf).
All he/she has to do at the Canadian Army Parachute School is two weeks of push-ups followed by two days of jumping (typically five or six static-line jumps with ruck sack, rifle and snowshoes).

Premier LouDiamond  (D 25931)
Moderator
Nov 12, 2007, 11:37 PM
Post #23 of 23 (6198 views)
Shortcut
Re: Civilian jumps can earn a Parachutist Badge??? [In reply to] Can't Post

A good article on the history of the Parachutist badge can be found here

 
 
 


Search for (options)